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Offlinebodhiman777
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Re: Anonymous vs Scientology [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #8013437 - 02/12/08 02:54 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

YawningAnus said:
so when someone knows a lot about a certain topic in here, they shouldnt chime in?

see, you are certain that anyone that defends, or at least doesnt shout about how much they hate them, is a member.
If I was a member, I wouldnt try to hide it. it isnt something to be ashamed of, IMO. I just dont agree with a lot of the doctrine.

but I spent a lot of time with scientologists... years. and the widely held attitude towards them is based off of mob mentality.

I dont see really where I am defending them... all I am doing is adding some logic into this argument.
"ohhh tom cruise talking.... scary!".
"they sue people!"
"burn the witches!"

that entire video is nothing more than Tom Cruise talking about a scientology course. it isnt a recruiting video... and chances are, it was shown probably once at some quarterly meeting.

I mean, you guys are sitting here ignoring half of the story to rationalize and justify your hatred of them.
Imagine that you are in school and about half the people in school makes a serious effort to fuck with you... and then one day you snap and just start beating the shit out of all these people... it is kind of like looking at that kid and saying "OMG, what a bully".

do you deny that there are lots of people out there who wish immense malicious intent upon scientology and its members? go look up the history and progression of scientology in society and see who threw the first rock.
if you would just let them go about life like any other religion, you wouldnt see such a backlash from it.




you guys? hey now, lay off the generalizing.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Anonymous vs Scientology [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #8014204 - 02/12/08 06:09 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

> that entire video is nothing more than Tom Cruise talking about a scientology course.

I didn't bother watching it. I wasn't trying to argue a point, but was really curious why you hold the position you do towards the group. Most people that know as much as you do about the group are either members or part of the burn the witch crowd. Your position is something of an enigma to me that I am trying to understand.


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Invisiblebmiles
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Re: Anonymous vs Scientology [Re: bodhiman777]
    #8014213 - 02/12/08 06:12 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

bodhiman777 said:
anonymous is small time and deserves no respect.
what harm has scientology done that is any worse than the Christian reign of terror, the crusades, the inquisitions, witch burning, etc...?
why not go after religions that unjustly persecute women and mutilate their genitalia?
or the grown bearded men who spend time kissing a brick wall rather than bettering their violent environment?
all religions encourage ignorance, but some have ruined more lives than others. pick your battles wisely, because they don't really mean anything anyway.





there is a youtube video that i am too lazy too look up
that shows how scientologists kill people.
they take medicine away from people,
and one lady was even gnawed on by rats in a hotel room,
taken to a far off "scientologist approved hospital"
and she died in transit, when she could have been
helped at the hospital that they took her from.


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Invisibleappleorange
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Re: Anonymous vs Scientology [Re: bmiles]
    #8014239 - 02/12/08 06:18 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Yawning Anus,

I'm sure most scientologists are dumb, but I really doubt they are dumb enough to believe in that Xenu alien shit.

Can you tell me what they actually believe in? Their website is really vague and the same with all their videos too.

*For the sake of this argument. Scientology seems a lot less threatening than christianity in my opinion. Who am I to tell others what to believe?


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Invisiblebmiles
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Re: Anonymous vs Scientology [Re: appleorange]
    #8014280 - 02/12/08 06:28 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

ignore the crappy editing/music:


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Never go with a hippy to a second location.


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Anonymous vs Scientology [Re: Seuss]
    #8014450 - 02/12/08 07:04 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> that entire video is nothing more than Tom Cruise talking about a scientology course.

I didn't bother watching it. I wasn't trying to argue a point, but was really curious why you hold the position you do towards the group. Most people that know as much as you do about the group are either members or part of the burn the witch crowd. Your position is something of an enigma to me that I am trying to understand.




well, thats simple. I have seen both sides... the good and the bad.
and it isnt as good as Tom Cruise will tell you, but it isnt as bad as Xenu.net will tell you.
it actually has some worthwhile philosophy in it,IMO. as you know, my mother is OT7, but she no longer practices, and my dad got to what is called the L's. My mother had a very nice experience, but my dad feels financially cheated, even though to this day he uses "techs" for business and personal life.
so I have seenit from the inside, the outside and almost every other perspective possible and the one thing I can emphatically say is that people are there to better their lives, and they are almost all happier, healthier and more positive.

I really could care less if someone hates scientology, but my thirst for debate compels me... and when misinformation is presented, I cant morally justify idly sitting by.


