Home | Community | Message Board
You are not signed in.
Sign In New Account
Forum Index Search Posts Trusted Vendors Highlights Galleries FAQ User List Chat Store Random Growery

PlanetSpores.ca
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 |  [ show all ]
Bad news for profit-seeking psychics
    #6971924 -

http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2007/01/72482

Apparently, the James Randi Million Dollar Challenge is now only open to "high-profile" psychics. I guess the skeptics on this board will have to find a new red herring to use against people's paranormal claims.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Bad news for profit-seeking psychics [Re: Silversoul]
    #6972301 -

Silversoul said:
http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2007/01/72482

Apparently, the James Randi Million Dollar Challenge is now only open to "high-profile" psychics. I guess the skeptics on this board will have to find a new red herring to use against people's paranormal claims.


They abound:

Quote:
The Australian Skeptics offer $100,000 (Australian), $80,000 for the psychic and $20,000 for anyone "who nominates a person who successfully completes the Australian Skeptics Challenge." If you nominate yourself, and are successful, you get the whole hundred grand.

The Association for Skeptical Inquiry (ASKE), a U.K. skeptic organization, offers £12,000 for proof of psychic powers.

The Tampa Bay Skeptics offer $1,000 to anyone able to demonstrate any paranormal phenomenon under mutually agreed-upon observing conditions.

The North Texas Skeptics offer $12,000 to any person who can demonstrate any psychic or paranormal power or ability under scientifically valid observing conditions.


http://skepdic.com/randi.html


--------------------


"Both liberty and equality are among the primary goals pursued by human beings through many centuries; but total liberty for wolves is death to the lambs" -- Isaiah Berlin

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Bad news for profit-seeking psychics [Re: Silversoul]
    #6972331 -

Quote:
I guess the skeptics on this board will have to find a new red herring to use against people's paranormal claims.



Please explain how an offer to validate a claimed talent is a 'red herring'. This should be interesting.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Bad news for profit-seeking psychics [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #6972876 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
I guess the skeptics on this board will have to find a new red herring to use against people's paranormal claims.



Please explain how an offer to validate a claimed talent is a 'red herring'. This should be interesting.


I'm sorry. Is your name James Randi? Then by all means, offer people the opportunity to back up their claim. Otherwise, asking them to go to someone else is just a tactic to silence them.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Bad news for profit-seeking psychics [Re: Silversoul]
    #6972884 -

I'm not in charge of gravity, either, but that doesn't mean I cannot challenge someone to prove that they can fly.

Are you saying that each person who is skeptical of a paranormal claim must create their own million-dollar fund?

:crazy:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Bad news for profit-seeking psychics [Re: Veritas]
    #6972887 -

Who said anything about offering money?

Okay, maybe I phrased that thing wrong. The point is, in the context of an internet discussion, telling someone to take up the Randi challenge does nothing to contribute to that discussion, as they can't very well take up the challenge right in the middle of the discussion. Thus, in that context, it is a red herring.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Bad news for profit-seeking psychics [Re: Silversoul]
    #6972901 -

Quote:
A red herring is an argument, given in reply, that does not address the original issue. Critically, a red herring is a deliberate attempt to change the subject or divert the argument.


If the issue being debated is whether or not someone has paranormal abilities, how is requesting a public, structured demonstration of those abilities a "red herring"?

Certainly the poster cannot take the challenge that minute, but they also cannot demonstrate their abilities that minute, so what argument pro or con would NOT be a "red herring," by your manner of classification?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Bad news for profit-seeking psychics [Re: Silversoul]
    #6972910 -

Why do people get so defensive when these claims are made? If someone is claiming to be psychic, and you dont believe in that kind of thing, wouldnt you just assume this person is crazy?

Insecurity...

