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Invisible2Experimental
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The new galaxy scientists discovered
    #2347368 - 02/17/04 09:28 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I was reading on google about a new galaxy scientists discoverd some 18 billion light years away.... rather close considering the unknown size of the universe. They were saying how at the begining of the universe SOOO long ago how it was just hydrogen , and then shit happened, big bang, whatever, to start the creation of mass in the universe. So how this relates to S&p??? I just cant comprehend how Im a human in a state, on a continent, on a planet, in a galaxy, in a Universe, that extentds beyond what we can comprehend... Way back trillions of years ago when it all came about, WHERE DID THE GASSES COME FROM, scientists like to debunk creation with big bang, but dont they ever think " hey, where did those molecule atoms come from that combined to create life/existance". How can people beleive there is NO SORT of higher power out there? How can people be SO locked into this reality we experience here on earth, not thinking outside the circle. How can anyone say there is no greater being then humans when you try to think of where the universe came from and how old it really is?
I cant understand how something just IS , where the hell did it all come from, and what is the point? I guess if someone could answer this there would be no point to life, right? Well maybe not. Does anyone have explanations on how they grasp how small and insignificant we really are in the big scheme of things, and where it all came from? Thx


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: The new galaxy scientists discovered [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2347397 - 02/17/04 09:37 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

rather close considering the unknown size of the universe

Well at 18 billion light years it is on the edge of the universe as far as time goes! What I mean is, we are seeing this galaxy as it was 18 billion years ago. Last I heard the age of the universe was estimated somewhere between 15-20 billion years...so this galaxy is actually one of the first galaxies to form.

Truely on the "other side" of our Universe! Amazing.


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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: The new galaxy scientists discovered [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2347402 - 02/17/04 09:38 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

"WHERE DID THE GASSES COME FROM, scientists like to debunk creation with big bang, but dont they ever think " hey, where did those molecule atoms come from that combined to create life/existance". How can people beleive there is NO SORT of higher power out there? How can people be SO locked into this reality we experience here on earth, not thinking outside the circle. How can anyone say there is no greater being then humans when you try to think of where the universe came from and how old it really is?
I cant understand how something just IS"

:heart:

so well said! where did all of this come from?  where is "here"?

yes there is a lot for us here to understand, along with many things we won't understand, and even though things may seem insignificant, each and every one of us has a "part" to play. We are all here, isn't that significant enough?  The fact that you are AWARE of what's around you is crazy!!

"how they grasp how small and insignificant we really are in the big scheme of things, and where it all came from?"

if you know what your essence is, there's no need to ask this question.  you are experiencing at this very moment, and that's what matters.    :biggrin:


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Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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Invisible2Experimental
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Re: The new galaxy scientists discovered [Re: trendal]
    #2347404 - 02/17/04 09:40 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

err, dont quote me on the 18 bil, but it seems so be what i remember. And besides, there is no way of knowing how old the universe is, maybe THIS PART of it yes, the milkyway is but a spec of sand on a beach .


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: The new galaxy scientists discovered [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2347415 - 02/17/04 09:42 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Actually it's not too difficult to estimate the age of the Universe. It's done by looking at the expansion velocity, then rolling that backwards until a point is reached where all the observable universe is contained in a point (which would include all of the unobservable universe, as well).

As I said, last I heard the estimates where somewhere between 15 and 20 billion years.

And that estimate has nothing to do with the Milky Way :wink:


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OfflineSpokesman
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Re: The new galaxy scientists discovered [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2347419 - 02/17/04 09:43 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Where would this higher being, or "god/s" as people now call him/them, come from???
We cant explain why the atoms might have sprouted, although theories state that warps in space (gravity) might have something to do with it. Anyway,Can you explain to me where this higher force that poses control over the will of every vibration of a quark in the universe came from???? It's easy to blame creation on an unquestionable being. But if the human brain can question than im going to question. And that human curiosity is what gave birth to scientists who work their ass off so maybe one day we will know what it is really that we are supposed to do here. Instead of taking instructions off a dated black book.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: The new galaxy scientists discovered [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2347420 - 02/17/04 09:44 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Also, "this part" of the universe came into existence at the same time as every other part of the universe (observable or not). The entire universe came into existence at the same moment, some 15-20 billion years in the past.


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Invisible2Experimental
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Re: The new galaxy scientists discovered [Re: trendal]
    #2347423 - 02/17/04 09:45 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

"which would include all of the unobservable universe, as well"

what you say makes sense, but doesent mean its right. how can scientists possibly think that they have figured out a way to measure the size of the universe(i realize this isent what you said), let alone how old it is, by ANY means... Im sure the xpansion velocity thoery has its factual evidence behind it, but is there anyways they know for SURE they are right about the 20 bil estimate?


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: The new galaxy scientists discovered [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2347440 - 02/17/04 09:54 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

WHERE DID THE GASSES COME FROM, scientists like to debunk creation with big bang, but dont they ever think " hey, where did those molecule atoms come from that combined to create life/existance".

This is actually a well understood process.