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Anonymous vs Scientology [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #8014485 - 02/12/08 07:12 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

like this statement...

Quote:

there is a youtube video that i am too lazy too look up
that shows how scientologists kill people.
they take medicine away from people,
and one lady was even gnawed on by rats in a hotel room,
taken to a far off "scientologist approved hospital"
and she died in transit, when she could have been
helped at the hospital that they took her from.




I cant help but laugh at this stuff. notice the gradual incline of how misinformation can lead to something as serious as someone claiming that someone was gnawed on by rats.
most likely, they heard from someone that heard from someone (etc.) about how one of the many dubiously changed coroners reports mentioned cockroach bites found on the body.... and add some time and the game telephone, it turns into rats gnawing on people.
the funny thing is that there was no evidence of cockroach bites... the coroner that changed their report 3 times without any reexamination of the body (but after talking to certain people) decided to put that in there... which was later shown to be grounds for bias and incompetency.

and again, the presiding judge said that the evidence shows the contrary of the prosecutions stance that she was forced to go to another hospital farther away, or restrained against her will.

all it takes is one person to tell you about something you have never really heard about, and spin it in such a negative way that they too ultimately hate it.. for no other reason than second hand opinion.


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OfflineGinseng1
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Re: Anonymous vs Scientology [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #8014506 - 02/12/08 07:17 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I kinda feel Tom and what he says to be honest. He's a creepy bastard but whatever... I like him as an actor.

I walked into a scientology church once. Started talking to lady about stuff. I gotta say I was most unimpressed. I would ask certain questions and she would tell me to buy one of the DIANETICS books. Pfft...


Edited by Ginseng1 (02/12/08 07:18 PM)


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Offlinebodhiman777
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Re: Anonymous vs Scientology [Re: bmiles]
    #8014640 - 02/12/08 07:40 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

oh, well if you have sources i stand corrected. i too believe every video i see on youtube.


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Offlinejizmaster

Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 346
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Re: Anonymous vs Scientology [Re: bodhiman777]
    #8014689 - 02/12/08 07:47 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

I thought Yawninganus had a point so i had a look at the other side of the story, not that i know much about the scientologists are bad side. Guess i hadn't bothered because it seemed impossible to believe either side.

Anyway i read about the story and philosophy of it on wikipedia, the dianetics page and some of the really long scientology page. Was interesting and seemed reasonable as a theory (though i don't know about the whole operating thetan thing!).

Basically the idea is to remove undesireable unconscious thought processes, allowing the conscious mind to work more efficiently. Surely if the goal was to raise people's level of consciousness in the hope of benefiting society the best way to go about it would be to try and prove it works.

If it can't be proven, it shouldn't be claimed as any more than a theory. Claiming it as a miracle cure with no evidence seriously limits it's usefulness, as most people won't believe it.

Yawninganus, why does your father feel financially cheated? It's true then that they charge a shitload of money? I really don't understand why, what are they doing with it? What do they really need to do besides present the theory?


Edited by jizmaster (02/12/08 07:57 PM)


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Anonymous vs Scientology [Re: appleorange]
    #8014813 - 02/12/08 08:18 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

appleorange said:
Yawning Anus,

I'm sure most scientologists are dumb, but I really doubt they are dumb enough to believe in that Xenu alien shit.

Can you tell me what they actually believe in? Their website is really vague and the same with all their videos too.

*For the sake of this argument. Scientology seems a lot less threatening than christianity in my opinion. Who am I to tell others what to believe?




that is kind of hard to explain in such general terms. we would both be better off if I answered individual questions regarding aspects of belief/doctrine.
Xenu is, I believe, mentioned once (or atleast the story is.. maybe his name more within taht story) in all of the writings. While your average member wont ever even hear about Xenu... I think those that are exposed to the story take it about as seriously as someone saying the world is a billion trillion years old.
It is akin to the story of Noah's Ark, in that it is a venture into explaining pre history.
now, scientologists do believe that this solar system, and primarily earth are like a prison, or the loony bin of the universe... and that we have been unjustly isolated because we are abstract thinkers and artists and such.
it is really hard to explain it without going into a hundred different aspects of the doctrine because it all builds upon each other.

but even all of this is merely the "Genesis" (compared to christians, not the literal meaning) of Scientology, and isnt, to my knowledge, even applicable or have any real bearing on the analytical part of scientology.

Scientolgoy basically means, "the study of knowledge"... so much like psychiatry, they have broken down, step by minute step, the most basic things that seem like common sense. A major part of Scientology is based around retention of knowledge and full comprehension.

