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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Scientist's Research Debunked
    #5118218 -

S. Korean School Debunks Hwang's Research By BO-MI LIM, Associated Press Writer
36 minutes ago

SEOUL, South Korea - South Korea's top university said Thursday that a leading researcher fabricated all of the stem cells he said were cloned from individual patients ? a shattering blow to the disgraced scientist's reputation as a medical pioneer.

The conclusion was a crushing blow to Hwang Woo-suk's once-vaunted reputation as a leader in the field of cloning who held the key to breakthroughs for hard-to-treat diseases.

A panel from Seoul National University investigating Hwang's work said last week at least nine of the 11 patient-specific stem cell lines reported this year in the journal Science were fabricated. On Thursday, the panel said the remaining two were also faked.

"The panel couldn't find stem cells that match patients' DNA regarding the 2005 paper and it believes that Hwang's team doesn't have scientific data to prove that (such stem cells) were made," Roe Jung-hye, the university's dean of research affairs, told reporters.

etc...

Just as in politics, business, and any other human endeaver, results are faked by people greedy for fame and money.

Note that this was a leading scientist at a top university who pulled this scam, and not Sylvia Brown or some psychic trying to con someone.

Maybe now we will stop hearing so much about the "miracle cures" that stem cells will bring us?


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Anxiety is what you make it.

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Re: Scientist's Research Debunked [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #5118239 -

Bad scientists. :cannon:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Scientist's Research Debunked [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #5119314 -

LunarEclipse said:
Maybe now we will stop hearing so much about the "miracle cures" that stem cells will bring us?


No, we definitely won't!
We will stop hearing that stems cells don't have to be taken from a human fetus, though.

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Re: Scientist's Research Debunked [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5119443 -

No, we definitely won't!
We will stop hearing that stems cells don't have to be taken from a human fetus, though.

The article stated that this scientist's fraud reduced hopes that stem cells/cloning would be able to cure patient specific diseases, so I don't see where you think we will be hearing more or even the same about the hopes for stem cells.

As to now having to take stem cells from a human fetus, would you please elaborate?


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Anxiety is what you make it.

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Re: Scientist's Research Debunked [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #5120429 -

Hwang's research involved the cloning of stem cells, not the use of stem cells to treat diseases. In his research, Prof. Hwang said to have cloned 11 stem cells out of only two stem cells.

"The panel couldn't find stem cells that match patients' DNA regarding the 2005 paper and it believes that Hwang's team doesn't have scientific data to prove that (such stem cells) were made."

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Re: Scientist's Research Debunked [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5121518 -

"Hwang's research involved the cloning of stem cells, not the use of stem cells to fight disease."

That part is true, but the implication of him supposedly creating cloned patient specific stem cells is what gave the people who do want to use stem cells to fight disease false hope. Here's an article from today's newspaper that details this...

Stem cell deception
from the Boston Globe
December 30, 2005

THE KOREAN stem cell scandal is more a comment on human frailty than it is about the merits of therapeutic cloning. Stem cell research has the potential to make major contributions to fighting diseases, but the breakthroughs required may be more difficult than was apparent just a month ago.

Hwang Woo Suk and his colleagues in South Korea seemed to have advanced the field significantly last year when they announced they had inserted cells from a person into a donated human egg, thus producing the world's first cloned human cell. Hwang reported another breakthrough this year: creation of 11 batches of cloned cells, each with the DNA of a specific person. The hope was that cells could be tailored to treat diseases caused by an individual's faulty genes.

Now it turns out that none of the cells in the 11 batches were produced as a result of cloning. And the Koreans are reexamining the first report to determine whether Hwang's lab at Seoul National University had done any human cloning at all.

Science magazine has come in for criticism for printing Hwang's articles without fact-checking. But as Donald Kennedy, the editor, noted, the magazine works on the assumption that the data presented are legitimate. The deception would have become apparent sooner or later as researchers worldwide tried to replicate the results.

The role of professor Gerald Schatten of the University of Pittsburgh has also been questioned. He was listed as one of 25 authors of the article about the 11 batches, even though he apparently did little or no work on it. The practice is common for researchers who are considered mentors, but scientists need to be wary of such risks to their reputations.

Finally, the South Korean government has been questioned for putting $65 million behind Hwang's work, possibly creating pressure on the scientist to show results, even if fraudulent. This is no reason, however, to oppose all government support for stem cell research. Perhaps the government was overenthusiastic in supporting Hwang, but it was other Korean researchers who were the first to question the results.

In the United States, Congress is trying to overturn a wrongheaded decision by President Bush to limit federal funding. Opponents of stem cell research contend the scandal shows that Bush is right. Hwang's failings, however, have nothing to do with opponents' arguments that cloning produces embryos that are tiny human beings.

