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Invisibleappleorange
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Registered: 12/30/07
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Re: Anonymous vs Scientology [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #8018874 - 02/13/08 06:42 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Hue,

1. How is religion any different from philosophy?

2. Can philosophy rob of us freedom? (a simple yes or no)

3. Can religion offer us freedom? (a simple yes or no)


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Offlinebodhiman777
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Re: Anonymous vs Scientology [Re: bmiles]
    #8019254 - 02/13/08 07:55 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

the only thing i believe in is my ability to doubt, but that's besides the point


that was your answer


--------------------
... and so forth


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Invisiblebmiles
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Re: Anonymous vs Scientology [Re: bodhiman777]
    #8019288 - 02/13/08 07:58 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

wow, you can get out of just about any argument with that!
:thumbdown:


--------------------
Never go with a hippy to a second location.


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Offlinebodhiman777
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Re: Anonymous vs Scientology [Re: bmiles]
    #8019375 - 02/13/08 08:13 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

i'm sorry, i don't believe the vid. i wasn't there, i didn't see it happen, and those references were were in tiny blurry type. plus i'm a workin man, and i don't have time to investigate all those references.

anything that a small collective of members did under the guise of their chosen cult that harmed or killed people should be investigated, i'm not denying that. but a full scale protest of the entire religion seems to me like a desperate grab for media attention, and will fail in its goals. if pedophilia didn't tear down the catholic church, and blowing yourself up didn't outlaw islam, this will merely EMBOLDEN the scientologists.


--------------------
... and so forth


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Invisiblebmiles
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Re: Anonymous vs Scientology [Re: bodhiman777]
    #8019387 - 02/13/08 08:15 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

bodhiman777 said:
but a full scale protest of the entire religion seems to me like a desperate grab for media attention, and will fail in its goals. if pedophilia didn't tear down the catholic church, and blowing yourself up didn't outlaw islam, this will merely EMBOLDEN the scientologists.




very good point :thumbup:


--------------------
Never go with a hippy to a second location.


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Invisibletruekimbo2
Cya later, friends.
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Re: Anonymous vs Scientology [Re: bmiles]
    #8020769 - 02/14/08 01:01 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

well i mean scientologist do lots of other crazy shit.

like a big part of it i forget the name, but the thing they use the e-meter for... i think its called auditing.

during the process of auditing, you're supposed to tell them about all the negative stuff that happens in your life... one of the things they do is the write all that shit down and put it in a file, and if you ever leave and criticize them they'll take all that shit and tell your neighbors and your boss and stuff.

Also supposedly when you reach the upper levels you get superpowers, like thats the whole point of auditing, getting to a higher state of being so you can control time and matter and shit.

During natural disasters they try and recruit people, and they intefere with mental health workers...

there is alot more stuff, i guess you've heard about they're tendency to sue like crazy.

i know in the 80's hubbard's wife and couple of his higher up followers were convicted of breaking into and bugging government offices... Canada sued them or something for "infiltrating government offices" or something like that...

it goes on and on... as a religion, or a set of self help techniques they're not terrible. the reason they deserve to be picked on is because they are hyper aggressive against people who try and criticize them, specifically people who were once part of the organization and try and spread information about the negative sides of scientology.


--------------------
You can check the last post in my journal for contact info.


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Invisibletruekimbo2
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Re: Anonymous vs Scientology [Re: truekimbo2]
    #8020780 - 02/14/08 01:05 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

oh yeah and as far as the protests go...

this is different. except for a few protestfags we're doing this more to give physical expression to am egoless, faceless power than for the specific purpose of trying to harm scientology through media exposure.


--------------------
You can check the last post in my journal for contact info.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Anonymous vs Scientology [Re: appleorange]
    #8021071 - 02/14/08 04:55 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Great questions there. I will give you my opinion.
Quote:

1. How is religion any different from philosophy?




Religion demands that we follow it blindly cutting us off from free will and abdicating our individuality to the religions hierarchy. A philosophy can influence us without demanding that we identify completely with it. However, if you approach it as religion then you are back in the same boat...it becomes your religion.

Quote:

2. Can philosophy rob of us freedom? (a simple yes or no)




YES. If it is approached like religion it does.

Quote:

3. Can religion offer us freedom? (a simple yes or no)




NO. Saying "I am a Christian, Scientologist, Muslim, etc..." precludes this.

Note: These are only my opinions and I don't truly wish to tell anyone else what to think. I am just sharing my opinion. I am mostly full of shit, and listening to it could be hazardous to your health and sanity, BUT it works well enough for me.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Anonymous vs Scientology [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #8021109 - 02/14/08 05:48 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I also would like to note that I think that attacking anything that is not a threat to your well being and health is just wasting energy. One can "not agree" without attacking. The end result of an attack is that you keep the subject of the attack in the scope of your attention. It then becomes a source of obsession and even fear. It becomes your new religion. Why would you want to stay focused on things that you do not like? Why would you care that other people do not share your preferences? Is it not more productive to focus our attention on that which promotes our well being, therefore surrounding ourselves with such things? Just my measly 2 cents...


