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Invisiblekaiowas
mndfrayze'speppet urme
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Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,498
Loc: oz
owning earth
    #2265174 - 01/23/04 10:21 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

land is something to be owned these days. Land is worth more in one place than in the other. things keep going up too, and it makes me sad sometimes. is it rediculous for me to think that actually putting a price tag on a piece of earth is absurd?? I wonder who thought this up originally. And the price keeps going up, hehe we live on inflation.

how does one really put worth on a piece of property like that?

we have territories, and invisible boundary lines that keep up seperated. when did this whole planet stop becoming a whole planet? no, I look at a globe and see this large puzzle, some pieces are larger than the others, all color coordinated. i don't really mind giving places names, I see the reason in that, but when did it stop becoming a whole planet?

In Jerusalem, this land is called holy? how is this one piece of land holy, and the amazon rainforest not?? Are we thinking about priorities, or is this just a pipe dream?

everyone so concerned with land, and yet no one wants to look at the earth, just want their piece of the pie. so what happens when there are too many of us?? where does that lead us?

Just last thought, I always remember seeing as a child the image of louis armstrong holding the american flag on the moon, how absurd. American 2 ladies and gentlemen....


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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Offlinegnrm23
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/30/99
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Re: owning earth [Re: kaiowas]
    #2265354 - 01/23/04 11:58 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

i always had an image of louis arstrong playing the trumpet...
& neil armstrong stepping onto the moon


heh...


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
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Re: owning earth [Re: kaiowas]
    #2265382 - 01/23/04 12:10 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

> I always remember seeing as a child the image of louis armstrong holding the american flag on the moon, how absurd.

Wow... education has really gone downhill...

Though I do understand the point you are trying to make. Dr. Seuss has a good book called "Yertle Turtle" that makes a fairly good satire of your point.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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Offlinegreenhaze
one toke overthe line

Registered: 06/03/02
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Re: owning earth [Re: kaiowas]
    #2265439 - 01/23/04 12:34 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

i agree that it would be better if we could all just sit back, smoke a doob, and share the earth, but taking up territory is a part of human nature.
we may be advanced in some ways, but we're still animals and have to mark our territory, and because we're advanced, we're greedy...


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InvisibleDoctorJ
Stranger
 Arcade Champion: Frogger

Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,451
Loc: space
Re: owning earth [Re: kaiowas]
    #2265469 - 01/23/04 01:02 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I remember when Lance A rmstrong and Buzz Lightyear landed on the moon.  that wuz cool :nut:


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: owning earth [Re: kaiowas]
    #2265761 - 01/23/04 02:38 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Dogs mark their territory by excreting urine along the landscape. Humans mark their territory by excreting ink on paper with images meant to represent the landscape...
(paraphrased from Robert Anton Wilson)


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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OfflineShizpow
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Registered: 03/06/03
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Loc: Oregon
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Re: owning earth [Re: kaiowas]
    #2265909 - 01/23/04 03:48 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

If you think land ownership is bad, wait a little while until fresh water becomes a privately owned commodity. There are already people saying that in the next hundred years, water will become like oil is today. Pay to live, ain't that a bitch?


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If you cut a face lengthwise, urinate on it, and trample on it with straw sandles, it is said that the skin will come off. This was heard by the priest Gyojaku when he was in Kyoto. It is information to be treasured.


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
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Re: owning earth [Re: Shizpow]
    #2266039 - 01/23/04 04:36 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Shizpow said:
Pay to live, ain't that a bitch?



There is and always has been a price to be paid for maintaining life. Either you directly expend the effort for a particular thing, or you trade your efforts via the medium of exchange known as 'money' or 'barter' to obtain something you do not want to directly work for.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: owning earth [Re: greenhaze]
    #2266242 - 01/23/04 05:35 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

i agree that it would be better if we could all just sit back, smoke a doob

you actually put your finger on part of the problem..in order to grow enough plants for everyone to smoke a doob..you need a plot of land to grow them on...even if that land is not privately owned..the "price" is the value of whatever else could have been grown there...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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Offlinewhite_light
being of love
Registered: 12/27/03
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Re: owning earth [Re: kaiowas]
    #2266454 - 01/23/04 06:38 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

the reason we own land is so that guys with bigger guns and greater numbers can't take away the work we put into it (like building a house, clearing area for agriculture).

It's all very nice that we shouldn't own land, but I'd take legal ownership of a piece of land over just hangin out smoking doobs (not that I think we shouldn't do that too). When you have the legal entightlement to a piece of land then you have the law and police on your side, so should a bunch of hippies pull up and decide they want to commandeer your house and pasture to become their little commune, you can call upon the police and the community to repulse them, which in 99.99999% of cases will be absolutely peaceful. Otherwise, you'll have to kill them with your bare hands.

Q: "how does one really put worth on a piece of property like that?"

The value of a piece of land is determined by how much people are willing to pay for it.

Q:"how is this one piece of land holy, and the amazon rainforest not?"

Jerusalem is holy because of the history of certain religions. You don't have to consider it holy, but some people do.

Q:"so what happens when there are too many of us?? where does that lead us?"

That would drive the price of real-estate up.

I can see what you're saying, obviously, but what you fail to acknowledge is that the whole concept of land ownership comes from a formalization of the natural tendencies of humanity. If you want to do away with all borders and property lines then you should also be ready to defend whatever structures you may build or land you may till to the death.

