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Offlinedmtrypr
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Registered: 07/15/04
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Scientific Research Showing Thought's Affect on Matter
    #3654117 - 01/20/05 05:14 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I found this on the "what the bleep do we know?" web site. It is a write up on a book written by a Japanese researcher. Basically, he uses a high-powered microscope to observe water as it is subjected to music, thoughts, and things like pollution.

http://www.whatthebleep.com/crystals/

I feel like this validates my own personal life experience as I used to be very "negative" and am now very "positive".

As a result of my negativity, not only did I have a less-than hopeful outlook on life, but my body gradually became more and more asymetrical and unbalanced. I used to get violently ill, had crazy relationships, and was unable to feel good (which is why I was a borderline drug addict for so long)

For the past couple of years now, I have made a concerted effort to release negativity and to bring the ultimate positive (love) into my life. As a result of this, actual physical changes have occured within my body. I am more symetrical, my vision has improved, and I am much healthier across the board. I no longer get sick, my diet has changed (I desire healthier foods), and I am now in the best relationship I have ever had (almost a year without a single fight, an impossibility if you had ever experienced me and my ex in the same room together.)

I think that the point is that positive thoughts bring about a restructuring, from disorder to order. I believe that although the researcher is only looking at microscopic drops of water, the lessons held by those images are infinite.

Perhaps life as we know it is the result of some other being directing love towards the earth (when it was still just a ball of dirt hurtling through the cosmos).


--------------------
"There is no greater power in heaven and earth than the thought of the son of man. Though unseen by the eyes of the body,yet each thought has mighty strength, even such strength can shake the heavens." -Gospel of the Essenes


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OfflineZekebomb
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Registered: 08/24/03
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Re: Scientific Research Showing Thought's Affect on Matter [Re: dmtrypr]
    #3654163 - 01/20/05 05:24 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

that's so weird, I was gonna post the same damn article about water! then I got too lazy. I'm glad someone did though, it's really nifty. remember, our bodies are largely water!


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

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Re: Scientific Research Showing Thought's Affect on Matter [Re: dmtrypr]
    #3654171 - 01/20/05 05:26 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Scientific Research Showing Thought's Affect on Matter
*Swami looks out the window and sees yet ANOTHER billion dollar casino going up.*

I am more symetrical
("symmetrical" looks more balanced and well, you know...) Symmetry is determined by genetics and cannot be changed.

I think that the point is that positive thoughts bring about a restructuring, from disorder to order.
Snowflakes form complex, ordered structures without any positive thoughts from humans.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlineskystone
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Re: Scientific Research Showing Thought's Affect on Matter [Re: Swami]
    #3654573 - 01/20/05 06:51 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Snowflakes form complex, ordered structures without any positive thoughts from humans.





If you put that out of context it's swamies first argument for existence of god.. :tongue2:


--------------------
"..and suddenly it began to rain"


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Anonymous

Re: Scientific Research Showing Thought's Affect on Matter [Re: dmtrypr]
    #3655203 - 01/20/05 08:48 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

As below, so above. :laugh:


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Scientific Research Showing Thought's Affect on Matter [Re: ]
    #3655766 - 01/20/05 10:35 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Where is the science here. If your going to discuss metaphysics here that is one thing, but don't present conjecture as science. Here is Dr. Emoto's self described credentials:
"I received certification from the Open International University as a Doctor of Alternative Medicine" He went to the "Open University"...yeah open all right...to anyone who pays the bucks.
This means maybe he is a medicine man...not a scientist. I love his reviewers credentials:

"C. Norman Shealy, M.D., Ph.D.
Founding President, American Holistic Medical Association
President. Holos University Graduate Seminary"

So, is a "Seminary" a place where they study science? The Holos University must be one of those obscure ivy league schools because I have never heard of it. It actually sounds like one of those places on the net where you can buy a mail order "degree".
Promoting conjecture as science is very bad because it promotes ignorance.


