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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Chaos
    #4471563 - 07/29/05 11:12 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Can you feel it?

Or do you still pretend that you can make order of things?


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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InvisibleRavus
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Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
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Re: Chaos [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #4471568 - 07/29/05 11:14 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

It's an arbitrary distinction. Where does the difference between chaos and order actually label itself as such? It is us doing the labeling.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Registered: 04/17/01
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Re: Chaos [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #4471700 - 07/30/05 12:09 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

What if Chaos is, itself, a form of Order?


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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OfflineDrink_Punk_Soda
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Re: Chaos [Re: trendal]
    #4471725 - 07/30/05 12:15 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I think it's much more likely that Order is a form of Chaos. After all, what are the chances that you'd exist, to arrange things in a way you can understand? And what are the chances it'll make sense to anyone or anything else?


--------------------

Kumbayah my lord, Kumbayah...


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Chaos [Re: trendal]
    #4471744 - 07/30/05 12:17 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I think it is.

Order is for control freaks. Speaking of, I have just been ordering my husband how to rebuild my daughters closet so her room can be kept more orderly. :whistling:

If there was no chaos, I would loose reasons to break down and laugh at life. Long live chaos!


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Chaos [Re: Drink_Punk_Soda]
    #4471795 - 07/30/05 12:26 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

After all, what are the chances that you'd exist, to arrange things in a way you can understand?

Obviously quite high. I am here, after all :wink:

I'm sure there are many realities in which I don't exist, but in this Universe there is a 100% chance that I have existed for a little over 24 years.

And what are the chances it'll make sense to anyone or anything else?

I know full well of my insignificance in the greater picture. I mean about as much to the cosmos as a bacteria living on a grain of sand does to me.


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: Chaos [Re: trendal]
    #4471805 - 07/30/05 12:29 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

I'm sure there are many realities in which I don't exist, but in this Universe there is a 100% chance that I have existed for a little over 24 years.




What if you're actually just a 7 year-old Trendal dreaming this entire life?

Or what if it's all an illusion and you're actually a two thousand year-old tree going mad from age?


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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OfflineDrink_Punk_Soda
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Re: Chaos [Re: trendal]
    #4471808 - 07/30/05 12:30 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

:lol:

Just because you exist doesn't mean that it was a likely occurrance!

:zoom:


--------------------

Kumbayah my lord, Kumbayah...


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Offlinecrunchytoast
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Registered: 04/07/05
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Re: Chaos [Re: Drink_Punk_Soda]
    #4472187 - 07/30/05 01:52 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

I think it's much more likely that Order is a form of Chaos




"underneath all rationality lies delirium, drift"


--------------------
"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger


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InvisibleELECTRIC
I'm a Puppet

Registered: 07/22/05
Posts: 177
Loc: Bonded with string...
Re: Chaos [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #4472909 - 07/30/05 05:36 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

If Order, something with several Recognazable Patterns were something like:


1111001111001111001111001111001111001111001111 = OwRP 


Then I would imagine chaos, from one limit to its other, as ONE ungrecognizable unit, lacking of any trully identifiable patterns, surrounding a bundle of relative order; like the one we happen to be in:


010100011011111101101011000101OwRP11100111001101011010110011010





To illustrate how I believe that chaos affects order, I will take OwRP and "apply", for a period, a little bit of chaos.  What you get is a snapshot in time of what OwRP has unfloded into:


010010101011010000101000101110011001001111010011011110




What if the changing of things was related to our current Universe Expanding theory?  And at it expands, it does so through a bundle of Chaos.  The two react with one another and a gradient of changes is observable through a fixed point.



And since the unfolding is through chaos, then how the bundle was from its initial manner of being, changes,  in unpredictable ways.




From within this bundle or order fixed point, you can observe...


You start with the smallest areas, and you see quantum mechanics. That theory is random.  I'd say that it is a connection region, to chaos. You can't imagine a limit to that.

The other end of things the vantage gets bigger. There are plenty of recognizable things.  Then as you get bigger, it gets a little wierd again.  It's just a realtive location of order...  However, the order gradient would make some things look foreign.

The largeness gets to a final amount: infinity.



The endpoints of infinity might begin to become randome again, because right on the other side of the membrane is the chaos.


:lolz0rz:


Yeeeah  Riiigght...

It really dosen't have to be like this...  But I like to look at it this way from time to time.


--------------------
Nos confido phasmatis occultus in vicis postulo nostrum tutela donatus futurus.


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Offlinealsey
meet me in thedreamtimewater...

Registered: 02/17/05
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Re: Chaos [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #4472914 - 07/30/05 05:44 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

chaos theory makes most chaotic things seem quite orderly.


--------------------
"Gently return to the simple physical sensation of the breath. Then do it again, and again, and again. Somewhere in this process, you will come face-to-face with the sudden and shocking realization that you are completely crazy. Your mind is a shrieking, gibbering madhouse on wheels." - ven. henepola gunaratana


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: Chaos [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #4473105 - 07/30/05 09:36 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

LunarEclipse said:
Can you feel it?

Or do you still pretend that you can make order of things?




Both order and chaos exist like hand in glove.  I like Castanadas concept of Tonal and Naugal. Tonal=unending order.  Naugal= the creative energy of Chaos. :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Chaos [Re: alsey]
    #4473114 - 07/30/05 09:48 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

chaos theory makes most chaotic things seem quite orderly.

Please elaborate.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Chaos [Re: Icelander]
    #4473121 - 07/30/05 10:03 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Both order and chaos exist like hand in glove. I like Castanadas concept of Tonal and Naugal. Tonal=unending order. Naugal= the creative energy of Chaos.

I am not sure what Carlos meant by "unending order" of the tonal.  Using music for a tonal example seems to work. :smirk: The various notes (tones) are different and specific measurable frequencies.  These notes are placed in a specific order to make a scale, or a symphony.  All very orderly, repeatable and understandable by future generations of musicians.

Nagual - the creative energy of Chaos.  Some would say that Chaos would be a destructive energy, such as hurricanes or tidal waves.

I don't see the hand in glove fit.  I see order being people using various techniques such as written music to "control" chaos.  Well OK people wear gloves to "control" the icy chaotic wind from reaching their hands.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


Edited by LunarEclipse (07/30/05 10:23 AM)


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: Chaos [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #4473196 - 07/30/05 11:26 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

What was meant by "unending order" was unending order :grin: see? You can keep at it forever. Like science. It discovers and orders things and yet it never ends. The final answer is eternity. The Chaos of the Naugal is not just the distructive forces of nature but all the forces of nature. The hurricane pruns the forest. The volcano noursishes the land. Creativity comes from chaos. Like the yin and yang, both are creations of Tao. Hand in glove.  :smile:

Just a dream I'm having. :grin: :yinyang:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Chaos [Re: Icelander]
    #4473217 - 07/30/05 11:47 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

It's all order or its all chaos, I would suffice to think. :grin:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: Chaos [Re: fireworks_god]
    #4473220 - 07/30/05 11:53 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Could you explain this more. I admit to being slow on the uptake. :tongue:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineDroz
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Re: Chaos [Re: fireworks_god]
    #4473225 - 07/30/05 11:56 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

You could say Chaos is what we live in and Order is after man puts his hands on it.


--------------------
Evolution of Time.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Chaos [Re: Droz]
    #4473232 - 07/30/05 11:58 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Order would have to be there already. We cannot create from nothing.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
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Re: Chaos [Re: Icelander]
    #4473237 - 07/30/05 12:00 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

We, being perceivers, may recognize order as part of the tonal. We cannot perceive the naugal, only witness/experience it.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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