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rommstein2001
Rise ye Must!
Registered: 05/10/01
Posts: 3,182
Loc: South GA
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
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Re: Is evolution still being debated??? [Re: Xibalba]
#1090812 - 11/27/02 11:01 AM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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i meant you exist because i believe... i am basically a god... the rock exists because of me...
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Strumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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Re: Is evolution still being debated??? [Re: rommstein2001]
#1090848 - 11/27/02 11:20 AM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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No the rock is a "rock" and has "rockly meaning" because of you - it would still be there if you were dead, it just wouldn't be a "rock," in my view..
-------------------- Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me. In addition: SHPONGLE
Edited by Strumpling (11/27/02 11:20 AM)
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Anonymous
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Re: Is evolution still being debated??? [Re: GoBlue!]
#1091052 - 11/27/02 12:46 PM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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The riddle of origins is not as easy to solve as some would have us to believe. The 'evidence' you are talking about is interpreted as being the reason we exist. There are other interpretations of the data.
If you are well versed in this I have a little puzzle for you to solve. To date, though there have been quite a few answers to it none of them were correct. I have been waiting to read this thread since you first posted it and only now got a chance to read it.
Here is a link to an earlier thread.
Read it and when you can solve it you can claim that which no one else can claim.
Looky looky
I am considering showing why some of the answers are wrong but haven't got around to it yet.
Enjoy!
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GoBlue!
Tool Rules - DBK
Registered: 10/27/02
Posts: 576
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Last seen: 20 years, 6 months
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Re: Is evolution still being debated??? [Re: ]
#1091121 - 11/27/02 01:13 PM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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Here is a link to an earlier thread. Read it and when you can solve it you can claim that which no one else can claim.
Good link Mr Mushrooms! I really like the fact that you attempt to use science and logic to try and prove a point. I'll definitely respond to that thread soon (but for now I'm getting ready to head out on a Thanksgiving trip).
Edit: One more point - I didn't mean to debate "origins" in this thread, only "evolution". While some may argue that evolution first began from earth and water, I didn't mean to go quite that far back; I only meant to say that species are changing with time. At any rate, the link you gave IS about "evolution", and I look forward to analysing that and replying soon.
-------------------- Just stating my thoughts, not trying to offend
Edited by GoBlue! (11/27/02 01:20 PM)
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Adamist
ℚṲℰϟ✞ЇѺℵ ℛ∃Åʟḯ†У
Registered: 11/23/01
Posts: 10,211
Loc: Bloomington, IN
Last seen: 9 years, 19 days
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Re: Is evolution still being debated??? [Re: FreakQlibrium]
#1091445 - 11/27/02 03:19 PM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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i believe in free will and determinism simultaneously
Me too.
-------------------- { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } }
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Remy
Bitches Brew
Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 1,343
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
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Re: Is evolution still being debated??? [Re: GoBlue!]
#1091611 - 11/27/02 04:47 PM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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It is quite clear that evolution exsists. However, the idea that evolution is survival of the fittest, and is based upon a bunch of random mutations is ludacris. I take the belief that there are concious forces (sub-particles) acting upon the evolution of a species. Organisms adapt to their surroundings and habitats, a mutation doesn't just randomly occur and whichever organisms had the mutation survive. Instead, there is a subconcious force working everywhere in the universe. How else can something evolve to disguise itself almost perfectly in its enviroment (don't tell me a stickbug is a result of random mutations).
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Phluck
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 04/10/99
Posts: 11,394
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 4 months, 25 days
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Re: Is evolution still being debated??? [Re: Swami]
#1092147 - 11/27/02 08:12 PM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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"My point is that is that those are not the only options."
What are the other options?
We know for a fact that evolution exists in at least a small scale. It has been observed.
Like I said, evolution as our origin has not been proven, but I haven't been provided with any alternative other than creationism. Are you holding out on us?
-------------------- "I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson http://phluck.is-after.us
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David_Scape
Anti Genius
Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 878
Loc: U.S. of muthafuckin A.
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
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Re: Is evolution still being debated??? [Re: GoBlue!]
#1092235 - 11/27/02 08:36 PM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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Anonymous
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Re: Is evolution still being debated??? [Re: David_Scape]
#1093164 - 11/28/02 02:34 AM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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Nice link!
I am actually surprised that someone hasn't posted a link to TalkCrap.com.
Here is a more advanced website that shows lots of flaws in the "theory" of evolution.
Check this out!
Enjoy!
