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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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'Real' Money vs. Counterfeit Money
    #6877338 -

In this topic we are going to discuss paper money.

The only difference that I can discern between government-printed money vs. an excellent couterfeit is a form of mystical 'blessing' that the goverment performs at the mint akin to some religious ritual.

The US government speaks of inflation as some mysterious economic force out of her control, but point-of-fact: the ONLY cause of inflation is the government printing more money than is backed by any form of real wealth thus devaluing every citizens' holdings dramatically.

House prices have gone up 10 fold in the last few decades, not because real estate is appreciating as much as beacause the dollar is being devalued due to overprinting.

Now, I was not trying to get into an economics lesson here, but I felt the background was necessary before returning to my opening point.

If a government-printed hundred dollar bill is indistinguishable from a near-perfect counterfeit and one is worth $100 and the other is worth $0 (in theory) then the only difference is some mystical X-factor. Now what does that tell us? (Remember that an ounce of pure gold has roughly the same value no matter who coins it, if you disregard numismatic value.)

When the goverment steals your wealth by over-printing, it is 'legal', but if another does it it is a federal crime with heavy penalties.

Is not this whole situation absurd and a house of cards doomed to fall like it has in many governments past?


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Re: 'Real' Money vs. Counterfeit Money [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #6877461 -

give back to Cesar what Cesar gave to you.

That is what jesus would say.


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Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal.

And I am mentally unstable.

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Re: 'Real' Money vs. Counterfeit Money [Re: budmanman]
    #6877470 -

A salad? :shrug:


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Re: 'Real' Money vs. Counterfeit Money [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #6877802 -

This is why I own precious metals

They can print paper money for four cents a sheet till theyre blue in the face


--------------------

-::- Moonglue's Mushroom Tea -::-Moonglue's Cannabis Chocolate Peanutbutter Toasties-::-

Quitting Weed FAQ

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Re: 'Real' Money vs. Counterfeit Money [Re: moon_glue]
    #6877889 -

Some sociologist remarked something like:

"We often fail to recognize that we give money its value, not the other way around."


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Entropy is increasing.
To send me a PM, go to my journal

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Re: 'Real' Money vs. Counterfeit Money [Re: Grok]
    #6878200 -

You know the government waves a magic wand over their bills to give it value, right?

BTW what was the time/place of the scenario where people were covering their walls with money because it was cheaper than wallpaper? I'm thinking Germany?

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Re: 'Real' Money vs. Counterfeit Money [Re: OrgoneConclusion] * 3
    #6878215 -

Money is not printed. It is recieved from heaven like mana. Counterfeiters are heretics who seek to defy God's will by plagiarising him. The government serves God by protecting his intellectual property and occasionally bombing other countries for him(since he is, afterall, an American). The government has your best interests at heart. Fnord.


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Edited by Silversoul (05/06/07 08:51 AM)

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Re: 'Real' Money vs. Counterfeit Money [Re: Silversoul]
    #6878239 -

*Homer gives Bart some money.*

Bart: Hey, this isn't real money, its printed by the Montana militia.

Homer (angrily): It'll be real soon enough... *shakes fist*

:lol:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: 'Real' Money vs. Counterfeit Money [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #6879205 -

Yes, the only way to personally get rid of every inflation (which is the doom of an empire, if it is too fast), is to spend the money (change it into anything) as fast as possible, as soon one receives it :smile:
With that, one directly works against inflation, as one ever will receive more money for that what one has bought (and that's what it's all about in economy).
Inflation will slowly devalue only the 'virtual' money, which has no 'solid' connection to our reality, so one is forced to do something with it, bring it back into the 'cycle', back into economy for all to partake from. Not to build some 'virtual' imbalance, by collecting personal virtual value (so if you have all the money, no one could buy anything anymore). In fact, if one would possess all the money, one would possess the whole reality as well :grin:
Inflation valuates those thing which can be bought, not the money itself :wink:
And that's a good thing, in general, imho.


