Home | Community | Message Board


Gaiana.nl
Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | Next >  [ show all ]
Anonymous

Crop Circles
    #484625 - 12/09/01 01:26 AM (15 years, 5 days ago)

Ok as requested lets discuss Crop Circles. I don't have the energy to go into a long winded lecture about them right now, and I'm sure you don't want to hear it. So I will cover a few major points.

~ Crop circles have been appearing in our fields since as early as the 1670s, according to our knowledge.

~Crop circles usually appear overnight, and some have been known to appear in under a minute.

~Hoaxers who claim they make crop circles are easily proven wrong. Fake Crop circles are readily distinguished from real ones.

~Most Crop circles have the grain bent at a 90 degree angle, 2 millimeters from the ground. The circles of the crops are usually bent in a spiral pattern, and in many circles the individual grains are intertwining with other grains in groups of three like a braid. If done by human hands this would take weeks.

~Real crop circles are perfect, there are no imperfect circles, or crooked lines, unless they are intended..and you can tell when they are intended.

~Crop circles have been shown to have mathematical truths built into their structure.

~Interestingly enough, these equations have been shown to be music when transferred to notes.

~Crop circles have trace amount of radiation where the crop is bent, the other areas are left uneffected.

Here are some pictures for your viewing pleasure.







Here are some links

Crop Circles, their meaning and connection with dreams

The history of Crop Circles

The noise room- Crop Circles of 1999

There's enough links in those sites to fill your brain for years. I'll see where this thread goes and respond to all questions. Brain isn't functioning at its highest level right now so I will end this.
Love and Light



Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Anonymous

Re: Crop Circles [Re: ]
    #484629 - 12/09/01 01:30 AM (15 years, 5 days ago)

thanks shroomish...

/me goes to read linked pages



Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Anonymous

Re: Crop Circles [Re: ]
    #484630 - 12/09/01 01:31 AM (15 years, 5 days ago)

Note that most of those pictures are taken from a helicopter...the crop circles in the pictures are well over 300 feet in diameter.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblecantara
member
Registered: 08/06/01
Posts: 133
Loc: Beyond the sun
Re: Crop Circles [Re: ]
    #484634 - 12/09/01 01:35 AM (15 years, 5 days ago)

What of the post that I saw here a few months back....I don't recall who it was, maybe Swami....who noted that these crop circles never contain mathematical functions, formulas, or branches of mathematics that humans haven't discovered? I think he/she/whoever it was gave the example of Mandelbrot sets, and how after we discovered those, then they turned up....to me that is an indicator that crop circles aren't supernatural in origin. At least, it would be "consistent with", not "proof of" kind of indication.



--------------------
---- Cantara

[green]Shroomism, please don't delete this thread![/green]


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblecantara
member
Registered: 08/06/01
Posts: 133
Loc: Beyond the sun
Re: Crop Circles [Re: ]
    #484635 - 12/09/01 01:37 AM (15 years, 5 days ago)

Shroomism I am getting pretty tired now too, so I will sign off for now.  I will read a lot on these links you provide, and will then get some sleep  :smile:.  I will reply tomorrow, and I hope we will have interesting conversations.



--------------------
---- Cantara

[green]Shroomism, please don't delete this thread![/green]


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Anonymous

Re: Crop Circles [Re: cantara]
    #484639 - 12/09/01 01:41 AM (15 years, 5 days ago)

How could you know that crop circles don't contain mathematical functions, formulas, or branches of mathematics that humans haven't discovered? If we haven't discovered them, would we recognize them?

I'm seriously asking, I am an idiot...


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinespreadhead
journeyman

Registered: 12/05/01
Posts: 60
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
Re: Crop Circles [Re: ]
    #484704 - 12/09/01 02:57 AM (15 years, 5 days ago)

Here we go . . .