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Is evolution still being debated??? [Re: ]
#1093270 - 11/28/02 04:52 AM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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Here is a more advanced website that shows lots of flaws in the "theory" of evolution.
And adds even more of it's own.
if something cannot live, it obviously cannot evolve Whenever someone uses the term "obviously" in their statement it is a sign of a weak argument. If evolution of non-living matter may be expressed as self-organization and the movement of simple to more complex compounds and structures, then his statement "obviously" falls flat. Galaxies and solar systems are highly evolved elemental systems.
So, when all is said and done, the evolutionist finds himself right back where he started. The naturalistic beginnings of life on Earth are impossible... Umm, I am here writing and reading this which speaks highly against impossibility. Just because the author of that statement does not understand how life arose does not grant him license to stamp it as impossible.
(Regarding the Law of Biogenesis: life arises only from life) It was Virchow who documented that cells do not arise from amorphous matter, but instead come only from pre-existing cells. Virchows experiments were not done billions of years ago when conditions on Earth wer not even remotely similar in pressure, heat and chemical composition as today and say absoultely nothing about the origin of life only the continuation of cellular life. (Can you say "strawman"?)
Then lots of cool mathemetics are used to prove the impossibility of life arising sponataneously. Once again, these arguments are applied to our limited knowledge of how complex amino acids and proteins may form in such a way as to replicate. They may be overlooking some vital and as yet unknown factor in the same way that a 17th century scientist would look at a TV and claim it to be an impossible invention.
All posturing aside, the VERY SAME Creationist mathematics could be used to prove the non-existence of God.
It is not superficial; to teach, as creationists do, that design implies a Designer. Snowflakes are designed without a designer by chemical and thermodynamic laws.
There is too much to respond to, but in summation, poking real or artificial holes in evoultionary theory does NOT make a case for Creationism. This is critical to understand. Even IF evolutionary theory completely collapses, Creationsim must stand on it's own positive merits of which there are NONE! The whole argumeht behind Creationism is one of total ignorance.
"We do not understand how this possibly could have happened, therefore we claim the First Cause as God."
-------------------- The proof is in the pudding.
Edited by Swami (11/28/02 04:58 PM)
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Anonymous
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Re: Is evolution still being debated??? [Re: Swami]
#1093466 - 11/28/02 10:07 AM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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Good heavens man! Do you mean to say there are things you disagree with in the website and that there might be a few flaws in it?
I am stunned. And here I thought the entire thing was Gospel!
Read the rebuttal to TalkCrap's 29 "proofs" for evolution. I find it most convincing.
Have a Happy Thanksgiving and know you are thought of!
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GoBlue!
Tool Rules - DBK
Registered: 10/27/02
Posts: 576
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Last seen: 20 years, 6 months
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Re: Is evolution still being debated??? [Re: Remy]
#1094344 - 11/28/02 04:27 PM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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*ludicrous*
Actually I agree with you that mutation isn't completely random. I watched a Discovery Channel special about people that live at high altitudes (15,000+ft) and it said that the human body takes about 3 generations to completely adjust to these altitudes. This implies that people's bodies will evolve to their surrounding, in a way that ISN'T random (EVERYONE's body adjusts). However, I'm not sure I'd use the words "subconcious force" to describe this, as I really don't know what that means.
-------------------- Just stating my thoughts, not trying to offend
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Is evolution still being debated??? [Re: ]
#1094400 - 11/28/02 04:59 PM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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Seems that too many on both sides of the argument are more interested in protecting their views than in further discovery wherever it may lead.
-------------------- The proof is in the pudding.
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Murex
Reality Hacker
Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
Loc: Traped in a shell.
Last seen: 16 years, 6 months
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Re: Is evolution still being debated??? [Re: ]
#1094907 - 11/28/02 10:42 PM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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I mutated into a danm Mantis. I got theze stupid fucking arms that can't pick up anything.......it really sucks. I wish I had mutated into a squid or something.
-------------------- What if everything around you Isn't quite as it seems? What if all the world you think you know, Is an elaborate dream? And if you look at your reflection, Is it all you want it to be?
Edited by Murex (11/28/02 10:42 PM)
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Adamist
ℚṲℰϟ✞ЇѺℵ ℛ∃Åʟḯ†У
Registered: 11/23/01
Posts: 10,211
Loc: Bloomington, IN
Last seen: 9 years, 19 days
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Re: Is evolution still being debated??? [Re: Remy]
#1095613 - 11/29/02 08:14 AM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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Instead, there is a subconcious force working everywhere in the universe.
That damn reptilian demiurge...
-------------------- { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } }
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