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Re: For Atheists... [Re: Veritas]
    #5891203 -

Christian-sponsored hospitals, clinics, schools, colleges, homeless shelters, halfway houses, and other educational and charitable organizations by far outnumber secular-sponsored ones. Christian charity exceeds secular charity by incredible amounts. Yet, Christianity is only twice the size of secular group. (~2 billion Christians/~1 billion non-religious).

It's a fact, religious people practice charity better than non-religious people. This has been proved over and over.

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Re: For Atheists... [Re: spud]
    #5891218 -

Let's not kid ourselves. There are no 2 billion christians, maybe a couple of thousands, the rest are just hypocrites


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Re: For Atheists... [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5891223 -

That makes the charitable contributions in the name of Christianity even more impressive then, if only a small % is to credit.

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Re: For Atheists... [Re: spud]
    #5891229 -

I don't really think the animals are being that greedy. There is a lot of demand for certain natural resources from various animals right before the winter starts. There isn't a huge supply. They take what they can get, which very often isn't enough.

Humans on the other hand, we have starving people in many, many countries, yet we dump perfectly good food in the ocean solely because of greed for money. We have enough resources for everyone, but some people horde them. Accordingly, there isn't enough for everyone, so some resort to theft, some to violence, others resign and die.


--------------------
"Now that the principalities and the powers stockpile weapons of mass destruction, contaminate the earth with their feverish industry, release floods of images to trigger insatiable desires, treat animals and humans as commodities and functions of a market, the devil must be grinning from ear to ear."

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Re: For Atheists... [Re: spud]
    #5891234 -

spud said:
That makes the charitable contributions in the name of Christianity even more impressive then, if only a small % is to credit.


It's so easy to throw money, you just have to have it, and then throw it. That's not charity, it's money throwing


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Re: For Atheists... [Re: Fractalated]
    #5891240 -

Fractalated said:
I don't really think the animals are being that greedy. There is a lot of demand for certain natural resources from various animals right before the winter starts. There isn't a huge supply. They take what they can get, which very often isn't enough.

Humans on the other hand, we have starving people in many, many countries, yet we dump perfectly good food in the ocean solely because of greed for money. We have enough resources for everyone, but some people horde them. Accordingly, there isn't enough for everyone, so some resort to theft, some to violence, others resign and die.


And why do you blame them? If the hungry can't correct this "injustice" then they deserve to be hungry. That's nature.
In nature you always get what you deserve


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Re: For Atheists... [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5891244 -

In my experience with the church, very often you find those with the least giving the most.

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Re: For Atheists... [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5891251 -

I don't blame them. I blame those who horde and who give in to unwholesome greed and covetousness.


--------------------
"Now that the principalities and the powers stockpile weapons of mass destruction, contaminate the earth with their feverish industry, release floods of images to trigger insatiable desires, treat animals and humans as commodities and functions of a market, the devil must be grinning from ear to ear."

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Re: For Atheists... [Re: spud]
    #5891258 -

spud said:
In my experience with the church, very often you find those with the least giving the most.


well accoarding to these people you are eithre delusional or are lying


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Re: For Atheists... [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5891263 -

According to who exactly? I haven't read this thread in it's entirety.

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Re: For Atheists... [Re: Fractalated]
    #5891277 -

Fractalated said:
I don't blame them. I blame those who horde and who give in to unwholesome greed and covetousness.


Why do you blame them?

You know why I think you blaim them? Because even if you don't see it, religious concepts are hardwired inside of your head.
You were conditioned to judge. Nature doesn't judge, only people who think there is some universal law judge, and those people taught you how to think


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Re: For Atheists... [Re: spud]
    #5891285 -

spud said:
According to who exactly? I haven't read this thread in it's entirety.


Well most atheists I've talked to keep saying how concept of god does not help humanity, yet it's funny because their wery idea of what it means to "help" is conditioned by religious collective consciousness (through culture, raising etc.)