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Bad news for profit-seeking psychics [Re: Veritas]
    #6972920 -

I suppose I'd have to dig up some old threads to show how it's been used as a red herring, but since I don't feel like taking the time, I'll just concede defeat and bow out of this one.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Bad news for profit-seeking psychics [Re: Silversoul]
    #6972931 -

What was the spiritual/philosophical topic posed for debate in this thread?  :confused:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Bad news for profit-seeking psychics [Re: Veritas]
    #6972980 -

Veritas said:
What was the spiritual/philosophical topic posed for debate in this thread?  :confused:


The fact that skeptics will now have to deal with paranormal claims themselves rather than deferring to someone else.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Bad news for profit-seeking psychics [Re: Silversoul]
    #6972984 -

The burden of proof is on the claimant.  :shrug:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Bad news for profit-seeking psychics [Re: daytripper23]
    #6973150 -

A few years ago a kid whose name you may remember, Shawn Hornbeck, turned up missing. The parents, desperate to find their son, went to the famous psychic Sylvia Brown for an expensive 'reading'. Sylvia helps no one for free, you see.

Anyway, Sylvia, the lying bitch that she is, knows that when a kid is missing for more than a few months, it is almost always the case that they are dead. The longer the time they're missing, the more likely they'll never be found.

With this knowledge, Sylvia told the parents that Shawn was dead. She made up a bullshit story about where the body is. Specifically, an area so large and remote that there was no way it could ever be thoroughly searched.

You can imagine what this did to that family.

Well, as it happens, a few months ago, four years after the abduction, the kid was found when the weirdo who'd abducted him abducted another local kid.

Needless to say, Sylvia didn't offer a refund.

In 2001, Sylvia agreed to be tested by James Randi on Larry King Live. To this day, she's refused to follow through with her promise.



In the late 90s, a famous TV preacher named Peter Poppov became well known for 'divining' the ailments of the audience and 'curing' them on stage by smacking them upside the head. His sermons aren't free, by the way; there is a hefty entrance fee. Despite this, he routinely sells out hundred thousand seat venues to people who are desperately sick or have a sick child and who are willing to do anything to find a cure.

James Randi went to one of these events with a hidden camera. He caught Poppov's staff 'interviewing' people before the show to decide who would be cured on stage and who wouldn't. The staff were quick to pick old people with walkers and such because even the sickest person with a walker can take two or three steps unassisted after being 'cured' by Poppov. Double that after the shot of adrenaline from being on stage in front of thousands of people.

Unfortunately, Randi's team also filmed a woman with her little son in a wheelchair who was turned down for a 'curing'. This was because the little kid had terminal, late-stage leukemia and there was no fucking way he could get up and take a few steps on stage.

If that tactic by Poppov doesn't make him a vicious, thieving, lying, piece of shit, I don't know what does.

And if that wasn't enough, later during the show Randi's team used a radio scanner and found that Poppov wasn't 'divining' the names, address, and ailments of seemingly random people in the audience. Rather he was wearing a small earpiece and his wife backstage was telling him the marks' information which she read from cards filled out by audience members before the show. Poppov claimed this information was being 'channeled' to him by God.

So, as Poppov walked among the audience, Randi's team recorded Poppov's wife saying things like "Hiya Petee.. see that fat nigger ahead of you and to your left? She has arthritis. Go smack that bitch on the head and cure her. She said she'll become a member and that house in the Hampton's is gonna cost us a pretty penny... haha."

Even though Randi made all this information public, Poppov still to this day sells out to huge crowds all over the Bible Belt... and obviously, he refuses to participate in a controlled test of his divining and healing powers.

These are just two of many examples including names like Yuri Geller, Ms. Cleo, John Edwards, and so on.



So, my point in all this is that getting upset about these disgusting charlatans praying on others' emotions as they steal their money is not defensiveness. It's compassion.

If someone is picking your pocket and I tell you about it, would you think less of me?

Think about that the next time James Randi is attacked for trying to show us the truth by someone who thinks that demanding a reasonable test of an unreasonable claim is being a red herring.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Bad news for profit-seeking psychics [Re: Silversoul]
    #6973470 -

Quote:
The fact that skeptics will now have to deal with paranormal claims themselves rather than deferring to someone else.



You mean like the 34 different 'Swami Challenges' or the infamous Shroomism Niburu wager that was not honored?


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Bad news for profit-seeking psychics [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #6973517 -

or the infamous Shroomism Niburu wager that was not honored?

Niburu's arrival was rescheduled to coincide with the arrival of the Photon Band, now set by Shroomism for December 21, 2012 when it will no doubt be rescheduled again.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Bad news for profit-seeking psychics [Re: Diploid]
    #6973596 -

Should I ask him to go 'double-or-nothing'? (Or is that redundant & meaningless?) Remember that 'fourth density beings' are NOT required by interdimensional laws to honor their word.