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Invisibletruekimbo2
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Re: Anonymous vs Scientology [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #8021132 - 02/14/08 06:08 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

i'm not sure thats correct.

if you're crossing the street, ignoring cars and thinking of kittens doesn't make the cars any less dangerous

ignoring a cold or cancer doesn't make it get better (though ignoring it may make you feel better)

ignoring starving kids in africa doesn't make them less starving... and so on.

some things in life you have work with, through or around, even if its a small part, or takes a long time.

not that i think scientology is one of those things, i already listed my own reason for being excited about the protests.


--------------------
You can check the last post in my journal for contact info.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Anonymous vs Scientology [Re: truekimbo2]
    #8021207 - 02/14/08 07:08 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I don't think you read my post well.
Quote:

attacking anything that is not a threat to your well being and health



Diseases and cars ARE threats to your well being. I would NOT ignore them, but I would NOT try to attack a car. This would be irrational and dangerous. A disease that was attacking me would have to be dealt with.

How do starving children have to do with attacking things? Is attacking Scientology like helping starving children in some way. Do these children need violence (attack is a violence) to be fed? I don't understand your point.

I never said that some things did not have to be worked around, but that does not mean to attack it.

I think it curious that you feel that Scientology is not worthy of tolerance.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Invisibleappleorange
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Re: Anonymous vs Scientology [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #8021701 - 02/14/08 09:59 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Hue.

Not all religions demand that you follow them blindly. Religion is just an organized form of philosophy.

How is following the philosophy of Nietzsche any different from the Christians who follow the 10 commandments? There is no difference at all.


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Registered: 07/11/06
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Re: Anonymous vs Scientology [Re: appleorange]
    #8021773 - 02/14/08 10:21 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

appleorange said:
How is following the philosophy of Nietzsche any different from the Christians who follow the 10 commandments? There is no difference at all.




what


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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Invisibleappleorange
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Re: Anonymous vs Scientology [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #8021801 - 02/14/08 10:28 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

aside from the discrepancies in the philosophies themselves.

you are still following/incorporating a belief into your life.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Anonymous vs Scientology [Re: appleorange]
    #8021818 - 02/14/08 10:32 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Not all religions demand that you follow them blindly.




These religions are? I don't know of any. I know many people who give only lip service to the religion, but that is just being a hypocrite and it is not following a religion. Religions demand action of some sort. All of them do. I didn't expect agreement here. People as a whole do not like freedom. The very fact that there are people here attacking Scientologists for ideological reasons demonstrates that.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Anonymous vs Scientology [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #8021839 - 02/14/08 10:37 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
I also would like to note that I think that attacking anything that is not a threat to your well being and health is just wasting energy. One can "not agree" without attacking. The end result of an attack is that you keep the subject of the attack in the scope of your attention. It then becomes a source of obsession and even fear. It becomes your new religion. Why would you want to stay focused on things that you do not like? Why would you care that other people do not share your preferences? Is it not more productive to focus our attention on that which promotes our well being, therefore surrounding ourselves with such things? Just my measly 2 cents...




I'll take your 2 cents to anyone else's dollar any day.:thumbup: Great post.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Anonymous vs Scientology [Re: Icelander]
    #8021850 - 02/14/08 10:39 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I am an expert at attacking things irrationally. Coming to this conclusion was a no brainer for me...it just took time to see it.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Registered: 07/11/06
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Re: Anonymous vs Scientology [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #8021857 - 02/14/08 10:43 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Nietzsche's philosophy instructs against blind following, so a blind follower of Nietzsche's philosophy would be a paradoxically inattentive reader of philosophy.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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Invisibleappleorange
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Re: Anonymous vs Scientology [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #8021985 - 02/14/08 11:18 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
Nietzsche's philosophy instructs against blind following, so a blind follower of Nietzsche's philosophy would be a paradoxically inattentive reader of philosophy.




So a non-blind follower of Nietzsche would be an attentive reader of philosophy?

I think the word religion scares people, it has some negative connontation to it. Give Schoepenhauer's philosophy an apartment where people meet up on Friday nights to discuss his works and you got yourself a religion pretty much. It's people congregating and discussing a philosophy which if seems beneficial to their lives, will apply the principles and ideologies of it.


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Anonymous vs Scientology [Re: appleorange]
    #8022152 - 02/14/08 12:05 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

My only point is most religions (Christianity in particular) demand blind following. Most philosophers (Nietzsche in particular) do not.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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