After the most famous crop circles were inspected by certified Cereologists and labeled the real deal, the kids who made them turned up with video evidence detailing step by step precisely how they did it. Cereologists generally can't even get within chance when it comes to identifying "real" crop circles. But I guess that makes sense, seeing as how they're all fake. It was a schoolboy prank gone horribly, horribly wrong.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Anonymous

Re: Crop Circles [Re: ]
    #484787 - 12/09/01 05:21 AM (15 years, 5 days ago)

Okay... for anyone that saw the tv show with the circlemakers, start here:
http://home.clara.net/lovely/crophoax_debrief.html


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinespreadhead
journeyman

Registered: 12/05/01
Posts: 60
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
Re: Crop Circles [Re: Anonymous]
    #484999 - 12/09/01 02:13 PM (15 years, 5 days ago)

Well, I tried. If you want to keep believing in crop circles when there's a much, much simpler explanation, knock yourself out. But I seriously think you people don't have enough faith in what humans are capable of.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Anonymous

Re: Crop Circles [Re: spreadhead]
    #485011 - 12/09/01 02:25 PM (15 years, 5 days ago)

Exactly where did I say I believed in crop circles? I don't remember saying anything either way... and when you say 'you people' I take it you are referring to the people with an open mind as opposed to people with a closed mind like yourself?


Edited by Anonymous (12/09/01 02:30 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinespreadhead
journeyman

Registered: 12/05/01
Posts: 60
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
Re: Crop Circles [Re: Anonymous]
    #485109 - 12/09/01 04:03 PM (15 years, 5 days ago)

I have a very open mind. However, when you look at things like this, it's hard to believe that so many people can be fooled by a simple schoolboy prank. But it's obvious this board is not what I expected it to be, so I believe I'll just head on out.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Anonymous

Re: Crop Circles [Re: spreadhead]
    #485124 - 12/09/01 04:29 PM (15 years, 5 days ago)

If you're going to attribute 10,000+ crop circles over the past ten years, most being extremely complex and covering over 500 feet of area..to schoolboy pranks then so be it. However I wouldn't consider that an open mind if you wont read any of the articles published or links included. Have you ever seen a crop circle from up close? Ever been inside one? Ever heard of one aside from what the media portrays? Some can be attributed to hoaxes, of course..but the fact that they take credit for all of them is nonsense. This is what is called debunking. In reality, no human can make a 300 foot wide intricate pattern outside of Barbury Castle at 4 in the afternoon with no one noticing in under 5 minutes. It's simply not possible.

Here is some text taken from the link Smack provided:

No hoaxed crop circle has ever produced the singlemost characteristic associated with the genuine phenomenon: plants whose stems are bent, not broken. Other anomalies include alteration in the crystalline structure of the plants themselves, also unfakable, and alterations of the local electromagnetic field There is the ability of the plants to grow after being laid, indicating they are alive and have not been trampled; possible alterations in soil chemical composition; distorted and more rapidly germinating seeds; and severe loss of groundwater, just to mention a few.

Some hard evidence that has surfaced comes from an article in The Southland Times which described the episode. Apparently the team and the TV production crew employed the services of two 40-ton cranes just to lift the lighting, to enable them to be filmed at night- and most importantly, allowing the hoaxers to work in perfect visibility. This action alone was reported to have attracted large crowds of fascinated viewers and the local police; again, an action impossible to get away with in England, where 90% of the world's crop circles appear.

The segment starts with some pretty aerial footage of crop circles- four real , two hoaxes (not that you were told). Then Judd gets serious:

"Researchers say there's no physical evidence of human construction."

This is half-truth number 1. Researchers will tell you traces of human involvement are not present in the genuine phenomenon. In hoaxes you will find post holes, disturbed soil where there previously had been post holes, and evidence of human construction because the plants are simply crushed to death, the soft soil is compacted in and around the area or footprints abound on top of flattened plants.

"that there's no disturbance of soil , nor footprints."

This is a lie. The soil in England is made of vicious, clinging mud which will leave footprints on it or the crop if you try and enter the area. At a conservative estimate, 66% of crop circles are made on rainy nights which makes signs of entry pretty easy to find. Secondly, the soil contains small, fragile chalk balls which disintegrate when lightly crushed between the fingers. These will be powdered in the event of people walking-in with planks.

