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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
Loc: up on the bidet
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
Hallucinations and Vipassena Meditation...
    #2144956 - 11/29/03 07:01 PM (13 years, 11 days ago)

Seems like it's quite common to hallucinate while doing
insight meditation.
If a quiet, present mind is supposed to make us more awake then
how come it causes dellusions ?
According to psychologists and experiments with sensory
deprivation the mind will create sensations, images, sounds
etc when it's quiet/bored. This would explain
the hallucinations while meditating...
This seems to be contradictory to the claim of meditation
making one more awake and opening up to reality...


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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Invisiblekaiowas
mndfrayze'speppet urme
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Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,498
Loc: oz
Re: Hallucinations and Vipassena Meditation... [Re: lucid]
    #2144984 - 11/29/03 07:14 PM (13 years, 11 days ago)

yes when we are more aware you do become delusional. maybe that's the joke. so have a laugh...the joke's on us


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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Invisiblechunder
marker

Registered: 08/11/02
Posts: 965
Loc: The City
Re: Hallucinations and Vipassena Meditation... [Re: lucid]
    #2144985 - 11/29/03 07:15 PM (13 years, 11 days ago)

According to psychologists and experiments with sensory
deprivation the mind will create sensations, images, sounds
etc when it's quiet/bored. This would explain
the hallucinations while meditating...


The fact that they observed more hallucinatory experience when the mind was quiet doesn't explain why this is so.

Noticed your recent attack on the practice and implications of meditation lately, you have a bad experience with it, or just exercising your right to question? ; )

Peace.


--------------------


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
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Re: Hallucinations and Vipassena Meditation... [Re: chunder]
    #2144990 - 11/29/03 07:18 PM (13 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

chunder said:
According to psychologists and experiments with sensory
deprivation the mind will create sensations, images, sounds
etc when it's quiet/bored. This would explain
the hallucinations while meditating...


The fact that they observed more hallucinatory experience when the mind was quiet doesn't explain why this is so.




true, but I think hallucinations would impair daily functioning.
So on a practical level, it doesn't seem to be positive.

Quote:

chunder said:
Noticed your recent attack on the practice and implications of meditation lately, you have a bad experience with it, or just exercising your right to question? ; )
Peace.




A bit of both to be honest. I used to be a big proponent of
meditation, but I've had some terrifying and hellish experiences
while meditating whose effects have persisted for a long time
(and still persisting actually), so it's made me reconsider
the benefits of meditation...


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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Invisiblechunder
marker

Registered: 08/11/02
Posts: 965
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Re: Hallucinations and Vipassena Meditation... [Re: lucid]
    #2144999 - 11/29/03 07:22 PM (13 years, 11 days ago)

Well, you need to be true to your own experiences, so if meditation has caused more anguish than it has provided positive growth, then fuck it! Or perhaps a different kind of meditative technique is the answer?

But yeah, if something doesn't work then who needs it? :laugh:


--------------------


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Offlineeve69
--=..Did Adam and ...?=--
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Re: Hallucinations and Vipassena Meditation... [Re: chunder]
    #2145027 - 11/29/03 07:39 PM (13 years, 11 days ago)

Not all visionary experiences are hallucinations.


--------------------
...or something







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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
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Re: Hallucinations and Vipassena Meditation... [Re: chunder]
    #2145055 - 11/29/03 07:51 PM (13 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

chunder said:
Well, you need to be true to your own experiences, so if meditation has caused more anguish than it has provided positive growth, then fuck it! Or perhaps a different kind of meditative technique is the answer?

But yeah, if something doesn't work then who needs it? :laugh: 




yup, part of me still wants to believe that meditation is the
path to liberation and the end of suffering simply because it's
nice to believe that there is good at our very core
(according to Buddha). i.e. that there we are intrinsically
at peace and blissful. But unfortunately, my experience has
revealed otherwise... 


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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Offlineeve69
--=..Did Adam and ...?=--
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Re: Hallucinations and Vipassena Meditation... [Re: lucid]
    #2145351 - 11/29/03 10:03 PM (13 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

yup, part of me still wants to believe that meditation is the
path to liberation and the end of suffering simply because it's
nice to believe that there is good at our very core
(according to Buddha). i.e. that there we are intrinsically
at peace and blissful. But unfortunately, my experience has
revealed otherwise...




But unfortunately meditation is only half of the equation. The other half is living in a good way. These two help each other. During meditation one still has thoughts that arise. These thoughts are also karma. They can be good or bad. These thoughts depend on our karma. Until liberation even the quality of meditation will be stained by relative tint. So do some deeds of generosity and kindness, and this will raise the standard of thought in general as well.


--------------------
...or something







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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
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Re: Hallucinations and Vipassena Meditation... [Re: eve69]
    #2145387 - 11/29/03 10:20 PM (13 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

eve69 said:
So do some deeds of generosity and kindness, and this will raise the standard of thought in general as well.




No offense, but isn't that a bit presumptious ?
I mean you're assuming that I don't do/havn't done anything
generous or kind ?