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Re: For Atheists... [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5891287 -

OldWoodSpecter said:
spud said:
In my experience with the church, very often you find those with the least giving the most.


well accoarding to these people you are eithre delusional or are lying


"These people"?  To whom are you referring?  You are the only person posting in this thread who claims that humans are violent, selfish animals who refrain from bloody murder only because they fear God or a gunshot wound.  :rolleyes:

By percentage of income, I have heard that those in lower income brackets do donate more than the middle and upper income brackets.  Go figure.  Perhaps their struggles have helped them develop compassion for the less fortunate.  :shrug:

Whether religion teaches compassion is debatable, however.

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Re: For Atheists... [Re: Veritas]
    #5891303 -

It's debatable because religion is far too broad of scope. Same can be said for philosophy, I can reference some prolific Nazi/fascist philosophers who published a great deal of literature. I can also reference prolific philosophers who published incredibly beneficial moral theories.

Religion is inanimate, compassion is animate. It's the teachers who give religion life, and it rests in the hands of the teachers to illustrate compassion in their lives. Whether the teacher be the individual or a third party, is irrelevant.

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Re: For Atheists... [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5891304 -

OldWoodSpecter said:
spud said:
According to who exactly? I haven't read this thread in it's entirety.


Well most atheists I've talked to keep saying how concept of god does not help humanity, yet it's funny because their wery idea of what it means to "help" is conditioned by religious collective consciousness (through culture, raising etc.)


Yes, there is no way for humans to understand what it means to help someone without religious indoctrination.  :rolleyes:

If someone is suffering, a compassionate, empathetic human will desire to alleviate their suffering.  Where is the religion in this?

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Re: For Atheists... [Re: Veritas]
    #5891308 -

Not because they FEAR god, but because they believe in right and wrong given by god, because they believe some things matter outside the mind of human beings.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Re: For Atheists... [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5891315 -

On the subject of Christian charity - Warren Buffet - "I did not subscribe to my family's religion. Even at a young age I was too mathematical, too logical, to make the leap of faith. I adopted my father's ethical underpinnings, but not his belief in an unseen divinity". Bill Gates - "The specific elements of Christianity are not something I'm a huge believer in." QED

OldWoodSpecter - you have an extremely negitive view of the world, that might be improved by excersize.
How monkeys behave - Bonobo apes are non(minimally)-violent social apes - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonobo#Social_behavior
Bonobos and common chimpanzies are our closest cousins in the animal world, each sharing about 98.5% common DNA. Chimps are notoriously violent, but Bonobo's are not.

Social behavior is not predicted by religion. Many religious people are liers and cheats, and many more non-religious are honest, non-violent, and kind.


To get finally to the initial question - I don't consider myself an atheist, but I do disbelieve in the Christian/Jewish/Muslim god. As for why, see the Warren Buffet quote above - I have simply never believed.

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Re: For Atheists... [Re: Veritas]
    #5891316 -

Veritas said:
OldWoodSpecter said:
spud said:
According to who exactly? I haven't read this thread in it's entirety.


Well most atheists I've talked to keep saying how concept of god does not help humanity, yet it's funny because their wery idea of what it means to "help" is conditioned by religious collective consciousness (through culture, raising etc.)


Yes, there is no way for humans to understand what it means to help someone without religious indoctrination.  :rolleyes:

If someone is suffering, a compassionate, empathetic human will desire to alleviate their suffering.  Where is the religion in this?


I give up, you are right and I am wrong.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Re: For Atheists... [Re: Veritas]
    #5891325 -

Alleviation of suffering is something most sane beings will do IMO, it's not even an issue of being a very compassion person. What religion offers is going beyond simple compassion, and that is charity. Charity requires a certain level of empathy usually not made apparent in the secular without the divine. The incredibly high levels of charity in relation to religion are proof of this, as are the incredibly low levels of charity in comparison when in relation to the non-religious.

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Re: For Atheists... [Re: spud]
    #5891326 -

spud said:
Religion is inanimate, compassion is animate. It's the teachers who give religion life, and it rests in the hands of the teachers to illustrate compassion in their lives. Whether the teacher be the individual or a third party, is irrelevant.


I agree. I would add that compassion exists with or without belief in God, or the practice of a religion. The same is true for ethics, self-discipline, philanthropy, etc...

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