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Re: What happens to knowledge and wisdom on Earth [Re: Icelander]
    #7361296 -

Quote:
Notendo said:
Quote:
It's hard to disagree with the kind of empty rhetoric Hubbard uses in that video.

I mean, sure, what a great idea! Let's not allow some kind of wisdom to be twisted around and used against humanity! I Agree with that!

So what's he talking about, really?





He's suckering people. He's saying don't trust anyone and then telling them to trust him.


Exactly.
Some people though apparantly can't see the turd for the bits of corn.
"All hail the turd, for it carries corn-goodness!"

If someone wants to be a turd hugger, that's their choice.
I'm not hugging any turds. I trust I can find corn WITHOUT turd ensconcement. Others can take there mana from somebody's ass if they want to. I'll find another source.

I don't have to go any further from this video to discredit it. It puts forward the erroneous assumption that knowledge is in limited supply and thus easily corrupted. Knowledge isn't obscure. Its all around us.


--------------------

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Re: What happens to knowledge and wisdom on Earth [Re: SCleROTiUM_LICK]
    #7361341 -

SCleROTiUM_LICK said:
Quote:
Notendo said:
Quote:
It's hard to disagree with the kind of empty rhetoric Hubbard uses in that video.

I mean, sure, what a great idea! Let's not allow some kind of wisdom to be twisted around and used against humanity! I Agree with that!

So what's he talking about, really?





He's suckering people. He's saying don't trust anyone and then telling them to trust him.


Exactly.
Some people though apparantly can't see the turd for the bits of corn.
"All hail the turd, for it carries corn-goodness!"

If someone wants to be a turd hugger, that's their choice.
I'm not hugging any turds. I trust I can find corn WITHOUT turd ensconcement. Others can take there mana from somebody's ass if they want to. I'll find another source.

I don't have to go any further from this video to discredit it. It puts forward the erroneous assumption that knowledge is in limited supply and thus easily corrupted. Knowledge isn't obscure. Its all around us.



Misinterpretation....easily done by someone self-admittedly confused.

Hubbard didn't say any of what you claim he did.


--------------------
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." ― Plato

"I communicate, therefore I am" - I

"Nature is ancient, but surprises us all." - Björk

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Re: What happens to knowledge and wisdom on Earth [Re: Pulsating]
    #7361635 -

Something you have likely never studied...yet profess to know all about...

I don't think anyone here claims to know all about Scientology, but it's not necessary to study something in depth to glean what it's about.

I've never immersed myself in communism, but I don't have to do that to know that it's a dead social system I want nothing to do with.

And I never met Hubbard or Stalin either, but I still have a pretty good idea what they were all about.

Also, there's plenty of evidence from former Scientologists (who ARE experts on the church) who had the presence of mind to extract themselves from that cult for me to make a well-informed judgment on the Church and its practices.

There are court judgments against the church that are public records exposing their crimes and their lies.

There are people who have been chased and harassed and frightened by aggressive church members when they spoke out against the church. The church even has a formal name for this ritual intimidation practice: Fair Game.

Hubbard wrote the following about Fair Game:

The homes, property, places and abodes of persons who have been active in attempting to: suppress Scientology or Scientologists are all beyond any protection of Scientology Ethics, unless absolved by later Ethics or an amnesty ... this Policy Letter extends to suppressive non-Scientology wives and husbands and parents, or other family members or hostile groups or even close friends. Fair game may be deprived of property or injured by any means by any Scientologist without any discipline of the Scientologist. May be tricked, sued or lied to or destroyed.

Meaning that for simply speaking out out against the church, the church can follow and scare the shit out of, and even INJURE my mother, sister, friends, and anyone else who knows me in an effort to force me to stop speaking the truth as I know it. That's fucked up.

In this regard, they are equivalent to the Taliban who also hurt people who disagree with their religion.

I don't have to know any more about the church beyond that ^^^ formal policy to know that it's a festering cesspool of superstition and aggression and I want nothing to do with it.

And finally, if you don't like what someone here says about the church, stop reading. If you tell anyone to "shut their rooster-holster" again, I'll ban you so you can think about this:

You don't start threads here then tell people who disagree with you to shut up. That's what the mumbo jumbo forum is for and Fair Game won't work here.

I'll move this thread to mumbo jumbo if you like. Just ask. Otherwise it can stay here open to debate.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: What happens to knowledge and wisdom on Earth [Re: Diploid]
    #7362161 -

Diploid said:
Something you have likely never studied...yet profess to know all about...