The scandal illustrates many all-too-human traits: desire for fame, delusions of power, lying, and recrimination. The objects of Hwang's experiments -- aggregations of several hundred cells -- are far too primitive to be called human, with all the flaws and virtues that implies.

end of article.

I was more interested in discussing the implications of how even a top researcher scientist could be so ethically corrupt and get away with it for so long in such a high profile situation like stem cell cloning.

How many other scientists have faked their results yet people still believe in their supposed "scientific proof"?


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Anxiety is what you make it.

Edited by LunarEclipse (12/30/05 08:41 AM)

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Re: Scientist's Research Debunked [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #5121535 -

Because of my work I see many articles about such deception in scientific circles. Power and money rule and human ego and pride also.

I think people who believe in the scientific method as a way of relating to reality are often in denial about these things in the same way Christians are in denial about the sins committed daily by the church and in Gods name. We are dealing with human emotional nature here, which has not at all kept up with the evolution of scientific knowledge.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Scientist's Research Debunked [Re: Icelander]
    #5121553 -

The problem seems to be getting worse as the pressure to produce results combined with more and more people willing to cheat. The cheating starts at the top in government, is allowed to continue at the corporate level, and seems to be increasing in the scientific/medical field.

The sad part of all of this is when innocent people die in Iraq, innocent people lose their jobs and retirement money at Enron, and some poor paralyzed kid who was told stem cells might be the answer now has to learn about that cheating lying scientist who stole his hope.


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Anxiety is what you make it.

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Re: Scientist's Research Debunked [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #5121565 -

All this is true. Human emotional nature is basically fear driven at this point in our evolution and all the knowledge in the world will not fix it. It's a revolution of the heart and takes individual awakening and much courage, based in self love.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Scientist's Research Debunked [Re: Icelander]
    #5121748 -

Quote:
I think people who believe in the scientific method as a way of relating to reality are often in denial about these things in the same way Christians are in denial about the sins committed daily by the church and in Gods name. We are dealing with human emotional nature here, which has not at all kept up with the evolution of scientific knowledge.


At the same time, the scientific method works, as this case shows demonstrates... the bogus research was discovered...


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Scientist's Research Debunked [Re: Seuss]
    #5121792 -

Same can be said about Christanity. The bogus preacher finally goes too far and is brought down to be followed by the next and the next.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Scientist's Research Debunked [Re: Seuss]
    #5122129 -

It was the lack of proper "scientific method" and "due diligence" by the scientific community and Science magazine and the Korean government etc. that allowed this charade to continue for so long.


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Anxiety is what you make it.

Edited by LunarEclipse (12/30/05 11:30 AM)

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Re: Scientist's Research Debunked [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #5125103 -

This is a good article about how science regulates itself and debunks frauds.

:smile:

"The deception would have become apparent sooner or later as researchers worldwide tried to replicate the results."

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Re: Scientist's Research Debunked [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5125352 -

yep, science is the shit for replicable phenomena

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Re: Scientist's Research Debunked [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5125482 -

"Science magazine has come in for criticism for printing Hwang's articles without fact-checking. But as Donald Kennedy, the editor, noted, the magazine works on the assumption that the data presented are legitimate.

The role of professor Gerald Schatten of the University of Pittsburgh has also been questioned. He was listed as one of 25 authors of the article about the 11 batches, even though he apparently did little or no work on it. The practice is common for researchers who are considered mentors, but scientists need to be wary of such risks to their reputations."

Isn't it interesting how much different this reads when I take out the sentence that you quoted from the last sentence of paragraph 1 and leave in the next paragraph as well.

Your conclusion that science is "regulating itself" when Science magazine doesn't check facts and assumes data is correct, and that researchers being listed as authors in research articles that did little or no work on the project doesn't sound like science regulating itself.  Unless you still think having Arthur Anderson as both the accountant and auditor of Enron was a good example of a company "regulating itself." :tongue:


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Anxiety is what you make it.

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Re: Scientist's Research Debunked [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #5125530 -

:grin:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Scientist's Research Debunked [Re: Icelander]
    #5125597 -

I suppose the collapse of Enron was the result of the ethical self-regulation of corperate America...


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http://www.myspace.com/sarasotafnb
http://www.wcwtampa.com

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Re: Scientist's Research Debunked [Re: dr0mni]
    #5125938 -

What is amazing isn't that houses of cards collapse, but just how huge they can become before they do.

The trade and budget deficits in the U.S. combined with the huge surpluses created for China, India etc. with nuclear weapons for all and depleting natural resources is building the global house of cards.


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Anxiety is what you make it.

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Re: Scientist's Research Debunked [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #5126382 -

Science magazine is not a research organization.

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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