"Researchers mention the enormous size of the patterns- that it is not possible to create such patterns in so little time."

The circle fakers in New Zealand said the challenge was to create a pattern rivaling the best of British in under four hours, the maximum amount of darkness in the English summer. Here they took over five and a half (and two days to survey and stake out- but you didn't hear this on TV). Their formation consisted of 108 circles. Compare this to the 196 circles of the Triple Julia at Windmill Hill, the 208 at the Star of Solomon, and the 148 of the Julia Set beside Stonehenge And it's not just the size, it's the features, the anomalies, and the use of natural spirals- just from the air a trained eye could see that the NZ hoax was made with flattening equipment. And despite the number of cirles in hoaxes, their sizes are far smaller than genuine crop circles.

"No one has ever been caught- until now'"

Suggesting that the event was caught by hidden cameras? Utter lie. The team was paid to do this for TV. They stayed for several days at a local hotel, with camera crew. There was a crowd of local people watching them work- even the farmer showed up to watch. And yes, the Wessex Skeptics team were once caught in the middle of a design in England, just as Team Satan would be in 1999 as they made another formation, this time in England, for the BBC (ironically they were caught in total darkness, and by another group of hoaxers).

Then NBC shows us the Olivers Castle video footage of a crop circle being made by balls of light. Here is the ultimate irony- this video WAS a hoax, the perpetrator was caught and criminal charges are being brought against him. NBC claims that this is what researchers say creates crop circles. Not so. The majority of honest and unbiased researchers exposed the video as an attempt at discrediting the community over a year ago. What they do say, which is based on eyewiyness accounts and genuine footage, is that incandescent balls of light and structured craft are present at crop circles events. We are still not sure what their association is.

"Another discovery is made as the sun rises over the crop."

Lie. There was no discovery. A discovery implies you stumbled upon it without prior knowledge. This was set up from the beginning.

"Made by unknown visitors."

Lie. Their names are Rod Dickinson, John Lundberg and Will Russell. It will say so on the production release sheet. The team is known in England and claims to have been active since 1994, a claim they cannot substantiate.

"The NZ newspaper report asked the standard questions."

Half-truth. They asked basic journalistic drivel. Inquiries to the newspaper have met with obstruction or total silence. They simply do not wish to investigate the matter, a contradiction of journalistic raison d'etre. This is a similar attitude to the Today newspaper which brought out Doug and Dave (since proved to have been created by the British government). One has to wonder if, like Today, The Southland Press wasn't implicated in the scam.

"Their car parked at some distance for a clean getaway."

Lie. It was parked by the road where a crowd of onlookers oversaw the whole incident. Not that you saw that on TV.

"with nothing but the moonlight to help them."

Blatant lie. Two very powerful lights had to be hauled using forty ton cranes. You couldn't couldn't get away with this in England, hence another reason why New Zealand was such a convenient location. Besides, one researcher figured out (Chad Deetkin, I believe), that the vast majority of crop circles appear during moonless, cloudy or rainy nights. When the full moon is out it is so bright that anyone caught in a field will be arrested on the spot. Remember, England is one of the most densely populated countries in the world and farmers are often out till 12.30 am, and up at 4am to check their fields.

"Often the ground is hard."

Half-truth. Often the ground is muddy in English fields. It has been known to rain these. However, the soil in a crop circle is often hard compared to the soil outside, suggesting a heating component is involved. Infrasound and microwave energy is known to do this. But not planks of wood.

"When footprints are found, researchers attribute them to visitors, making it a win-win situation."

Lie. When footprints are found it negates one of the criteria for validation, hence why researchers try to get to sites before anyone else. When visitors have been there first, we will look for other clues such has the unfakable bend in the stalk, followed by rigorous soil and plant tests which no hoaxer has been able to replicate. If too much damage has been made by people, an open verdict is recorded. These are just some of the tests involved.

"upon arriving at a predetermined location in the crop, our team assembles."

Ah, I thought Judd said earlier that no one had been caught until now! Suddenly they are 'our' team?

"once the center is staked out a tuff of wheat is left standing."

