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Offlinegribochek
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Registered: 04/19/99
Posts: 286
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
Miracle-blindness
    #531482 - 01/26/02 12:34 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

As I was making a post to another topic I desided to make this a separate thread. The goal is to describe miracles and observe how Swami agonises at trying to disregard them. I propose that only simple and obvious examples be presented, no aliens or end of the world, just the stuff from everyday life. I would be surprized if we here on a spirituality board were unable to punch this guy into pulp with evidence (or die of laughter trying).

I suggest several random things (without order or topic)

1. Miracle of life. Science has been so busy explaining evolution with pure play of chance, and it has shrowded in silence the simple fact that over all these countless years it hasn't produced a single living thing even as simple as a virus or bacteria.

2. Miracle of dreams. Who is the seer of dreams and where is he located?

3. Miracle of the speed of light. Why is the speed of light exactly 299 792 458 m/c but not 238 357 854?

4. Miracle of society (language, government, economy, add your own). Given the currently known basic physical laws it is so improbable that such higher-order things would arize, I mean it is so freegin damn absolutely improbable, that it is not even funny. Yet, they do. Why?

5. The miracle of the unknown. If the miracles 1 and 4 indeed come about to be, then what other things might be around? Aliens? To me, the idea of aliens is just a riduculous parody to what might really be out there... No?

Of course I could go on like this for hours. Anyone else care to join?



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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Miracle-blindness [Re: gribochek]
    #531535 - 01/26/02 01:22 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

The goal is to describe miracles and observe how Swami agonises at trying to disregard them.
Wow. I am totally flattered. This is the first thread dedicated to me *blushes*. However, to date I have felt no agony in responding to the generally outlandish claims here.

just the stuff from everyday life.
Please read my response on the 2012 thread. Everyday stuff may indeed be mysterious, but falls short of the definition of miraculous.

I would be surprized if we here on a spirituality board were unable to punch this guy inot pulp...
That doesn't sound like a spiritual stance to me. Somehow I thought these boards were about topics, but when people can't refute a point, seems that many want  to turn it into a personal confrontation. Well bring out the big guns and give it your best shot :blush:

I am not sure what your point is with your examples. They are interesting and fun ideas to ponder and research. No one, least of all me, claims to have the answers. Remember though, the unknown is not necessarily miraculous.


     


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineskaMariaPastora
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Registered: 03/15/01
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Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
Re: Miracle-blindness [Re: gribochek]
    #531570 - 01/26/02 02:05 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

The fact that we are conscious. Science can't even begin to explain why we exist as conscious, self-contemplating entities.


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Offlinemissulena
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Registered: 05/26/01
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Re: Miracle-blindness [Re: skaMariaPastora]
    #531600 - 01/26/02 02:46 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Do you think being conscious and understanding yourself helps your chance of survival in anyway no matter how slight or do you think you could do without it and have the same chance of surviving as someone who is conscious and aware?
Natural selection and passing on the genes is what its all about.


Edited by missulena (01/26/02 03:03 AM)


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Invisibletak
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Re: Miracle-blindness [Re: missulena]
    #531610 - 01/26/02 03:01 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

what does the speed of light thing mean?
3. Miracle of the speed of light. Why is the speed of light exactly 299 792 458 m/c but not 238 357 854?

is the second a random number, or what cause i dont know anything about it.

I was thinking about blindness the other day and how people cannot see colors..weird. But then what about dreams, i dream in color. Oh well. Also. My friend is coming to visit me this spring break, she has never been WEST...she says she hates hte heat...shes never experiances heat without humidity...i kinda assiciated that with blindness


--------------------
The DJ's took pills to stay awake and play for seven days.


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OfflineArCh_TemPlaR
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Registered: 07/15/01
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Re: Miracle-blindness [Re: gribochek]
    #531616 - 01/26/02 03:06 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Uhmm.. About Swami, he's amusing. :smile:

Miracles?  Well, it's late, my system is about to shut down, here's the shorite:

I use this high-grade quality ginseng.  I heard this product was used by a very young child (9 years old) who had a brain tumor.  The tumor has gone into remission, vamooshed.  One of these days, I'm going to see this child for myself.

Anyways, this ginseng I have takes 6 years of cultivation, and it's not cheap!


KtP
ArCh


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OfflineskaMariaPastora
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Registered: 03/15/01
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Re: Miracle-blindness [Re: missulena]
    #531617 - 01/26/02 03:07 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Why would understanding calculus or figuring out the process of nuclear fusion help our survival in the jungle? If consciousness could be explained physically then we should have at least some theories about it.

I don't really know what I'm arguing about I'm pretty stoned right now, but I think the point is that there are plenty of things that modern science can't explain so just because science can't explain something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. ... agreed?


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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
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Re: Miracle-blindness [Re: skaMariaPastora]
    #531658 - 01/26/02 04:11 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Nothing matters any more. I fell in love tonight and THAT is the ultimate miracle!


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinemissulena
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Registered: 05/26/01
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Re: Miracle-blindness [Re: skaMariaPastora]
    #531660 - 01/26/02 04:18 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Who would you rather helping you if you were on a stranded island -Einstein(a hypothetical einstein who was raised in the jungle) or a native with average mental ability?