I don't think anyone here claims to know all about Scientology, but it's not necessary to study something in depth to glean what it's about.

I've never immersed myself in communism, but I don't have to do that to know that it's a dead social system I want nothing to do with.

And I never met Hubbard or Stalin either, but I still have a pretty good idea what they were all about.

Also, there's plenty of evidence from former Scientologists (who ARE experts on the church) who had the presence of mind to extract themselves from that cult for me to make a well-informed judgment on the Church and its practices.


I'm not talking about the collection of individuals known as the CHURCH of Scientology (or CoS). I am talking about the SUBJECT of Scientology...which is contained in the books and recorded lectures of LRH. 40+ million words worth.

Would you take a college class on a subject when the professor had never opened 1 book on the subject...but instead was giving a class based on info from what people said about what people said about the subject?

Also, how does being a "former member" of a *group* qualify someone as an expert on a *subject*? I'd really like to know. I always thought being an expert on a subject required study of theory and practical application...not just hanging around other group members.

"Yeah, I hung out with a few physicists once....and now I'm an expert on physics..."

Quote:
There are court judgments against the church that are public records exposing their crimes and their lies.


Yep, you're right there have been judgments against the Church of Scientology.

Also important to consider is the FACT that the American Legal system is ALWAYS in search of the truth. Right?

And when you say "their crimes", are you referring to every single Scientologist? Or is that just a generality?

Once again, I am not talking about the CHURCH of Scientology....but instead the SUBJECT of Scientology. Two totally distinct and separate entities.

Quote:
There are people who have been chased and harassed and frightened by aggressive church members when they spoke out against the church. The church even has a formal name for this ritual intimidation practice: Fair Game.


Did you know that ANYONE with an internet connection can edit wikipedia? Did you also know that ANYONE, with the proper materials can create a website and publish ANYTHING they desire to publish?

Quote:
Hubbard wrote the following about Fair Game:

The homes, property, places and abodes of persons who have been active in attempting to: suppress Scientology or Scientologists are all beyond any protection of Scientology Ethics, unless absolved by later Ethics or an amnesty ... this Policy Letter extends to suppressive non-Scientology wives and husbands and parents, or other family members or hostile groups or even close friends. Fair game may be deprived of property or injured by any means by any Scientologist without any discipline of the Scientologist. May be tricked, sued or lied to or destroyed.

Meaning that for simply speaking out out against the church, the church can follow and scare the shit out of, and even INJURE my mother, sister, friends, and anyone else who knows me in an effort to force me to stop speaking the truth as I know it. That's fucked up.


That's an incorrect interpretation of Fair Game. Speaking out against something isn't trying to suppress it.

But tell me, if someone was trying to destroy you and your family, would you try to destroy them first or would you just get walked on?

Quote:
In this regard, they are equivalent to the Taliban who also hurt people who disagree with their religion.


More "theys"? Just who are you talking about when you say "THEY"

Interestingly, *one* of the characteristics of a Suppressive Person, is the use of generalities...

If you ever wondered if there are evil people on this planet, there are...and there are also characteristics that you can identify an Suppressive Person (SP) by.

http://faq.scientology.org/page39.htm

An SP has the majority of those characteristics.

Quote:
I don't have to know any more about the church beyond that ^^^ formal policy to know that it's a festering cesspool of superstition and aggression and I want nothing to do with it.


Once again, I'm not talking about the CHURCH of Scientology but the SUBJECT of Scientology. 2 Totally separate and distinct entities.

Quote:
And finally, if you don't like what someone here says about the church, stop reading. If you tell anyone to "shut their rooster-holster" again, I'll ban you so you can think about this:


The individual in question shut himself up because there was nothing more to say? Correct?

That same individual who I suggested shut her "rooster holster" initiated the exchange by sending derogatory private messages. I instructed this person not to contact me anymore when I promptly received 2 more derogatory private messages.

Once again I am talking about the SUBJECT of Scientology....not the CHURCH of Scientology.

Quote:
You don't start threads here then tell people who disagree with you to shut up. That's what the mumbo jumbo forum is for and Fair Game won't work here.


According to the data you C&Pd from Wiki, Fair Game has to do with injuring people and property, suing, tricking, lying to and destroying...Right?

I am just posting words on an internet message board. How is that anywhere near Fair Game?

Quote:
I'll move this thread to mumbo jumbo if you like. Just ask. Otherwise it can stay here open to debate.


...You 'da Mod.