In the beginning (sorry to sound like a bible :smirk:) there was only energy. The first few moments of the universe were much too hot for matter to exist. Eventually, the universe had expanded to a point (and thus cooled down enough) where the energy could begin to condense into matter. At first this matter consisted only of electrons and free quarks, as the energy level was still too high for quarks to combine. After a few minutes or hours the universe had cooled such that quarks could combine into protons. Now the universe consisted of a very hot cloud of mostly hydrogen plasma (hydrogen being a single proton). After yet more time the temp lowered to where electrons could be captured by the protons - forming the first atoms (mostly hydrogen, with some helium and a small ammount of lithium).

Next gravitational waves, set up during the first few moments of the big bang and reverberating since, caused the formless cloud of hydrogen to begin collapsing into various points. These points formed the first galaxies, and in these galaxies the first stars formed. These stars were extremely massive, and consisted only of hydrogen.

The stars combined hydrogen in their cores into helium, as is done in all stars to this day. Nearing the end of their lives, when the star's hydrogen core began to run out, helium began fusing into heavier elements. This process continued until iron was reached, which cannot be fused by stars. When the core of the star was almost entirely iron, it collapsed under the intense gravitational force and then rebounded in a massive explosion (a supernova). During this intense explosion, much more massive elements are formed out of the iron. In fact all of the naturally-occuring elements which are heavier than iron have been formed in this way.

After 10-15 billion years, we have our galaxy the Milky Way. On one of the spiral arms a new star was forming from the remnants of a supernova. Around the star, heavier elements formed into rock bodies. The third from the star, Sol, happened to be at the right distance from the star for liquid water to occur.

This planet, of course, is the Earth.

And that's the story of Creation, as told by science :wink:


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: The new galaxy scientists discovered [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2347445 - 02/17/04 09:56 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

but is there anyways they know for SURE they are right about the 20 bil estimate?

No, but so few things are "for sure" in this existence I find it pointless to strive for such a thing :smirk:

The age estimate is being almost constantly refined as new data comes in and theory is advanced. This is one of the highlights of science - it's ability to adapt to new data :wink:


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Invisible2Experimental
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Re: The new galaxy scientists discovered [Re: trendal]
    #2347474 - 02/17/04 10:05 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

you totally dodged my question of where the actual molucules of " energy" as you said came from, with a long, very informational post I may add. But the the point of this thread wasent to discuss where or how the universe was formed, rather, where the things that formed it came from, and who created the space they exist in?


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OfflineIamHungry
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Re: The new galaxy scientists discovered [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2347484 - 02/17/04 10:09 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

actually its 13 billion light years


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Here comes the sun, do n do do,
Here comes the sun, and I say,
It's alright...


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: The new galaxy scientists discovered [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2347491 - 02/17/04 10:10 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

"Molecules" are not what energy is "made of". Molecules are collections of atoms. Water is a molecule, made of two hydrogen atoms and one oxygen atom.

Where did the "energy" come from? In Big Bang theory it was contained pre-big bang in a singularity. All of the energy (and the matter it would later form) of the Universe was contained in this singularity.

Where did the singularity come from, is going to be your next question?

This, I'm afraid, cannot be answered by any tools of current science. "Space" did not exist. Time did not exist (so there was no "before").

There was only the singularity. And science has not attempted to go beyond that, or at least has made only preliminary forays into this territory.

I'm sorry, I did not dodge your question in my first post. I explained to you where the "molecules" that we are made of came from - the energy that was released in the big bang.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: The new galaxy scientists discovered [Re: IamHungry]
    #2347510 - 02/17/04 10:21 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

actually its 13 billion light years

Yes that's what I just read, too.

As well, I guess the current estimate for the age of the universe is about 13.7 billion years...making this galaxy definately one of the earliest (a MERE 700 million years after the big event!).


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Invisible2Experimental
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Re: The new galaxy scientists discovered [Re: trendal]
    #2347526 - 02/17/04 10:28 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

its funny because what scientist saw with the huble is WAY changed from what they see, u gotta acount for 13 billio years for the picture of light to travel.


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: The new galaxy scientists discovered [Re: trendal]
    #2347559 - 02/17/04 10:44 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

thats a really nice synopsis, trendal :thumbup:


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peace, pot, and microdot!


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OfflineFrog
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Re: The new galaxy scientists discovered [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2347602 - 02/17/04 10:59 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Ditto.    :thumbup:


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: The new galaxy scientists discovered [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2347704 - 02/17/04 11:27 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

WHERE DID THE GASSES COME FROM,
Um, God ate some mexican food?

scientists like to debunk creation with big bang,
The theories on the Big Bang were not formulated to debunk Creationism. Mr. Hubble noted that all galaxies are moving away from each other at great speed. Backing that up in time (way simplified), they all seem to have come from a single location.

but dont they ever think " hey, where did those molecule atoms come from that combined to create life/existance".
They may think that, but cannot comment on it.

How can people beleive there is NO SORT of higher power out there?
It is very easy. Try it.

How can anyone say there is no greater being then humans when you try to think of where the universe came from and how old it really is?
One primary cause (God or Big Bang or ...) is just as mysterious as another.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineMurex
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Re: The new galaxy scientists discovered [Re: trendal]
    #2348251 - 02/18/04 01:44 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)


Actually multiple molecules make up one atom. You got it backwards. :tongue:


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What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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OfflineSpecialEd
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Re: The new galaxy scientists discovered [Re: Murex]
    #2348259 - 02/18/04 01:47 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Murex, I am failing you in chemistry for that post.


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  /l_l\/
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