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Owning the earth, and other blasphemies against nature
    #5335325 -

When did people get the idea that this planet we all live on is something that can be conquered and partitioned among the elite? Why is it that someone can hold a piece of land for randsom when they had no part in creating it? People didn't always think this way. People used to have a concept of stewardship over the Earth, rather than ownership. Earth, our celestial mother, should not be conquered and sold to the highest bidder. It is our common inheritance, and we should treat it as such.


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Re: Owning the earth, and other blasphemies against nature [Re: Silversoul]
    #5335351 -

Don't know when it started, but I'm sure the ancient Egyptians were one of the first to do it.  They were the first to have surveyors!  I'm a surveyor, and every day all I do is find/establish/prove boundaries.  Which is ironic, since I'm drawn to mushrooms that dissolve boundaries. :smile:

The partitioning of land is nothing new.  Detailed records are kept concerning such divisions in the county clerk of court's office near you.


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You are the microcosm of the macrocosm.

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Re: Owning the earth, and other blasphemies against nature [Re: NariusFractal]
    #5335392 -

Yes, it's true that as long as there have been permanent settlements, there has been a need for a land on which to build. But what is a somewhat newer is the idea of absentee land ownership -- that you can own land without actually using it yourself, and extort money out of people for the right to use it. The Iroquois had quite a different system: you could take a piece of land on which to grow crops and live, but as soon as you abandoned it, it was up for grabs. The idea that land could be bought and sold was ludicrous to them.


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Re: Owning the earth, and other blasphemies against nature [Re: Silversoul]
    #5335583 -

It still happens, just in a different way. Then, the mode of living was harvesting and hunting, today its acquiring money to feed and house yourself. If we don't pay taxes, sometimes it results in said properties becoming forfeit. "Up for grabs" so to say.We are mammals. 99% of land mammals are territorial.

It's in our "nature" to be that way. Do natural predators worry about eating natural prey into extinction? No. They care about eating,lol. Whether it is a carnivorous mammal or an herbivore. It's just "natural" for us to be this way.

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Re: Owning the earth, and other blasphemies against nature [Re: Silversoul]
    #5335590 -

There's nothing wrong in having "your own place". We shouldn't blame the entire process, which comes from needs - needs from having something to protect you when it rains, cold out side or it snows, to needs like privacy and intimacy -.
What is wrong is what it came to. I'm not naming the problems because we all know them and It would be just a waste of time, problems which have several reasons as the loss of sense of adventure like changing your place, the greed, the uncertainty which leads of feeling the urge to rule and dominate and so on.
We did it to ourselves throughout the history and we still do it. And it won't stop until we come clear with ourselves. Until we learn to appreciate the real values in life and until we get rid of fear.


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:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: Owning the earth, and other blasphemies against nature [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #5335622 -

In most socially progressed mammals, there is a structure of hierarchy or alpha members. We put this off to nothing more than him wanting to pass on his genes before the rest of the males. But, what other expressions does he exhibit? Well, he also eats first. Isn't this "greed"?

And like I said. Do they limit they're intake of surrounding prey? No. If they eat all they can hunt in an area, they move on to another. Hell, even dogs lay claim to a territory they might never see again in their life. Its just the effect of self preservation. Not societal preservation.

In a sense, to sum it all up...it's just natural for us to be this way. We are no smarter than the animals we "own".

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Re: Owning the earth, and other blasphemies against nature [Re: FungusMan]
    #5335891 -

I'm not saying we can't stake out our own place to build and to work, but it is the idea that that place is forever ours regardless of whether or not we use it that is against nature. It is true that many animals will mark their territory, but when they move on, they leave that site behind, and others move in. Meanwhile, if someone buys an empty plot of land, he doesn't have to make any use of it himself in order to hang onto it. The government will back up his claim to that fallow land. And he can charge others to use it, or keep it out of use while it appreciates in value(due to development being forced outward) until he decides to sell it at a higher price than he paid for it, despite not having put any effort of his own into it. There is a difference between staking out a piece of land for personal use vs. holding it for randsom.


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Re: Owning the earth, and other blasphemies against nature [Re: Silversoul]
    #5335995 -

Paradigm said:
There is a difference between staking out a piece of land for personal use vs. holding it for randsom.


with so many people subscribing to the existence of capitalism. u have to expect EVERYTHING to be for sale. people today are born indebted to society. there is no space left. they are born on private property. they may own themselves but their livelyhoods are costly.