I dont even know where to begin with the question, so many places to start.

you know what, I will make a thread where anyone is free to ask me any questions they want about scientology beliefs. Chances are it will get derailed, I will be accused of trying to spread the religion, people will keep asking ridiculous, off topic questions... but oh well. I figure that lately there has been a lot of focus from the boards on it, so might as well if people are truly interested.

I cant start it right now, but maybe later tonight. if in the meantime, this causes other questions to arise, ask them here and I might be able to get around to them tonight.


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Offlinejizmaster

Registered: 02/04/08
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Re: Anonymous vs Scientology [Re: jizmaster]
    #8014826 - 02/12/08 08:20 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Maybe L Ron did have good intentions, if i was interested, and i am a bit now, i would download some of his books for free. Screw giving money to the COS, i really don't understand why they charge money, do the poor not deserve their help? If it worked surely people would pass it on to their friends and family. Seems a far more effective way of helping people.


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Anonymous vs Scientology [Re: jizmaster]
    #8014893 - 02/12/08 08:35 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Im not sure, since I really havent checked out the prices of books, but I believe the satellite books like "learning how to learn" and "the ups and downs of life" (i think those are what they are called) are priced the same as any other self help book.

With the more "advanced" stuff, it is a primer to a course you take, so you cant really seperate the cost of the materials from the course... it would kind of be like saying your History book in college cost you 5k.

oddly enough, there are many scientolgoy business courses... in fact, my dad used a mangament model from one of those courses that he still firmly believes in. he is an optometrist and used it in his vision therapy firm.

but there are also scholarships and charities and free auditing. I dont know how much they are given out, but I do know one person that received a free course and another person that was absolved of all debt after a month long stay at narconon.


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: Anonymous vs Scientology [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #8015055 - 02/12/08 09:05 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Has no one noticed that Tom says literally NOTHING AT ALL? "We just gotta do it" "you're either in there or you're out of the arena" "when you know, you know" etc. He doesn't once identify what problems Scientology claims to have insight into or exactly what "helping people" involves. That video is 10 minutes of aimless trap flapping.


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Invisiblebmiles
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Re: Anonymous vs Scientology [Re: bodhiman777]
    #8015136 - 02/12/08 09:20 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

bodhiman777 said:
oh, well if you have sources i stand corrected. i too believe every video i see on youtube.



i didn't say i believed everything on there,
but do you really think everything on there was made up?


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OfflineCosIsAcult
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Anonymous protest March 15th 08 [Re: bodhiman777]
    #8016323 - 02/13/08 03:40 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Is everyone protesting on March 15th? I am concerned that the Scientology church in New Orleans isnt getting enough attention. Anonymous doesnt even have it listed as a picket location on Project Chanology. This is the churches info:

3524 Canal St
New Orleans, LA 70119
(504) 484-3454


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Offlinebodhiman777
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Re: Anonymous vs Scientology [Re: bmiles]
    #8016929 - 02/13/08 10:16 AM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

bmiles said:
Quote:

bodhiman777 said:
oh, well if you have sources i stand corrected. i too believe every video i see on youtube.



i didn't say i believed everything on there,
but do you really think everything on there was made up?




the only thing i believe in is my ability to doubt, but that's besides the point.
your questions run in circles and i have not the energy to keep spinning with you.
anyone who decides to protest the church of Scientology is constructing an evil that is only there for them to battle against.
that's fine, keep up with your silly little protest. its a freedom you're given by a country that wages "unjust" wars all over the world.

while you were all being noble protesting scientology, humans beings (you know.. the thing you are) died attempting to impose their ideals on an accepting world. good luck with your fight.

http://icasualties.org/oif/Details.aspx


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Invisiblebmiles
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Re: Anonymous vs Scientology [Re: bodhiman777]
    #8018137 - 02/13/08 03:23 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

you still didn't answer my question,
and i only asked one.


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Invisibleappleorange
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Re: Anonymous vs Scientology [Re: bmiles]
    #8018148 - 02/13/08 03:26 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

bodhiman, aren't you that guy on youtube who reached nirvana?


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Anonymous vs Scientology [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #8018566 - 02/13/08 05:11 PM (15 years, 11 months ago)

Using your attention to either focus on identifying with Scientology or identifying with attacking Scientology is a waste of attention. It's another religion. Religion = identification and dogma. Both of these things rob one of freedom if it is given our attention. Attacking it and participating in it are the same thing.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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