Your other option is to allow whoever to walk all over you and take advantage of your hard work by plundering your grain stash and harvesting the pelts and meat from your livestock. Ideally there wouldn't exist parasitic evil people, but.. I'm afraid they'll always be there.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
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Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: owning earth [Re: kaiowas]
    #2266491 - 01/23/04 06:50 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I was thinking about this today. The Native Americans and the Aborigines of Australia had no concept of land ownership, and because of this they both ended up getting fucked over by people who did, namely the Europeans. I think when you're nomadic, there's no use for private property, and such a concept can actually be counter-productive. However, in the society we live in, where we live in buildings which we can't pack up and take with us, I can't see how we could survive without private property.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisiblekaiowas
mndfrayze'speppet urme
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Registered: 07/14/03
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Re: owning earth [Re: kaiowas]
    #2266724 - 01/23/04 08:33 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

:lol:


yeah it was neil man!!!!! I'm sorry, doesn't mean the education has went to shit, or does it???

hehe thanks for keeping me on my toes!!!


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Registered: 09/01/02
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Re: owning earth [Re: kaiowas]
    #2266874 - 01/23/04 10:19 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I agree with Kaiowas. The concept of land ownership is ridiculous. There's a difference between territorialism and ownership. When an animal, say a pack of wolves, holds a territory they're saying "this is the area in which i hunt and sleep, you aren't allowed to come here." This message is to other wolves only. The wolf doesn't consider all that happens to be in that area as thier property. When we "own" a patch of land we assume it means we can do whatever we want to all the other life forms living in it. We aren't just saying "this is where i find food and sleep, i won't let you compete with me here" we're saying "i can do whatever the fuck i want to this patch of the earth because it and all nonhumans that reside on it are my personal belongings."


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OfflineKokserek
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Registered: 01/19/04
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Re: owning earth [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #2267469 - 01/24/04 04:24 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

do you deny the practical aspects of land ownership white light is talking about? Are you wishing that it didn't have to be so or denying that it has to be so? Would you rather live in this world minus the concept of land ownership?


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Invisiblekaiowas
mndfrayze'speppet urme
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Re: owning earth [Re: white_light]
    #2267769 - 01/24/04 09:18 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

white light I agree with you, because that's the way humans are, I understand this.

I was just saying that the idea itself based on its own principle is annoying. like you said, it depends on how much people pay for it. Like things here in california are crazy, a one bedroom apartment now costs more than what my parents pay for their mortgage. that's sad.

i guess it would boil down to everyone having an understanding, and that won't happen soon.

The reason I brought it up in the first place is that people are killing each other for land, for their boundaries. one person says this land is theirs, and the other says the same thing, all because there is an idea in their heads that this ground means something, other than the fact "it's a part of earth"

I mean does it all have to boil down fighting and taking away? shouldn't we strive to be something more than that?


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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InvisibleClean
the lense
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Registered: 05/11/03
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Re: owning earth [Re: kaiowas]
    #2267823 - 01/24/04 10:21 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

I mean does it all have to boil down fighting and taking away? shouldn't we strive to be something more than that?




i think we do.
unfortunately the people at the other end of the spectrum don't see it that way. those same people also think they own a lot of property and wealth.
it also doesn't help that we've elected them to power in the past because they convinced enough of us that they were actually working for us instead of using us (mainly our tax money). of course when they didn't have enough people convinced anymore, they rigged the election.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
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Re: owning earth [Re: kaiowas]
    #2268484 - 01/24/04 04:40 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I agree with you, Kaiowas. And the longer we say that "this way HAS to be this way because of that, and that is this, this is that", the longer the water stagnates....

The more the idea is implanted into people that this is all for us to share and that we influence our actions with an idea of compassion, and find a balance between our individual perspective and the whole, the faster we will get out of this Hell we are still in...

I always find it hilarious when people "consider" an idea like this. They think that the transistion would be made immediately and then they say that is impossible, and therefore the idea isn't going to work and that things should stay the way they are. Crazy, flawed logic. A river doesn't make 180 degree turns. Change is flowing and takes time.


in?te?grate ( P ) Pronunciation Key (nt-grt)
v. inte?grat?ed, inte?grat?ing, inte?grates
v. tr.
To make into a whole by bringing all parts together; unify.

To join with something else; unite.
To make part of a larger unit: integrated the new procedures into the work routine.


What if we took our position in this whole land ownership at this current time and begin to make small changes in the way things run and ideas are spread in order to start to steer things in a positive direction? You have to learn how to walk before you can run, Rome wasn't built in a day, etc. ad infinitum...
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineNiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
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Re: owning earth [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2268745 - 01/24/04 06:25 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:


I always find it hilarious when people "consider" an idea like this. They think that the transistion would be made immediately and then they say that is impossible, and therefore the idea isn't going to work and that things should stay the way they are. Crazy, flawed logic. A river doesn't make 180 degree turns. Change is flowing and takes time.




Thank you! That drives me crazy as well.


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Invisiblekaiowas
mndfrayze'speppet urme
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Registered: 07/14/03
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Re: owning earth [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2268789 - 01/24/04 06:47 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

This is one earth, and we are one species. a big part of the serperation that occures is who's land is whos. what's the difference between borders?? how is .000000001 cm of land make it holy or not?? that's what I'm saying, it doesn't really fit well with me, does it fit well with anyone here?

why not be one species on one plantet. people are like, I am an AMERICAN. nah screw that...I'll be Canadian then. why canadian?? well why American?? why not just an earthling?? I live and breath the air this planet gives me. and remember that, it GIVEs it to us. If we work with it, I think we'll be way better off as a species. at least this way we are all citizens of this earth, not part of a citizen


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
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Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: owning earth [Re: kaiowas]
    #2268803 - 01/24/04 06:53 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)



Sorry.  Couldn't resist. :grin:


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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