Edited by Huehuecoyotl (01/20/05 10:44 PM)


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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: Scientific Research Showing Thought's Affect on Matter [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3655790 - 01/20/05 10:40 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

oops, I didn't see that M.D., Ph.D. part of the credentials


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Scientific Research Showing Thought's Affect on Matter [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3655803 - 01/20/05 10:44 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah...Phd in alternative medicine....he's a rip.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: Scientific Research Showing Thought's Affect on Matter [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3655811 - 01/20/05 10:47 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

from the site:

Dr. Masaru Emoto was born in Japan and is a graduate of the Yokohama Municipal University and the Open International University as a Doctor of Alternative Medicine.

does that mean he graduated from both of those schools as one thing, a PhD in Alt Medicine? or one school MD and one PhD?

oh, and how is alternative medicine a rip?


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Scientific Research Showing Thought's Affect on Matter [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3655839 - 01/20/05 10:56 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

"oh, and how is alternative medicine a rip?"
It is not when properly presented. When it is presented as hard science it is being misrepresented. I have had over 10 years of study in alternative medicine. I have also had extensive medical training. While the two complement each other they are not the same thing. Anyway, if this is science why is it not on the science and technology forum. I am here to discuss philosophy and spirituality.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Offlinedmtrypr
psychonauticalengineer

Registered: 07/15/04
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Re: Scientific Research Showing Thought's Affect on Matter [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3655901 - 01/20/05 11:11 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I always assume that on a "spirituality and philosophy" board people would be able to take things a little bit more lightly. Perhaps I'm weird, but I found this article interesting, and there are much more things at work here (and to talk about) rather than Mr. Emoto's credentials.

Are you really not moved looking at those pictures? Do you feel anything looking at the stars or a sunset?

Incidentaly, I just saw the movie "What the Bleep Do We Know" about 2 hrs. ago and it was great.

The whole movie had several REAL scientists (go to the website to see their credentials) discussing the possibilities that discoveries in quantum physics create for us in our daily lives. The whole thing is wrapped up with cool special effects, CG graphics, and follows a "story" of sorts. The cool thing is that the common thread between all of their ideas was that reality is more or less a condensation of thought. The thoughts are created and experienced by consciousness, the "observer" in each of us.

Anyway, feel free to argue about the details if you want. I'm going to keep on directing love towards things in my life because the results are real for me. For the people who appreciate this, don't fret, I have a lot more stuff like this on the way!


--------------------
"There is no greater power in heaven and earth than the thought of the son of man. Though unseen by the eyes of the body,yet each thought has mighty strength, even such strength can shake the heavens." -Gospel of the Essenes


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Offlinefresh313
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Re: Scientific Research Showing Thought's Affect on Matter [Re: dmtrypr]
    #3657888 - 01/21/05 11:49 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

the mind has more control than we can possibly understand, so why are any of you bringing hard science into this discussion?
science as it is today barely knicks the surface of how the brain works.
we know more about planets 50 billions miles away.
stay inside the boundaries of science and you will never leave them.

dmtrypr,
Positive thoughts can do great things, i think it is an energy like the Qi of eastern medicine, that connects the mind and the body, when the balance of energy is disturbed in either part, both parts are affected. a positive mindset has the ability to create a stronger energy, stronger bond between mind and body allowing them to work at a greater symbiotic effeciency. Much like your experiences show.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Scientific Research Showing Thought's Affect on Matter [Re: dmtrypr]
    #3658122 - 01/21/05 01:31 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Hey cool,

This guys work and web links to it were floating around spirituality message boards about a year ago. I found the photos stunning to consider, considering, we are mostly made of water and we think a lot.
I almost posted the link here a bit back and thought, nah, some of these guys will just tear it up and no one will get anything from it.

Come on, who needs a science degree to run this experiment. All ya need is water, thoughts and words taped to a bottle, a freezer and a microscope. My daughter and I can do this at home. We can repeat it weekly and if we keep getting the same results, there is something to it.