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"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma

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Re: Owning the earth, and other blasphemies against nature [Re: BleaK]
    #5336587 -

I don't have a problem with people owning a piece of the earth, whether they use it personally or not, mainly due to the fact that because they own it, they have an incentive to improve it. I always think back to the 'tragedy of the commons', where a resource shared by all ends up being exploited because nobody has any incentive to make sure that it stays in good condition. Without ownership, and the enforcement of ownership, the earth would literally be pillaged by people looking for short term gain until nothing was left.

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Re: Owning the earth, and other blasphemies against nature [Re: robmac9090]
    #5336764 -

I suspect that in this thread, I'll have to repeatedly drive home the point about property vs. possession.


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Re: Owning the earth, and other blasphemies against nature [Re: Silversoul]
    #5336785 -

BTW, while many people are aware of the tragedy of the commons, few are aware of the equally dangerous tragedy of the anticommons. BTW, Garrett Hardin once said that if he knew so many people would abuse the phrase "tragedy of the commons," he would have renamed his essay "Tragedy of the Unregulated Commons," as he himself was quite critical of the institution of land ownership.


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Re: Owning the earth, and other blasphemies against nature [Re: Silversoul]
    #5337035 -

I may simply be ignorant of the subject, but aside from any ethical considerations, it seems like its workin fine.

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Re: Owning the earth, and other blasphemies against nature [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5337039 -

MushmanTheManic said:
I may simply be ignorant of the subject, but aside from any ethical considerations, it seems like its workin fine.


If you think so, I suggest reading The Losses of Nations by Fred Harrison. You might be particularly interested in the section on how land speculation crippled Japan's economy.


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Re: Owning the earth, and other blasphemies against nature [Re: Silversoul]
    #5337046 -

I shall add it to my que.

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Re: Owning the earth, and other blasphemies against nature [Re: Silversoul]
    #5337162 -

Paradigm said:
When did people get the idea that this planet we all live on is something that can be conquered and partitioned among the elite?  Why is it that someone can hold a piece of land for randsom when they had no part in creating it? 


People got this idea when they attempted to do so and were successful in doing so. Why is it? Because we have the ability to identify an aspect of reality, assert that it is within our possession, and form a system that confirms it in regards to anyone else that is capable of doing the same thing, be it by holding a gun or creating a system of laws and regulations that make it so.

Does that clear it up? :wink:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Owning the earth, and other blasphemies against nature [Re: Silversoul]
    #5337169 -

empowerment..


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Disclaimer!?

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Re: Owning the earth, and other blasphemies against nature [Re: Silversoul]
    #5337232 -

You're right, we have abused our privelages, and as a result, we have become terribly unbalanced as a whole. Its a lesson to be learned (already learned, for some). Balance will be in order, soon. Its kind of hard to keep almost 7 billion hungry faces satisfied and driving cars.

The picture we have painted is a mess... it would be too difficult and uncomfortable to resolve it harmoniously, and so another picture must be started. Wipe the slate clean, so-to-speak.

I went to my local Barnes and Nobles book store, headed towards the Science section and to my surprise within 5 minutes I found 6 books predicting an upcoming energy crisis (7 if I count the book I found predicting China's future behavior). I already knew about this for awhile, though. So instead of buying those books, I bought a US Army Survival Manual and I am now practicing methods in the book. I also bought a super lightweight portable hammock, and a Blast Match (a steel/magesium alloy bar that causes very hot sparks to start fires). Just thought I'd share that misc. info. to you.


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As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.

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Re: Owning the earth, and other blasphemies against nature [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5337834 -

Perhaps I should clarified my first post: Obviously we have established a system of land ownership, but what is the logic behind it? By what right can we claim as our own a piece of the Earth which we had no part in creating? By all logic, we belong to the Earth, not the other way around.


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Re: Owning the earth, and other blasphemies against nature [Re: Silversoul]
    #5337905 -

Paradigm said:
Perhaps I should clarified my first post:  Obviously we have established a system of land ownership, but what is the logic behind it?


The logic behind it is such that we have the ability to proclaim that a section of land or any other object determined by our boundaries is ours, and that we have the ability to have that right reserved by others.

The right exists by nothing other than our declaration of it and the fact that we uphold it.

Quote:
By what right can we claim as our own a piece of the Earth which we had no part in creating?  By all logic, we belong to the Earth, not the other way around.


By the right we take. As we create for ourselves a sense of ownership and maintain that sense, we give ourselves the right to hold our sense of ownership. There, quite obviously, is no objective sense of ownership (just as there is no objective sense of anything). :wink:

By all logic, we do not belong to the earth, as a sense of ownership is not logical in an ultimate sense.

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Owning the earth, and other blasphemies against nature [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5338059 -

So then, are you saying that might makes right?


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