Science can explain right now most of the things discussed in this forum but current SCIENTISTS today cant explain some things in this universe but it will al l be very clear in the near future to those not caught up in myth and magical fantasies. I think most scientists wouldnt even take many of these thoughts seriously thats why some questions are left unanswered.


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InvisibleMy Third Eye
old hand

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Registered: 11/03/00
Posts: 641
Re: Miracle-blindness [Re: Swami]
    #531712 - 01/26/02 07:36 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

why is it that when things are known or proven by science they are considered not miraculous?..life in itself is miraculous to me..


--------------------
suddenly a flaming stealth banana split the sky
like one would hope but never really expect
to see in a place like this.
Cutting right angle donuts on a dime
and stopping right at my Birkenstocks,
and me yelping...Holy fucking shit!


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OfflineLOBO
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Registered: 03/19/01
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Re: Miracle-blindness [Re: Swami]
    #531729 - 01/26/02 08:21 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)



So now I see...., you just need it some zig-zig !


--------------------


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OfflineDivine_Madness
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Registered: 12/11/01
Posts: 182
Loc: The Netherlands
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
Re: Miracle-blindness [Re: gribochek]
    #531770 - 01/26/02 09:47 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Well, what I find to be very miraculess is the amount of people believing the pole shift and 2012 predictions blindly. How people blindly believe what shroomism and others are telling. And how even I can fall for this stuff at times.


--------------------
its all placebo


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Anonymous

Re: Miracle-blindness [Re: Swami]
    #531784 - 01/26/02 10:27 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)


Nothing matters any more. I fell in love tonight and THAT is the ultimate miracle!


Indeed! Love is the greatest thing.
I'm happy for you


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OfflineskaMariaPastora
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Re: Miracle-blindness [Re: missulena]
    #531793 - 01/26/02 10:47 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

>Science can explain right now most of the things discussed in this forum but current SCIENTISTS
>today cant explain some things in this universe but it will al l be very clear in the near future to those
>not caught up in myth and magical fantasies.

Galileo once had a "magical fantasy" about a heliocentric solar system and he also was ridiculed for his beliefs. Why don't people learn that the boundaries of what is known are being constantly pushed forward? What is a myth today (the 4th dimension, etc) could be something that is well known and understood a few years down the road. If we believe in only what we know today then there will be no chance for any progress.


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Offlinegribochek
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Registered: 04/19/99
Posts: 286
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
Re: Miracle-blindness [Re: Swami]
    #531831 - 01/26/02 11:24 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Oh, no! He must have met Shroomism!

So, now, let's see... The amount of adrenaline raises every time the object is in close proximity. This must be due to the sympathetic nervous function. The erection you experience is due to the increased blood pressure in the pelvic area. Dreaming of the object of your passion must be due to subconscious brain activity while the brain chemistry is replenishing itself. Really, I must conclude you are not in love at all, this is all just body chemistry and instinctual desire to procreate. If you try to claim that you are not attracted to any other person, then I will claim this is an illusion caused by social conditioning and pherromonal compatibility with this particular object.

This is called miracle elimination. It is the primary goal of modern science. Try arguing with that.

-- Grib

P.S. I am happy for you.


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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Miracle-blindness [Re: skaMariaPastora]
    #531869 - 01/26/02 12:21 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Galileo once had a "magical fantasy" about a heliocentric solar system and he also was ridiculed for his beliefs. Why don't people learn that the boundaries of what is known are being constantly pushed forward?
There is a huge disparity between a theory and a fantasy. Galileo studied the cosmos for years and tried to puzzle out the discrepancies in others' theories regarding the movement of celestial bodies.

The 4th dimensional shift is based on nothing at all. There is not one single piece of external data on which to form a hypothesis.

I sincerely hope that you can grok the difference.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Miracle-blindness [Re: Swami]
    #531873 - 01/26/02 12:23 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Nothing matters any more. I fell in love tonight and THAT is the ultimate miracle!
Yes, I discovered a new object called a "mirror".


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSwami
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Posts: 15,413
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Re: Miracle-blindness [Re: missulena]
    #531878 - 01/26/02 12:31 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Who would you rather helping you if you were on a stranded island -Einstein(a hypothetical einstein who was raised in the jungle) or a native with average mental ability?
Here you describe a classic misconception. A scientist is not just one who devotes hie entire career to research and is recognized as such by society-at-large, but anyone who follows the scientific method. When you bake a cake or grow mushrooms, you are practicing science.

Said native is a scientist in his own right. He has used observation, trial & error and deduction. He will be able to tell you when the monsoon season is about to start, which plant leaves to rub on your skin to take away the sting of a poisonous insect, the habits of the prey that he hunts, how to weave a basket, etc.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Anonymous

Re: Miracle-blindness [Re: Swami]
    #531880 - 01/26/02 12:31 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

The 4th dimensional shift is based on nothing at all. There is not one single piece of external data on which to form a hypothesis.

Says who?
Are you familiar with sub-atomic particles and the rate at which they vibrate?
Did you know that rate is increasing?


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InvisibleRevelation

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Registered: 08/04/01
Posts: 6,134
Loc: heart cave
Re: Miracle-blindness [Re: gribochek]
    #531891 - 01/26/02 12:43 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

The miracle of music and our appreciation of it.


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