I don't need an accredited individual to tell me what I am seeing with my own eyes. However, how these clearly effected waters have an impact on our physical health regarding the water in our bodies requires a whole new test with lots of people as tests subjects and the test would need to run for at least 20 plus years and I would also want to see multiple groups being tested over different time periods and who in the heck would volunteer themselves to be bombarded non stop with negative thoughts, words, words they associate with negative things and music and such that produced ugly disorganized crystals.

That aside cuz it'll never happen, here's an interesting thought that comes from the initial experiment that is worthy to consider. If the water is organizing itself based on thoughts, sounds and words intentioned into it, what is the receiver in the water doing the organizing or disorganizing? Water must have some form of consciousness or intelligence for interpreting these thoughts and sounds. I know thoughts and emotions emit frequency patterns and anything that can recieve them, can interpret them and become effected by them. The water is obviously doing this without any physical manipulation being done to it.

And whatever the principle is in the water that can reorganise itself to form these frequency patterns, does show, some form of intelligence in the water that can perceive, interpret, and reorganize or disorganize itself existing outside of the human mind. Plants follow their DNA code and yet they have been shown to be influenced by thoughts and emotions intentioned into them.

The difference is, the plants can either thrive as their DNA blueprint allows them to or not thrive. The water, appears to be able to organize or disorganize itself into any form structure. It makes it an interesting medium for such experiments. We have DNA blue prints like plants to grow arms heads legs like stems and leavs and flowers, yet the water in both, is unlimited to the forms it can take shape in.

This has to mean something to us, what I don't know. I find this all very interesting and exciting and while its in this forum, I will share here. I would lump it in with meta physics and the spirituality forum is the closest to that. Spirituality is soooo broad. Many spiritual types lean towards metaphysics and experience for validation, some towards angels and god and faith, some towards methodic disciplines and principles to be applied to life for the ending of suffering or proficiency.

If this post were to be transferred anywhere, I would put it in mental health. People who think crappy thoughts need to see what the water crystallizes into when exposed to them and get an idea of what their inner waters look like and what they are drowning, dying or thriving in, if that be the case.

Until such group experiments are conducted, one can only make assumptions about the effect on our physical health. I thin the experiements are very interesting and create a lot of food for thought and discussion realtive to some special interests of some in this forum.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Offlinedmtrypr
psychonauticalengineer

Registered: 07/15/04
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Re: Scientific Research Showing Thought's Affect on Matter [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3658716 - 01/21/05 04:19 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Thanks for the intelligent responses guys. I realized when I first posted this that there would be people who would get stuck on the details and miss what's really important.

I agree with you completely Fresh. The energetic body is probably the missing link that confounds so many purely scientific types. The reason why I found the "pure scientists" in the movie "what the bleep" so interesting is that they came to the same conclusions I have, but from a different angle. This leaves me confident that there IS something out there that we are all looking for, but we go about it in ways as unique as ourselves.

I actually have practiced Qi-gong as well as other "energy" techniques and they have all proven to be interesting at least and enlightening at best.

What I have experienced in my own life has shown me that we really are in control of our destiny. Each moment literally unfolds with possibility, but the choice is ultimately in our hands (or our mind, or our spirit, or none of the above). I think that people are beginning to realize that tried and true (or even logical) means of explaining reality are insufficient. Just as we don't need mastery of anatomy and physiology in order to use our bodies, we don't need to know exactly what consciousness is to put its powers and potencies into use. We have been given a great gift and all we are asked to do with it is to use it to make our own lives (as well as the lives of others) the best we can.

P.S. The actor who played Quark in Star Trek The Next Gen. actually has a cameo in the movie "what the bleep". The story's main character is looking at pictures of water subjected to different energies/thoughts and he says "If this is what thoughts can do to water, imagine what they can do to us". Considering that we are mostly water ourselves, this is quite a profound statement.


