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Offlinedruglord
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Intelligence vs Wisdom
    #7578783 - 10/30/07 10:36 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Intelligence is being adept in a particular state of mind; that is, with a particular perspective (way of processing thoughts and sensory data) and set of values.

Wisdom is knowing about different states of mind, having the ability to move among them, and having enough intelligence about them to be able to understand the relative advantages of each.

Intelligent people who are not wise tend to be fearful because they are unbalanced: they have all their eggs in one basket--in one state of mind.

------
Useful characterization or not?


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OfflineBooby
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Re: Intelligence vs Wisdom [Re: druglord]
    #7579199 - 10/31/07 01:12 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

so you're saying that a muslim need not be fearful in a room ful of rednecks watching 911 reruns. Or (insert your own comparable here)


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OfflineBooby
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Re: Intelligence vs Wisdom [Re: druglord]
    #7579272 - 10/31/07 02:08 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

druglord said:

Wisdom is knowing about different states of mind, having the ability to move among them,




Quote:

Booby said:
so you're saying that a muslim need not be fearful in a room ful of rednecks watching 911 reruns. Or (insert your own comparable here)




In the example I present, I suppose it is in recognizing that it is our own religion that is the threat to our wellbeing.

In otherwords a Christian is in danger amongst Iraqui terrorists because they identify themselves with being Christian? So actualy Religion is detrimental to freedom.


Edited by Booby (10/31/07 02:10 AM)


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Offlinedruglord
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Re: Intelligence vs Wisdom [Re: Booby]
    #7579665 - 10/31/07 07:50 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Booby said:
so you're saying that a muslim need not be fearful in a room ful of rednecks watching 911 reruns. Or (insert your own comparable here)




The wise person accepts the fact that his life can be changed drastically at any time by hostile rednecks or anything else. He has already come to terms with change as a fact of life and is always ready to face whatever circumstances he ends up in.

Being beaten up so bad that you're incapacitated or dead doesn't have to be interpreted as bad. It's just change.


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Offlinemoon_glue
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Re: Intelligence vs Wisdom [Re: druglord]
    #7579683 - 10/31/07 07:59 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

wisdom and intelligence are same goddamn thing. quit splitting hairs.


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Offlinejonathanseagull
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Re: Intelligence vs Wisdom [Re: moon_glue]
    #7579808 - 10/31/07 08:40 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

moon_glue said:
wisdom and intelligence are same goddamn thing. quit splitting hairs.




I completely disagree. Intelligence is based in knowledge. Wisdom is based in experience and trascendence of the traps of conceptual and preconceived knowledge.


--------------------
Loving in truth, and fain in verse my love to show, That the dear She might take some pleasure of my pain: Pleasure might cause her read, reading might make her know, Knowledge might pity win, and pity grace obtain.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Intelligence vs Wisdom [Re: druglord]
    #7581316 - 10/31/07 03:31 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

The word Wisdom is described differently in different traditions. In the Old Testament, Wisdom is personified as a Feminine 'consort' with God [YHVH] who has co-existed with God. In much later Jewish Kabbalism, Wisdom [Chokma] is given a Masculine identity. King Solomon is deemed the wisest man on Earth (having asked God for Wisdom and for that he is given the most incredible worldly rewards).

The New Testament identifies Wisdom with Christ, but other ancient Christian writings identify Wisdom [Sophia] as Feminine and as co-equal with Christ, whose Earthly manifestations are Jesus and Mary. James 3:15 says "This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish...," in reference to a type of worldly wisdom, but Jesus is said to have said " ...Be ye therefore wise as serpents and harmless as doves” in Matthew 10:16. The symbol of the serpent embodies both devilish and divine Wisdom. Naasene Gnostics even identified Christ with the serpent as the embodiment of these dark and light aspects of Wisdom - a Conjunction of Opposites.

In Vajrayana Buddhism, Wisdom [Prajna] is one with Compassion [Karuna] which is 'skillful means' (to manifest Wisdom), both of which are often personified as Feminine and Masculine beings in which Compassion is in the sexual embrace of Wisdom [Yab-Yum].