Lie. The center of this formation was in the tram line where there is no circle or wheat to flatten; however, it does mark the center of a very poor rendition of the Mandelbrot Set, a mathematical fractal design which requires a computer to draw correctly. Its real counterpart in 1991 was artificially clipped to contain diatonic ratios which no hoaxer has yet had the intellectual capacity to encode. In the NZ hoax the center can clearly be seen from the air as two areas of damaged crop, which had any researchers been on-hand, would have immediately made them suspicious.

"no stake is placed on the ground. A team member holds the tape as the circle is made."

Interesting. If you take a look at the overhead footage shown, there are only three people involved, all working individually on each of the three legs of the design. To have someone hold a tape would therefore require six people. So this footage was shot seperately, a common trick. Besides, we now know each circle had already been staked out.

'communication is a series of silent signals, holding planks of wood in the air."

Ludicrous. Go into a field in the middle of the night, when anything 10 ft in front of you has as much luminescence as a lump of coal, and see if you can create a perfect geometrical alignment with your partner 980 ft on the opposite end (as was the case at the Triple Julia Set). This is laughable. At least, guys, make the planks white; oh, but then there wouldn't be much point in wearing black camouflage, would it?

"batting down by boards is what makes the intricate woven patterns that baffle researchers."

Lie. The only thing that batting down of plants makes is a field that looks like tufts of greasy, uncombed hair. Weaving- which is very much a real part of the real phenomenon- is created when up to five layers of plants are laid in counterflow to each other IN DISTINCT PATTERNS of lay, one below the other. This neans that crop has to be selectively flattened in one direction and again in another, and so on. No hoaxer has ever accomplished this, even in monitored trials during a competition in 1992. What is more impressive about the weaving is that since the stems are bent, steamed and rehardened into a new, permanent position, when you try and lift these layers back up, the still-undamaged plants break. One thing that will achieve this is a change in the earth's magnetic grid: the plants' roots are geotropic so they grow towards the source of gravity, ie. down. In genuine crop circles the plants roots have shifted sideways, suggesting an alteration to the magnetic grid, as proved by Colin Andrews in 2000.

"the circle makers aren't interested in sacred geometry. If it works out that the design means something to those who discover it all the better."

This is very poor disclosure on their part since sacred geometry is hard to encode in a canvas as imprecise as a wheat field, yet it has been proved that it exists. Sacred geometry, or Euclidian and Pythagorean geometry for that matter, relies on fixed mathematical values- it either exists or it doesn't. One simply cannot arrive at it by chance. By saying that all that geometry is a figment of our imagination they are, in essence, discrediting the whole field of maths and science, since sacred geometry is found at very basic levels of nature, even at the sub-atomic level. This admission will hurt these people in times to come since it establishes that they are not conversant with the fundamental elements of mathematics.

"having said that, the key to the crop circle is the tram lines- they are exactly 48 feet wide, which is divisible by 6- an important number in sacred geometry, and the circles in this formation are divisible by six."

Now they DO believe in sacred geometry. Please, someone make up their mind! But they are not talking geometry, they are talking NUMEROLOGY. The association of the 6 with sacred geometry is borne of one its forms; but the geometry generates the numbers, not the other way round, that's how it was taught by the ancient Egyptians. We have no way of checking if the tram line width was correct, but from personal experience the shortest tram width is 55 ft, with some as wide as 80 ft. The ludicrous thing is they made no attempt at overlaying any principles of geometry over their design, which would have made a more compelling argument- in fact no geometry was shown. From an overhead shot of the formation I can tell you that the basic hexagonal sacred geometry would not fit this design by any stretch of the imagination- the arms of their design were laid at the wrong angles.

"they made the jump from traditional artists to covert artists in 1994, when they first made crop circles."

In other words, they were made unemployed in 1994. By then, over 5000 formations worldwide had been discovered. Since then this group insinuated to have made several impressive formations in England, but none of their 'claims' are ever substantiated. In fact, all that is certain is that they have made only a couple of formations.