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Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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Re: 'Real' Money vs. Counterfeit Money [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #6880262 -

I assume you are speaking of most modern money which is in fact NOT backed by any amount of precious metal. It is only worth something because you know it is worth something to someone else who in tern will take it because it is worth something to someone else. It really is all in your head but its more of a convenience than anything. Think of it as a way to stockpile your efforts. It makes it easier to buy the things you want and makes it more efficient as well so you can get more for your effort of working. Not to mention it allows you to specialize in one thing, which lets you make things more efficiently and improve upon them because that is all you do. I could go on and on about the benefits of currency but that'd be for another time.

You mentioned "The US government speaks of inflation as some mysterious economic force out of her control, but point-of-fact: the ONLY cause of inflation is the government printing more money than is backed by any form of real wealth thus devaluing every citizens' holdings dramatically." which is not true at all. The only cause of inflation is NOT the government printing more money than is backed by real wealth (its not backed by anything physical anyway and there is no one cause of inflation). Inflation is actually a very very good thing (to a degree). No inflation causes a stagnant economy where effectively no money is changing hands and extremely high inflation is obviously bad as well because the prices of things are way out of peoples league. The economics of the US and other large industrial nations is not as simple as to say that the government printing money is bad. You also lump all inflation into the same category. The housing market's inflation has nothing to do with the current value of the US$(unless you where buying real estate in a different country and exchanging your currency for theirs but you're not and thats even more complicated). When a single internal market (such as housing) either sky rockets or plummets that is the effect, not the cause of a problem. It is actually the problem fixing itself. You said housing prices have gone up 10 fold in the last few decades, yet they are currently going way way down (hence the reason a lot of people are losing their newly purchased homes). You're right in that the housing market was over inflated but the government had nothing to do with that. In the most simplified way of looking at it, its simply people over valuing something and then realizing "oh wait its not really worth that much"(in the current case with housing its a little different than that but again that is beyond the scope of this post). It really is nothing more than supply and demand, when there isn't much of something (ie houses can't be built as fast as people want them) and a lot of people want them then the prices go up, then when that reverses (either more housing companies building houses or less people wanting to take the risk of buying a new home) the prices drop until that balance is found again. Of course the balance is never truly found because things are always changing this is why when economists talk about the cause and effect of something they'll say "Ceteris Paribus" which in latin means "all else equal".

So now onto why goverments hate it when you print fake money. They hate it because they don't just willy nilly print out money. Bob doesn't wake up one morning and say "Hey maybe we should print off some more $100's". You'd also have to question who gets this new money? If you said the government you'd only be half right (a lot of it goes to replace aging bills they receive from banks) but even the government isn't stupid and realizes that if they go around spending all this new money and just print out more whenever they need then they will seriously devalue their money and in turn have to print out more and more until it costs more to print out money than they get out of printing it (in which case most countries who screw up this badly have just made larger bills). The amount of money the government adds into circulation each year is very very VERY carefully calculated. The people who are in charge of interest rates and such are in a position that they can't be placed in twice (it might actually be a life time position I forget) so they don't have to worry about "public backlash" and play politics because what they do takes decades to even take effect and they shouldn't be worried about what people think about them now. They nudge and bump the economy, not steer it. So when someone goes through and prints out some fake $20's not only do they screw with how much money was added to circulation but if/when people realize fake money is going around they lose trust in the money so money is devalued and if left unchecked money will be worthless which is the real problem. Because of this large retailers (Walmart, Target ect) who accidentally take fake money actually turn it in and get real money in exchange for documenting where this money came from.

Economics really is very complicated and interwoven with a lot of different things. There is no one cause of anything and the government has just as much to lose than you do for screwing up the economy. This post by no means is anywhere close to complete to back up a lot of my own reasoning otherwise I'd be pages and pages and pages. You have the internet at your fingertips with a huge variety of sources, so don't take my word for any of this. The beauty of being human is you are smart enough to question information presented to you.

Edited by pasteface (05/06/07 12:31 PM)

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Re: 'Real' Money vs. Counterfeit Money [Re: pasteface]
    #6880319 -

pasteface said:
It seems that you have not ever had a real economics lesson or if you did you misinterpreted it horribly.


This statement does not contribute to the discussion of ideas and is inappropriate. Please be more considerate of the nature of this forum in the future.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: 'Real' Money vs. Counterfeit Money [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6880338 -

fireworks_god said:
This statement does not contribute to the discussion of ideas and is inappropriate. Please be more considerate of the nature of this forum in the future.