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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Offlineeve69
--=..Did Adam and ...?=--
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Re: Hallucinations and Vipassena Meditation... [Re: lucid]
    #2145437 - 11/29/03 10:43 PM (13 years, 11 days ago)

No, but everyone can do better. Before you look within my words look within yourself. I'm just trying to help. If you're having shit meditations then it's you that needs help, not me. That's not presumptious. I don't know you. I'll be the first to admit it. That ones thoughts are also karma is a fact by definition of karma. Thoughts are action, even though on a subtle level. Just as when action is good or bad it's a result of karma, so also when thoughts are good or bad it's a result of karma. That's not me saying that, it's just the way it is. Sorry.


--------------------
...or something







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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,319
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Re: Hallucinations and Vipassena Meditation... [Re: eve69]
    #2146265 - 11/30/03 11:26 AM (13 years, 10 days ago)

Sill curious about why one hallucinates while doing
"mindfulness/awareness" meditation :confused:
I mean if it's making one more dellusional how is it
bringing one closer to "REALITY" or making one
more "AWAKE" ?


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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OfflineMalachi
stereotype

Registered: 06/19/02
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Re: Hallucinations and Vipassena Meditation... [Re: lucid]
    #2146274 - 11/30/03 11:31 AM (13 years, 10 days ago)

why are you assuming that the imagery is a physical "byproduct" of your brain? couldn't your bad trips be generated from your mind?



--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

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Re: Hallucinations and Vipassena Meditation... [Re: Malachi]
    #2146486 - 11/30/03 01:42 PM (13 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Malachi said:
why are you assuming that the imagery is a physical "byproduct" of your brain?  couldn't your bad trips be generated from your mind?

 




1) Trips ?  :confused: I'm talking about meditation
2) if u mean "couldn't your bad meditative experiences
be generated from your mind?"
um...that's exactly what I mean...so I'm wondering how meditation
is making me more awake if instead it's making my mind generate
more illusions ?


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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OfflineAnastasia
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Registered: 12/02/03
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Re: Hallucinations and Vipassena Meditation... [Re: lucid]
    #2152241 - 12/02/03 05:28 PM (13 years, 8 days ago)

lucid, why don't you ask your teacher for advice? maybe you're just not doing the meditation right and need guidance?


--------------------
Ko-razume-shvati-ce


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

Registered: 03/29/03
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Re: Hallucinations and Vipassena Meditation... [Re: Anastasia]
    #2152454 - 12/02/03 06:40 PM (13 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Anastasia said:
lucid, why don't you ask your teacher for advice? maybe you're just not doing the meditation right and need guidance? 




I don't have a teacher...
To quote the Buddha "I am a light unto myself"
and I'm kinda lost in the dark right now :grin: 


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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InvisibleJellric
altered statesman

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Re: Hallucinations and Vipassena Meditation... [Re: lucid]
    #2153512 - 12/03/03 12:43 AM (13 years, 8 days ago)

If a quiet, present mind is supposed to make us more awake then how come it causes dellusions ?


Why did you even start meditating in the first place when you are not even buying into the concept? It doesn't cause the delusions, those are fragments of mind you are holding onto.

People have answered your questions several times about meditation, but you keep revisiting the same things over and over. My advice is just stop doing it if you think it causes more problems than it solves for you.


--------------------
I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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OfflinePositronius
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Re: Hallucinations and Vipassena Meditation... [Re: Jellric]
    #2153569 - 12/03/03 01:06 AM (13 years, 8 days ago)

everything causes delusions. The sun causes delusions, your girlfriend causes delusions. Delusions cause delusions

and so forth

thus is the nature of the human mind.


--------------------
and you know it like a poet, like....babydoll


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Offlinelucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness

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Re: Hallucinations and Vipassena Meditation... [Re: Jellric]
    #2156355 - 12/03/03 09:04 PM (13 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

Jellric said:
If a quiet, present mind is supposed to make us more awake then how come it causes dellusions ?


Why did you even start meditating in the first place when you are not even buying into the concept?





My understanding was that you don't have to "buy into the concept",
in fact that's what appealed to me so much about it...that I just
had to try and experience it myself and my experiences havn't been
so good.

Quote:

Jellric said:
It doesn't cause the delusions, those are fragments of mind you are holding onto.




yes, but I thought meditation was supposed to bring one closer
to reality not to framents of mind.

Quote:

Jellric said:
People have answered your questions several times about meditation, but you keep revisiting the same things over and over.
My advice is just stop doing it if you think it causes more problems than it solves for you




There's a hint of furstration in your reply. Sorry if my attempts
to relate my expeirnces (which I thought would be valuable to share)
and my insights about them and to try and understand what/why
I'm going through this is causeing u frustration. Perhaps I will
stop posting here.


--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."


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OfflineAnastasia
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Re: Hallucinations and Vipassena Meditation... [Re: Jellric]
    #2157403 - 12/04/03 06:21 AM (13 years, 7 days ago)

I actually agree with Jellric, i dont think there was any frustration in what he said.. but I wouldn't say stop meditating id say find a teacher if you dont have one. he might be more competent to explain it to you and guide you.


--------------------
Ko-razume-shvati-ce


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OfflineAnastasia
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Re: Hallucinations and Vipassena Meditation... [Re: Anastasia]
    #2157404 - 12/04/03 06:23 AM (13 years, 7 days ago)

btw how did you find out about Vipassena Meditation? or is that just an old subject for the forum?


--------------------
Ko-razume-shvati-ce


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General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

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