"making sure not to leave any incriminating evidence behind, they make a clean getaway,"

No doubt applauded by the large group of local people who had seen the event, as described by the local paper. We even know the hotel where they escaped to. Very corny indeed.

"the dark world of deception."

One which NBC, its backers, the producers of Unmasked: The Secrets of Deception", and their original source for this blatant piece of disinformation certainly live in, one no intelligent and responsible citizen should wish to associate with.

In the end, no research was shown, no comparative analysis permitted (the formation was immediately cut down), and no counterpoint was allowed by anyone unconnected with these criminals. To be fair, I was asked by John Ludberg to contribute any questions, which I did; not one made it on air.

There has never been a doubt that at least 30% of crop circles are hoaxes- a figure that rises and falls every year. In fact man made efforts have helped research differentiate what is attained by the real phenomenon and what isn't, despite the criminal nature of such people.

One thing this 'documentary' did get right was said right at the beginning: 'crop circles are one of the most misunderstood phenomena'.

With shows like these, it's no wonder.



Edited by Anonymous (12/09/01 06:16 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Anonymous

Re: Crop Circles [Re: ]
    #485161 - 12/09/01 05:26 PM (15 years, 5 days ago)

I still haven't found anything about them translating into music, do you have any links handy?


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Anonymous

Re: Crop Circles [Re: Anonymous]
    #485199 - 12/09/01 06:09 PM (15 years, 5 days ago)



Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Anonymous

Re: Crop Circles [Re: ]
    #485214 - 12/09/01 06:29 PM (15 years, 5 days ago)

sweet, thanks. and here's a little something for you...


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Anonymous

Re: Crop Circles [Re: Anonymous]
    #485256 - 12/09/01 07:09 PM (15 years, 5 days ago)

Heh... thanks Smack


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleJenny
part of thewhole
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/03/00
Posts: 5,614
Loc: Columbus, OHIO
Re: Crop Circles [Re: ]
    #485326 - 12/09/01 08:51 PM (15 years, 5 days ago)

So, where the hell could they come from?


--------------------

Mindfulness is the aware, balanced acceptance of the present experience.
It isn't more complicated than that.
It is opening to or recieving the present moment, pleasant or unpleasant, just as it is,
without either clinging to it or rejecting it.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Anonymous

Re: Crop Circles [Re: Jenny]
    #485330 - 12/09/01 08:59 PM (15 years, 5 days ago)

I'm not going to imply anything....






Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Anonymous

Re: Crop Circles [Re: Jenny]
    #485333 - 12/09/01 09:03 PM (15 years, 5 days ago)



Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinewintertime
enthusiast
Registered: 07/06/00
Posts: 146
Last seen: 13 years, 8 months
Re: Crop Circles [Re: ]
    #485339 - 12/09/01 09:08 PM (15 years, 5 days ago)

what would be the point of making crop circles? they don't seem to actually do anything..


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | Next >  [ show all ]

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Crop Circles on TLC
( 1 2 all )
Swami 1,870 24 04/28/13 08:54 PM
by OrgoneConclusion
* Crop Circles.
( 1 2 all )
Phluck 2,175 30 11/23/02 09:53 PM
by Swami
* Crop Circles Droz 828 16 02/02/04 05:31 PM
by barfightlard
* Radionics to Cymatics inducing Crop Circles by way of HAARP? Irradiated_Feces 1,337 8 06/25/05 11:29 AM
by Icelander
* crop circles (again... just for fun, i swear) Anonymous 912 18 02/11/02 03:19 AM
by Anonymous
* Pictures of a crop circle
( 1 2 all )
somebodyelse 1,680 22 07/08/03 01:47 PM
by johnnyfive
* Crop Circle's
( 1 2 all )
Giga_Funk 3,231 20 09/24/01 02:00 AM
by Anonymous
* Crop Circles in the News...
( 1 2 all )
Sclorch 1,754 21 08/05/02 08:54 AM
by tak_old

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, CosmicJoke, Diploid, DividedQuantum
6,307 topic views. 1 members, 1 guests and 8 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
Avalon Magic Plants
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2016 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.135 seconds spending 0.004 seconds on 18 queries.