--------------------
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." ― Plato

"I communicate, therefore I am" - I

"Nature is ancient, but surprises us all." - Björk

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Re: What happens to knowledge and wisdom on Earth [Re: Pulsating]
    #7362170 -

i'm not talking about the collection of individuals known as the CHURCH of Scientology (or CoS). I am talking about the SUBJECT of Scientology...which is contained in the books and recorded lectures of LRH. 40+ million words worth.

nobody cares and nobody is listening anymore so whats the fucking point? your just embarrasing yourself.

your going around in circles and you obviously fail to understand our POV. pay attention to what has been expressed and maybe you will get it.


--------------------

Strive to be more than a codified manifestation of a generalized technological consciousness

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Re: What happens to knowledge and wisdom on Earth [Re: Pulsating]
    #7362180 -

I am talking about the SUBJECT of Scientology

The SUBJECT of Scientology is codified in Hubbard and the church's writings. Other than what some former members have exposed, most of those writings are secret.

That's the church's problem, not mine. I can only go on by what is available for me to read.

Also, how does being a "former member" of a *group* qualify someone as an expert on a *subject*?

How else does one become an expert other than to be a member of the group or to read their secret writings?

The people I'm calling experts are former HIGH-RANKING members of the church. People who paid lots of money to ascend the through the various 'levels' then finally quit when reason overcame irrational superstition.

And when you say "their crimes", are you referring to every single Scientologist? Or is that just a generality?

I'm referring, for example, to the #2 person heading the church, Hubbard's wife, who was convicted of felonies done under church sanction and Hubbard himself who was never convicted but named by the court as a co-conspirator.

Are you saying that the #2 person heading the church does not represent the church? :confused:

But tell me, if someone was trying to destroy you and your family

How does speaking one's opinion about the church equate to destroying anyone or their family?

and there are also characteristics that you can identify an Suppressive Person (SP) by

Suppressive Person?? This must be one of the church's secret nonsense terms. :rofl2:

That same individual who I suggested shut her "rooster holster" initiated the exchange by sending derogatory private messages.

Then deal with them in private messages, not in the forum. There is an ignore button instituted for this exact purpose. Use it.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: What happens to knowledge and wisdom on Earth [Re: onlynow]
    #7362182 -

onlynow, chill out. Don't lower yourself to the level of flaming and personalisms. If you have something to say about the topic, go for it, but leave the poster out of it.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: What happens to knowledge and wisdom on Earth [Re: Diploid]
    #7362212 -

trust me man, i am chill.  just because i use harsh words don't mean nothing.  he failed to understand my POV and i just had to make that clear.

pardon the flaming and personalisms, just stating what i see :sad:


--------------------

Strive to be more than a codified manifestation of a generalized technological consciousness

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Re: What happens to knowledge and wisdom on Earth [Re: onlynow]
    #7362242 -

If I wanted to know Ron L. Hubbard's view on the knowledge and wisdom on earth I would watch Battlefield Earth. Luckily for me I'm not a fan of that kind of science fiction.

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Re: What happens to knowledge and wisdom on Earth [Re: Diploid]
    #7362247 -

Diploid said:
I am talking about the SUBJECT of Scientology

The SUBJECT of Scientology is codified in Hubbard and the church's writings. Other than what some former members have exposed, most of those writings are secret.

That's the church's problem, not mine. I can only go on by what is available for me to read.

Also, how does being a "former member" of a *group* qualify someone as an expert on a *subject*?

How else does one become an expert other than to be a member of the group or to read their secret writings?

The people I'm calling experts are former HIGH-RANKING members of the church. People who paid lots of money to ascend the through the various 'levels' then finally quit when reason overcame irrational superstition.

And when you say "their crimes", are you referring to every single Scientologist? Or is that just a generality?

I'm referring, for example, to the #2 person heading the church, Hubbard's wife, who was convicted of felonies done under church sanction and Hubbard himself who was never convicted but named by the court as a co-conspirator.

Are you saying that the #2 person heading the church does not represent the church? :confused:

But tell me, if someone was trying to destroy you and your family

How does speaking one's opinion about the church equate to destroying anyone or their family?

and there are also characteristics that you can identify an Suppressive Person (SP) by

Suppressive Person?? This must be one of the church's secret nonsense terms. :rofl2:

That same individual who I suggested shut her "rooster holster" initiated the exchange by sending derogatory private messages.

Then deal with them in private messages, not in the forum. There is an ignore button instituted for this exact purpose. Use it.



Did you even *read* (not just look at) my response to your post?


