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One pointed versus awareness meditation
    #7186117 -

I don't have much instruction in meditation. I basically started when going to a Zen group on a few occasions and the priestess said just watch your breath, and when thoughts arise return attention to the breath. Do what works for you, watch it at one point in the body or follow it all the way through. This is how I have always meditated - following the breath all the way through, and including the parts of the body that are gently moving from the breath within my attention.

Would one pointed meditation be watching the breath at one specific spot? I have tried watching just at the tip of my nose but every time I do this I end up hunching my back and shoulders, making me out of breath. Or is one pointed meditation supposed to be on a static object/point?

I was wondering why someone might choose either awareness meditation or one pointed meditation over another. I just do what I do because it feels good when the breath gets real slow and I am really comfortable sitting still even though my legs have gone numb. What else should I know to get really good at meditation?

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Re: One pointed versus awareness meditation [Re: Epigallo]
    #7186327 -

don't get upset with yourself but resume correctly
unhunch
continue the meditation
be aware of returning to the single point and continue.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: One pointed versus awareness meditation [Re: Epigallo]
    #7186530 -

bradley said:
I don't have much instruction in meditation. I basically started when going to a Zen group on a few occasions and the priestess said just watch your breath, and when thoughts arise return attention to the breath. Do what works for you, watch it at one point in the body or follow it all the way through. This is how I have always meditated - following the breath all the way through, and including the parts of the body that are gently moving from the breath within my attention.


ive found silence meditation to be much more effective. "listen" to the silence, the more this is done the less attached to thought you become. if done in the morning there will be bigger gaps in your thought process. these gaps are awareness surfacing, the light of being is shining through the mask of the ego. it is realization breaking through the bounds of attachment to what is not now.

silence is the fastest IME in understanding awareness. understanding is key, feel the gap in your mind and watch it grow.


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Strive to be more than a codified manifestation of a generalized technological consciousness

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Re: One pointed versus awareness meditation [Re: onlynow]
    #7186557 -

i used to do breathing meditation, but when i switched to silence i noticed more change in awareness. im pretty sure this is because when concentrating on breath i am focussing on an external process, and this prevents me from being more aware of my inner process.

i am more introverted though, if you want more extroversion meditating on something external would probably work better.


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Strive to be more than a codified manifestation of a generalized technological consciousness

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Re: One pointed versus awareness meditation [Re: onlynow]
    #7186795 -

listenning to listening becomes part of meditation.
it can be the focus, but keep following the breath.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: One pointed versus awareness meditation [Re: redgreenvines]
    #7187173 -

redgreenvines said:
don't get upset with yourself but resume correctly
unhunch
continue the meditation
be aware of returning to the single point and continue.


so how should my experience of meditating on a single point differ from following the whole breath?

if my attention begins to incorporate things into the background of my focus (such as my whole breath) should I return all of my concentration to the tip of the nose?

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Re: One pointed versus awareness meditation [Re: Epigallo]
    #7187553 -

having the relaxed sublime awareness of everything in the background is very good
exemplary in fact
this is terrific conditioning for what might be called suspension or non-reactive immersion,
what is in the background physical space and in the background mental space is going to flux as moments proceed, it is ideal to be able to admit this honestly and passively without engaging.
as if you could engage but are anchored to the chosen centering activity.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: One pointed versus awareness meditation [Re: Epigallo]
    #7188525 -

One pointed meditation is focusing so intently on a single object (breath, a thought, whatever), that all hindrance thoughts are literally forced away. Consider this scenario: stare at a flame for 10 minutes and notice what happens. Your peripheral vision disappears and all that you can see is the flame. This meditation is useful and can develop many interesting things, however, its very difficult to carry into the active world (while working, driving, whatever). That is because it takes a great deal of energy to stay with your object of meditation while doing other activities.

If you wish to carry whatever benefits you gain from meditation into the active world, you should practice a different meditation. That meditation is the meditation the Buddha taught (he taught only one meditation, but hundreds of meditation objects).

For learning about the Buddha's meditation, I HIGHLY recommend: http://www.dhammasukha.org

The Bhikku of this website developed the meditation technique directly from Buddhist suttas and this stuff works extremely well after only a few days (not years) of correctly practicing.

This is not one pointed concentration at all, it is allowing the hindrance thoughts to arise, seeing how they arise, and weakening their foundations until they no longer arise again. Check it out.


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As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.

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Re: One pointed versus awareness meditation [Re: psyka]
    #7188680 -

psyka said:
One pointed meditation is focusing so intently on a single object (breath, a thought, whatever), that all hindrance thoughts are literally forced away. ....... seeing how they arise, and weakening their foundations until they no longer arise again. ....


I just want to mention that pressing very forcefully or
imagining that you can weaken the foundations of thought
or attemting to prevent recurrance of thought
are not the right attitude.

observing the arisings is possible - being gentle and keeping focussed in an unruffled way are possible too.

the other stuff is makebelieve. associative mind does not really have a forcefull appendage, the foundation of thought is mind itself, and preventers of thoughts are also not really available without creating repression which is a complex.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: One pointed versus awareness meditation [Re: redgreenvines]
    #7189295 -

:thumbup:

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Re: One pointed versus awareness meditation [Re: onlynow]
    #7189822 -

"meditation is not concentration: it is relaxation, let-go.[12] It is a state of watchfulness that has no ego fulfilment in it, something that happens when one is in a state of not-doing. There is no "how" to this, because "how" means doing – one has to understand that no doing is going to help. In that very understanding, non-doing happens."