Speaking of 2012, notice that despite a zillion posts here and elsewhere, nothing of substance has been predicted. Believers will look back in 2013 AFTER-THE-FACT and THEN make a claim and go, 'See? I told you.'


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Bad news for profit-seeking psychics [Re: Diploid]
    #6975034 -

So if this is your reasoning, were you insinuating that i am this kind of person when you challenged me in this way in the past?

Taking advantage of ppl like that is obviously wrong. I was more reffering to the philosophical aspects of psychic phenomena that are continually overriden and derailed by the "You must prove it!" argument, that never accomplishes anything and to me is exactly the same as the common silliness of an athiest arguing with a thiest.

I agree that people who are exploiting others in this way are horrible and should be stopped. But cant you see that this challenge that is presented is at least vaguely remenicient to the instances you described? Your asking people to hypothetically go down this same path of greed and self-servance. Whether its supernatural power or mere ability to exploit others, it has the same root. Its kind of ironic that you take this position of selflessness, while continually submitting people to this contest.

In philisophical discussion, if someone is stating that psychic phenomena is direct evidence of something, I can understand if someone contends this. But if someone is trying to express something deeper, and is continually derailed in the same way, the pesterer is hindering the discussion by offering a viewpoint that is surely already known by everyone: That there is no proof of psychic phenomena. Not only that, but on these boards it is many times presented in a mocking manner, so it reinforces my notion that this is for the persons ego and not truth. Should all discussions concerning god have to go through the "prove it!" process as well?

My point is, practically nothing is accomplished when you say "prove it!" in these circumstances. Your not going to convince a psychic that he isnt, and he isnt going to prove to you that he is. (which you already know) The only information it offers is there is no proof of psychic phenomena, which again everybody already knows in the first place. Im not sure if this is a red herring but I wonder if this is what silversoul was referring to.

Edited by daytripper23 (05/27/07 08:35 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Bad news for profit-seeking psychics [Re: daytripper23]
    #6975176 -

My point is, practically nothing is accomplished when you say "prove it!" in these circumstances.

Noting is accomplished when someone makes an outrageous claim, then refuses to back it up with evidence. :shrug:

Challenging the claim so that we may all see it for what it really is, whatever that may be, is more productive, don't you think?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Bad news for profit-seeking psychics [Re: Diploid]
    #6975225 -

Noting is accomplished when someone makes an outrageous claim, then refuses to back it up with evidence.

So basically your saying that nothing has been accomplished through religious thought?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Bad news for profit-seeking psychics [Re: daytripper23]
    #6975349 -

In philisophical discussion, if someone is stating that psychic phenomena is direct evidence of something, I can understand if someone contends this. But if someone is trying to express something deeper, and is continually derailed in the same way,

That's why we have two forums for this. If you just want to state your ideas without challenge there is a forum to post in. So there should be no problem.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 |  [ show all ]

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* God Exists
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 all )		 Zahid 12,579 113 03/18/03 03:57 PM
by falcon
* psychic
( 1 2 all )		 MuShi_KiNg 2,584 26 03/05/02 03:06 PM
by MuShi_KiNg
* Heralding a new age...
( 1 2 3 all )		 Adamist 4,390 50 10/13/02 08:04 PM
by johnnyfive
* Are you a slave to a God that doesn't exist?
( 1 2 3 all )		 Larrythescaryrex 8,091 42 07/30/02 04:00 PM
by Larrythescaryrex
* THE NEW SCHOOL PRAYER
( 1 2 all )		 Ellis Dee 3,034 22 01/18/02 06:14 PM
by Mycoangelo
* The @#$%ing Psychic Abilities Test Tannis 1,068 5 04/18/02 12:38 PM
by Tannis
* Has anyone else brought back bad energy? maranite 1,268 7 10/13/02 11:29 AM
by CleverName
* my weekend with a psychic :) MuShi_KiNg 1,701 15 07/02/02 05:50 PM
by Anonymous

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
4,374 topic views. 0 members, 23 guests and 15 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2026 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.032 seconds spending 0.006 seconds on 16 queries.