Yeah I edited it out sorry I'm just a little high strung (lots of caffeine and lots of studying for exams) I didn't mean to be negative like that.

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Re: 'Real' Money vs. Counterfeit Money [Re: pasteface]
    #6880350 -

:smile:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: 'Real' Money vs. Counterfeit Money [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6880370 -

And for a brief flicker in eternity, peace and harmony reign again in P&S.


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Re: 'Real' Money vs. Counterfeit Money [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #6880416 -

I was thinking about this and if you think about it in more generalities than unbacked money and back to precious metal money, then its almost the same. Precious metal is worth something just because people believe it is (disregarding the relatively new uses for gold and other conductors). It is kinda weird how the humanity values things because there isn't much of it regardless of how much actual use it is. Or maybe instead they picked precious metals as the original currency because 1) its impossible to counterfeit(in the idea you cannot turn iron into gold) and 2) there is a very limited supply so the gold that is added into circulation is very low and perhaps just enough to keep a slow rise of inflation (near perfect for those times of lower populations). Its almost like the chicken and the egg in a way... Then again I just tryed to type out the two questions and they are logically identical so maybe not lol anyway I'm done ranting I need to get back to studying :confused:

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Re: 'Real' Money vs. Counterfeit Money [Re: pasteface]
    #6880783 -

the idea of precious metals is thats its international currency. where as the strength of the dollar is relative to the strength of the people people making it.


--------------------

-::- Moonglue's Mushroom Tea -::-Moonglue's Cannabis Chocolate Peanutbutter Toasties-::-

Quitting Weed FAQ

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Re: 'Real' Money vs. Counterfeit Money [Re: moon_glue]
    #6880830 -

moon_glue said:
the idea of precious metals is thats its international currency.


Actually, the international currency is pretty much the United States dollar. Precious metals are not capable of effectively acting as international currency.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: 'Real' Money vs. Counterfeit Money [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #6880838 -

As an aside, I have to agree that there is something mystical about money being officially sanctioned as official currency. Magick operates in our daily lives much more than we realize.


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Re: 'Real' Money vs. Counterfeit Money [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #6881122 -

I don't really know what to say other than excellent topic :smile:

You leave this very vague for discussion. Are you suggesting counterfeiting is no different than overprinting? Or are you suggesting that we ask the government to stop printing so much money? Is there some reason they print more than is necessary? Should we go by invisible money or the barter system?

If it is merely real money vs counterfeit, well consider this scenario: printed money was created in good proportion to stocks, shares, and bonds. If a crime organization decided to print fake money (thus, further decreasing the value of the dollar) should it be illegal then? Of course!

I don't understand too well how the economy works so I'm just speculating.


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.

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Re: 'Real' Money vs. Counterfeit Money [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #6881207 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
In this topic we are going to discuss paper money.

The only difference that I can discern between government-printed money vs. an excellent couterfeit is a form of mystical 'blessing' that the goverment performs at the mint akin to some religious ritual.

The US government speaks of inflation as some mysterious economic force out of her control, but point-of-fact: the ONLY cause of inflation is the government printing more money than is backed by any form of real wealth thus devaluing every citizens' holdings dramatically.

House prices have gone up 10 fold in the last few decades, not because real estate is appreciating as much as beacause the dollar is being devalued due to overprinting.

Now, I was not trying to get into an economics lesson here, but I felt the background was necessary before returning to my opening point.

If a government-printed hundred dollar bill is indistinguishable from a near-perfect counterfeit and one is worth $100 and the other is worth $0 (in theory) then the only difference is some mystical X-factor. Now what does that tell us? (Remember that an ounce of pure gold has roughly the same value no matter who coins it, if you disregard numismatic value.)

When the goverment steals your wealth by over-printing, it is 'legal', but if another does it it is a federal crime with heavy penalties.

Is not this whole situation absurd and a house of cards doomed to fall like it has in many governments past?


It's cultcha dude. The land of sleeping sheepies. One falls and another cums up. "Twas ever Thus".


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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