"Nature has come to a point where now, unless you take individual responsibility, you cannot grow. More than this nature cannot do. It has done enough. It has given you life, it has given you opportunity; now how to use it, it has left up to you.

Meditation is your freedom, not a biological necessity. You can learn in a certain period of time every day to strengthen meditation, to make it stronger – but carry the flavour of it the whole day.

First, while you are awake – the moment you wake up, immediately catch hold of the thread of remaining alert and conscious, because that is the most precious moment to catch the thread of consciousness. Many times in the day you will forget – but the moment you remember, immediately start being alert. Never repent, because that is a sheer wastage of time. Never repent, "My God, I forgot again!"

In my teachings there is no place for any repentance. Whatever has happened is gone, now there is no need to waste time on it. Catch hold again of the thread of awareness. Slowly, slowly you will be able to be alert the whole day – an undercurrent of awareness in every act, in every movement, in everything that you are doing, or not doing. Something underneath will be continuously flowing.

Even when you go to sleep, leave the thread only at the last moment when you cannot do anything because you are falling asleep. Whatever is the last thing before you fall asleep will be the first thing when you wake up. Try it. Any small experiment will be enough to prove it. Just repeat your own name while you are falling asleep: half awake, half asleep, go on repeating ... Slowly, slowly you will forget repeating, because the sleep will grow more and more and the thread will be lost. It is lost only because you are asleep, but underneath your sleep it continues. That's why in the morning when you wake up and just look around, the first thing you will remember will be [the sound of your name]. You will be surprised: Why? What happened? You slept eight hours, but there has been an undercurrent.

And as things become deeper and clearer, even in sleep you can remember that you are asleep. Sleep becomes almost a physiological thing and your spirit, your being, becomes a flame of awareness, separate from it. It does not disturb your sleep; it simply makes your sleep very light. It is no more the sleep of the old days, when your house was on fire and you went on sleeping – that was almost like a coma, you were so unconscious.

Your sleep will become thin, a very light layer, and your inside will remain alert. Just as it has been alert in the day, it will be even more alert in the night, finally, because you are so silent, so relaxed. The whole nuisance world becomes completely silent.

Patanjali, the first man in the world to write about meditation, says that meditation is almost like dreamless sleep, but with only one difference. In dreamless sleep you are not aware; in samadhi, in the ultimate state of meditation, there is just a little difference – you are aware."


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Strive to be more than a codified manifestation of a generalized technological consciousness

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Re: One pointed versus awareness meditation [Re: onlynow]
    #7190755 -

well it is relaxation and concentration
i am glad you brought that up
i usually forget how important relaxing is.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: One pointed versus awareness meditation [Re: redgreenvines]
    #7191463 -

i often forget how important concentration is


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Strive to be more than a codified manifestation of a generalized technological consciousness

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Re: One pointed versus awareness meditation [Re: onlynow]
    #7191734 -

they form a natural yinyang unity
which side you approach it, makes little difference


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: One pointed versus awareness meditation [Re: Epigallo]
    #7192343 -

bradley said:
I don't have much instruction in meditation. I basically started when going to a Zen group on a few occasions and the priestess said just watch your breath, and when thoughts arise return attention to the breath. Do what works for you, watch it at one point in the body or follow it all the way through. This is how I have always meditated - following the breath all the way through, and including the parts of the body that are gently moving from the breath within my attention.

Would one pointed meditation be watching the breath at one specific spot? I have tried watching just at the tip of my nose but every time I do this I end up hunching my back and shoulders, making me out of breath. Or is one pointed meditation supposed to be on a static object/point?

I was wondering why someone might choose either awareness meditation or one pointed meditation over another. I just do what I do because it feels good when the breath gets real slow and I am really comfortable sitting still even though my legs have gone numb. What else should I know to get really good at meditation?


One before the other is usually the traditional way. Single pointed is useful because our mind is usually distracted all the time in daily life, so single pointed helps to bring it back to the present moment using an object of meditation. So essentially single-pointed meditation IS training ones awareness to be present. Insight meditation traditionally is when that single pointedness is turned inward to observe 'who' it is that is meditating, so that is more related to discovering the nature of awareness. This is most effective when we have some stability in single pointedness. also it is good to have a teacher to guide us through insight practices as many experiences can arise that we need to know how to work with most effectively so as not to block ourselves.

with single-pointed meditation it is said that breath is the best object, because it is always with us until we die and is something natural, so it connects us more with that naturalness. it is also good because we can notice More our emotions as our breath is directly effected by them. of course, if one does not feel comfortable with using the breath,outer objects can be used, and usually this means we should take a virtuous object (an object that inspires us into virtuous mind states), for example, in Buddhism, we use a statue of a Buddha. if our mind is in a more virtuous state it is easier to relax and have more awareness, so this is why that kind of object is traditionally chosen.

For some people who's attention is always continually focusing hard on object, such as very busy people, perhaps it is better to do meditation without using just mind as the object, or meditation of just letting the ind be for a while first to relax more. But as always we must be aware of our condition and apply what works best for any given situation. Personally, I always recommend the traditional route of single-pointedness meditation before insight.


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Edited by Sinbad (07/18/07 11:17 AM)

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