Wisdom exists in these traditions as metaphysical Reality but is also spoken of in psychological terms as the human mind which becomes suffused, as it were, with Pure Awareness, either described in Gnostic Christianity as Fulness [Pleroma] or in Buddhist terms as Emptiness [Sunyata]. Either term applies equally even as Infinitely large and Infinitesimally small both lose their qualifiers in the face of Infinity. Pure Awareness may be called Bodhisattva in Buddhism, which destinguishes one who is then identified during selfless acts as a Bodhisattva. A Christian Gnostic is similarly suffused with Pure Awareness or Gnosis which contributes to the description of being a Gnostic. Pure Awareness predominating over the egoistic mind is a transcendental psychological condition, a 'spiritual mind' in shorter words. Wisdom thus defined is the Awareness which underlies thinking, and thinking is the usual meaning of intelligence. Thinking is directed towards form even if only symbolic form as in numbers. Wisdom is Awareness of Totality which relativizes the world of form and lends equanimity and discrimination to human decision-making. We often call those informed with such discrimination and equanimity 'wise.'


Edited by MarkostheGnostic (10/31/07 06:22 PM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Intelligence vs Wisdom [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #7581340 - 10/31/07 03:37 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Marko's, you're a regular wise guy.:heart:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Intelligence vs Wisdom [Re: Icelander]
    #7581896 - 10/31/07 06:30 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk. *Gulp*


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Intelligence vs Wisdom [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #7582004 - 10/31/07 06:55 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

OK that's it. We're takin little Max out to get his candy. :hellfire:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineBooby
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Re: Intelligence vs Wisdom [Re: druglord]
    #7582886 - 11/01/07 03:04 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

druglord said:
Quote:

Booby said:
so you're saying that a muslim need not be fearful in a room ful of rednecks watching 911 reruns. Or (insert your own comparable here)




The wise person accepts the fact that his life can be changed drastically at any time by hostile rednecks or anything else. He has already come to terms with change as a fact of life and is always ready to face whatever circumstances he ends up in.

Being beaten up so bad that you're incapacitated or dead doesn't have to be interpreted as bad. It's just change.




I could say that experiences I enjoy = 'Good'. and experiences I don't enjoy = 'Bad'.

Certainly (I assume) there are people who enjoy being beaten or tortured to the point of being crippled. That doesn't fit into my personal category of worthwhile experiences. I'm not going to argue you out of that predicament if you think that is what it takes to make you feel whole.


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OfflineBooby
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Re: Intelligence vs Wisdom [Re: druglord]
    #7582933 - 11/01/07 03:53 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Let's say some people really would like to torture people but really don't want to be tortured themselves. They may try to convince someone that it is in their best interest to allow others to torture them without reciprocating the experience.

I suppose there does exist some temptations that will allure a 'victim' into that position. It could be an agreement between those two parties, such as "You allow me to get my pleasure in return for...whatever."

That's one possible scenario. Perhaps someone can think of other scenario's in this context.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Intelligence vs Wisdom [Re: druglord]
    #7582989 - 11/01/07 05:16 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

druglord said:
Intelligence is being adept in a particular state of mind; that is, with a particular perspective (way of processing thoughts and sensory data) and set of values.

Wisdom is knowing about different states of mind, having the ability to move among them, and having enough intelligence about them to be able to understand the relative advantages of each.

Intelligent people who are not wise tend to be fearful because they are unbalanced: they have all their eggs in one basket--in one state of mind.

------
Useful characterization or not?




well
I think it's a good definition.
and it can be wrapped around all intelligent creatures as well.
but the attitude about wisdom, intelligence and fear might be fixed a bit early.

the wisdom part, IMO, relates to a kind of META knowing,
a knowing about knowing,
in which a kind of patient orientation method finds things by immersing associatively,
then shifting states to retry (this is the humble knowing about knowing
- i.e. knowing that knowing is limited, dependent upon perspective), then returning to evaluate-reprocess what clues have been found.

the shifting of states is a bit like sending scouts into the mountains, or down through caves, or out into space.
the wisdom part is mostly patiently waiting and taking care of ordinary life in the mean time,
or carefully staying in communication.

even a dog can be wise.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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