--------------------
"There is no greater power in heaven and earth than the thought of the son of man. Though unseen by the eyes of the body,yet each thought has mighty strength, even such strength can shake the heavens." -Gospel of the Essenes


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Offlineincubaby_421
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Re: Scientific Research Showing Thought's Affect on Matter [Re: dmtrypr]
    #3658805 - 01/21/05 04:41 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

this is science, anything is science, if you want it to be, those fuzy little jars sitting in you closet, growing quietly, those are science, and you are, in turn a scientist.

this is spirituality, what is not spiritual about the thought that thoughts can change the structure of something, with no outside force, other than magnetic brain waves,

this is philosophy, the water crystal thing is as much philosophy as gravity was when it was first thought of,

personally, i found this quite intriuging, it makes sense, i mean, when you are fighting with everybody at your house, be it one other person or five, or even if your in the same room as someone who is in a bad mood, you can feel it, it emmenates throughout the room, bad vibes, feelings of paranoia, fear, and loathing, you can feel them,
and transversely with positive feelings, feelings definitely project themselves.
and maybe water is what makes us in tune to those feelings, maybe it re structures itself in our bodies when something is wrong, maybe that is what preminisions are, and our brains are just advanced interpretors of what the water within us is trying to say...

i have allways thought that we pool energy from mass sources of water, lakes, oceans, whatever, i like to go to the beach and chill on rocks for a couple of hours, just staring at the water, i allways feel regenerated after this.

and i hate water signs, bunch of moody spoiled little bastards the whole lot of them.

thats all i have to say about water.


--------------------
"yet the more i dig, the more i consume, the more i unfold... the less protected i feel.
i am the spit on the hair of the son of an electron, swimming around the nucleus of a cell inside the sperm of a killer bee, and my purpose is as nebulous as why weve been bestowed with the capacity to give a shit" Brandon Boyd



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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Scientific Research Showing Thought's Affect on Matter [Re: incubaby_421]
    #3658866 - 01/21/05 04:51 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

:thumbup:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Scientific Research Showing Thought's Affect on Matter [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3658956 - 01/21/05 05:07 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

just because he is goofy does not mean he will always be goofy
look at george bush, nahhh.

seriously
I like the water stuff and it deserves another integrated look and it just might get it.
someday


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Offlineincubaby_421
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Re: Scientific Research Showing Thought's Affect on Matter [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3659009 - 01/21/05 05:17 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

after pondering upon my previous post for awhile, i definitely think that there is a lot more to all of this water foolishness, everything in exstence is made up of mostly water, this is going to take a couple of days and a few doobies, maybe a few grams of knowledge, ill get back to you all on this after o have centered my thoughts more.


--------------------
"yet the more i dig, the more i consume, the more i unfold... the less protected i feel.
i am the spit on the hair of the son of an electron, swimming around the nucleus of a cell inside the sperm of a killer bee, and my purpose is as nebulous as why weve been bestowed with the capacity to give a shit" Brandon Boyd



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OfflineMixomatosis
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Re: Scientific Research Showing Thought's Affect on Matter [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3661652 - 01/22/05 02:47 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

don't present conjecture as science. Here is Dr. Emoto's self described credentials

Hue is making a foolish argument. He's not adressing the data or the methodology of the experiment. Instead he's discrediting the guy who did it. In the world of rational thought, this has got to be the most easily recognizable logical fallacy.

It's exactly like saying that something must not be true because the person who said it is a "nigger". I'm sure I don't have to explain to you how the colour of one's skin has no bearing on the validity of their knowledge.

Hue's attempt at debating was valiant but.. pathetic. Disgustingly so, actually. That I was the first to point out this obvious flaw is equally appalling. I don't post for a few days and shit... what the hell goes on in here when I'm out?? You all bring shame on this forum, especially hue. Other than that, I'll have to check out what sounds like a neat article on some cool research.


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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: Scientific Research Showing Thought's Affect on Matter [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #3661658 - 01/22/05 02:50 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

isn't it, like, a fallacy to point out fallacies? or at least, a fallacy to discredit someone's argument solely on the basis that it is flawed. ...er, right, nevermind


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