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OfflinePhluck
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I want to debate a "creation scientist".
    #3396052 - 11/23/04 12:13 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Any takers?


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: I want to debate a "creation scientist". [Re: Phluck]
    #3396065 - 11/23/04 12:15 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Creationism and science are conflicting terms...so you cannot find such a "scientist".


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: I want to debate a "creation scientist". [Re: Phluck]
    #3396073 - 11/23/04 12:17 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Every time I try to debate them, they always come up with random "facts" and "findings" by so-called "scientists," and while they're never supported by mainstream science, it's usually tiring to try and refute every single one.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: I want to debate a "creation scientist". [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3396099 - 11/23/04 12:23 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Exactly, which is why I put the term "creation scientist" in quotation marks.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: I want to debate a "creation scientist". [Re: silversoul7]
    #3396102 - 11/23/04 12:25 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Sometimes the facts and findings are real, they just don't prove what they claim they prove, because they ignore part of them, or misunderstand them.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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InvisibleJellric
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Re: I want to debate a "creation scientist". [Re: Phluck]
    #3396148 - 11/23/04 12:36 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I don't think you're going to find very many Christian scientists 'round these parts. Maybe I could pretend to be one.

No, you're better off finding a Christian science forum and who knows..you might even become the Swami of the CS forum!


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I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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OfflineRedEyeSamurai
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Re: I want to debate a "creation scientist". [Re: Jellric]
    #3396180 - 11/23/04 12:45 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Alright, while I might not believe in creationalism I am pretty sure I could play a good advocate for the devil.

What the shit are you talking about evolution, it is suggested by the half life of ....


never mind, the bible is a story.


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OfflineSchazWat
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Re: I want to debate a "creation scientist". [Re: RedEyeSamurai]
    #3396252 - 11/23/04 01:05 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I could make a fact out of fiction, and fiction out of fact.

What do you want to debate about?


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: I want to debate a "creation scientist". [Re: SchazWat]
    #3396446 - 11/23/04 01:59 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Why are the thoughouly untested methods used in creation science to be considered on the same level as the vigorously investigated, criticized, and tested ideas and research that back up evolution?


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Invisiblevampirism
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Re: I want to debate a "creation scientist". [Re: Phluck]
    #3396519 - 11/23/04 02:22 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

well let me ask you something: need creationism and evolution be mutually exclusive?

Call evolution a maintenance procedure


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: I want to debate a "creation scientist". [Re: vampirism]
    #3396525 - 11/23/04 02:26 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Well, no, there are all kinds of stories you could make up to connect the two ideas.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Invisiblevampirism
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Re: I want to debate a "creation scientist". [Re: Phluck]
    #3396535 - 11/23/04 02:29 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

stories?
And what is science?
Aside from uninterpretted and useless data, theories *are* "stories"


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: I want to debate a "creation scientist". [Re: vampirism]
    #3396547 - 11/23/04 02:34 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Aside from uninterpretted and useless data, theories *are* "stories"

Theories are uninterpretted and useless data?

Science is a lot more about experiments and tests than simple stories. A theory is admittedly a proposal of a possible explanation, based on the available data, if the data begins to contradict it, it must be changed.

We have no data regarding god. Putting that concept into the theory makes it a story, and not a theory.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: I want to debate a "creation scientist". [Re: Phluck]
    #3396558 - 11/23/04 02:38 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

An analogy:

You keep an aquarium upstairs. Downstairs, below the aquarium, water is dripping through the ceiling.

Theory: The water is somehow leaking from the aquarium.

Story: A gorilla made the water leak from the aquarium.

Later it turns out that the cleaning lady knocked over a bucket of water next to the aquarium, and it appears to have leaked through to the ceiling below. The theory was wrong, and is now discarded.

The story is still a story.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Invisiblevampirism
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Re: I want to debate a "creation scientist". [Re: Phluck]
    #3396561 - 11/23/04 02:39 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

ehm
correct and incorrect

first, you must define god.
God can be construed as the universe- he is supposed to be greater than everything. Well, he cant be smaller than the Universe, now can he? Well, he can't be bigger than the Universe if it's to be the Universe either! You should conclude that they are one and the same. Different approaches, but just secure this premise.

Well, I think you can see how that would lend a hand to "creationists"

and about what I said before - theories are intepretations of OTHERWISE uninterpretted and useless data. There are alot of different ways to make a theory satisfy all the data you want them to : simplification is just a convention scientists try to use.


Anyway, so we DO have data regarding the Universe AKA God, correct?


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OfflineJCoke
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Re: I want to debate a "creation scientist". [Re: vampirism]
    #3396572 - 11/23/04 02:42 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

the fact is, are human brains have yet to come up with answers about evolution, we ask how did it all start, you say from dust, we ask how did dust start? you say from smaller dust, and so on...

if there is a God who created us, i'm 100% sure he's working on a level we have yet to see, we have only five sence's, taste, smell, sight, sound, feel, wtf does that mean? we have no say in how life was started, nor christian nor scietist, we are here with what we got, who gives a fuck?


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hello, your name is life on earth
------------------------------------

"I traveled a long way seeking God, but when I finally gave up and turned back, there He was, within me! O Lalli! Now why do you wander like a beggar? Make some effort, and He will grant you a vision of Himself in the form of bliss in your heart." -the saint of the Kashmir Shaivism tradition: Lalli.


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Invisiblevampirism
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Re: I want to debate a "creation scientist". [Re: JCoke]
    #3396579 - 11/23/04 02:44 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I don't care; I'm just trying to dislodge the superiority of a pure evolutionist concept of existence


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: I want to debate a "creation scientist". [Re: JCoke]
    #3396581 - 11/23/04 02:45 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

the fact is, are human brains have yet to come up with answers about evolution, we ask how did it all start, you say from dust, we ask how did dust start? you say from smaller dust, and so on...

You might want to do some research on evolution. Nobody says we started from dust.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Invisiblevampirism
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Re: I want to debate a "creation scientist". [Re: Phluck]
    #3396584 - 11/23/04 02:47 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

really now, thats all just semantics ;p

Haven't you heard that we've likely come from clay aggregates, aka dust? Also, i think he was mixing creationism in there, it's just not too coherent for most people.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: I want to debate a "creation scientist". [Re: Phluck]
    #3396596 - 11/23/04 02:51 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

My grandfather, though he's not against evolution per se, has raised an interesting objection against current evolutionary theory(aka Natural Selection). He says that it focuses too much on the supremacy of genes, and not on the behavior or interactions of animals(other than breeding). I'm not sure I can fully articulate his position, but I just thought I'd throw that out there.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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