--------------------
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." ― Plato

"I communicate, therefore I am" - I

"Nature is ancient, but surprises us all." - Björk

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Re: What happens to knowledge and wisdom on Earth [Re: trent]
    #7362397 -

trent said:
If I wanted to know Ron L. Hubbard's view on the knowledge and wisdom on earth I would watch Battlefield Earth. Luckily for me I'm not a fan of that kind of science fiction.



The movie, unfortunately, sucked. NOTHING like the book. The book is quite good and if you want some excellent Sci-Fi with social commentary, "The Mission Earth" series (10 books) is quite good. Then you can try to judge Scientology using that too.

And why would you watch a movie to gain an understanding of a totally disrelated subject?

That is precisely what is wrong with this unenlightened culture we live in!


--------------------
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." ― Plato

"I communicate, therefore I am" - I

"Nature is ancient, but surprises us all." - Björk

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Re: What happens to knowledge and wisdom on Earth [Re: Pulsating]
    #7362767 -

Mod edit: personalism deleted.

Edited by Diploid (09/02/07 10:55 PM)

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Re: What happens to knowledge and wisdom on Earth [Re: onlynow]
    #7362816 -

How enlightened to fight over... enlightenment :smirk:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: What happens to knowledge and wisdom on Earth [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7362836 -

MushroomTrip said:
How enlightened to fight over... enlightenment :smirk:




"Through the ugliness of mankind we try to shine.
Against stupidity of mankind we try to fight.
As our wages we get the lunacy of others.
Our nourishment. Atrocities of the world.
Our nourishment. Joy of the world.” - KUKL


--------------------
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." ― Plato

"I communicate, therefore I am" - I

"Nature is ancient, but surprises us all." - Björk

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Re: What happens to knowledge and wisdom on Earth [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7362868 -

Mod edit: personalism deleted.

Edited by Diploid (09/02/07 10:55 PM)

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Re: What happens to knowledge and wisdom on Earth [Re: onlynow]
    #7363069 -

onlynow, I'm not going to warn you again. Drop the personalisms. If you can't debate the subject without insulting someone, you will be banned from this forum so you can go insult people in OTD.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: What happens to knowledge and wisdom on Earth [Re: Diploid]
    #7363092 -

insult?

ban me :hippie:


--------------------

Strive to be more than a codified manifestation of a generalized technological consciousness

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Re: What happens to knowledge and wisdom on Earth [Re: Diploid]
    #7363110 -

Quote:
If you ever wondered if there are evil people on this planet, there are...and there are also characteristics that you can identify an Suppressive Person (SP) by.

http://faq.scientology.org/page39.htm

An SP has the majority of those characteristics.


Good lord, that alone convinced me that Scientology is not my thing. The description of an "evil" person comes very close to a cynic. I am by no means a cynic, but I definitely think they have an important role in society. I am also against any philosophy that tries to pinpoint an evil individual: ideas that become rhetoric that become violence on people who express a certain viewpoint. No viewpoint should ever be suppressed.

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Re: What happens to knowledge and wisdom on Earth [Re: gooddrugguy]
    #7363232 -

gooddrugguy said:
Quote:
If you ever wondered if there are evil people on this planet, there are...and there are also characteristics that you can identify an Suppressive Person (SP) by.

http://faq.scientology.org/page39.htm

An SP has the majority of those characteristics.


Good lord, that alone convinced me that Scientology is not my thing. The description of an "evil" person comes very close to a cynic. I am by no means a cynic, but I definitely think they have an important role in society. I am also against any philosophy that tries to pinpoint an evil individual: ideas that become rhetoric that become violence on people who express a certain viewpoint. No viewpoint should ever be suppressed.



Well, comfy for you or not, there are individuals dedicated to evil in this world...

That's why there are engineered wars (innocent people dying) for monetary profit, man-made, body/brain rotting drugs being given to infants and children for "diseases" which don't exist, torture, and many other unsatisfactory items which are part of our culture which I am sure you can think of.

It's all about increasing one's Knowledge, Responsibility and Control.

Indeed, the true evil ones of this world don't want to be found out.


--------------------
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." ― Plato

"I communicate, therefore I am" - I

"Nature is ancient, but surprises us all." - Björk

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: What happens to knowledge and wisdom on Earth [Re: Pulsating]
    #7363563 -

Mod Edit: flame deleted.


--------------------

Strive to be more than a codified manifestation of a generalized technological consciousness

Edited by Diploid (09/03/07 06:12 AM)

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