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Anonymous

Re: Law & Chaos [Re: Sclorch]
    #950302 - 10/10/02 06:50 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

AND you make me proud, damn proud if I may be so bold.

Sclorch, that was so moving, like truth personified!

I get it.


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: Law & Chaos [Re: Sclorch]
    #951478 - 10/11/02 12:21 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Relax Sclorch, I'm not debating free will vs. determinism because we believe in the same thing. I just want to examine the belief system that led to that belief.

You obviously value your observations. There is no evidence for the existence of free will, but its existence doesn't conflict with any known physical law. So doesn't it just come down to direct experience?

Good, so would you say that you are open to the possibility that God exists?


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Law & Chaos [Re: infidelGOD]
    #952431 - 10/11/02 09:27 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

There are always possibilities.

My problem lies in the dogma that surrounds such a God. Heaven for "good" people and hell for "bad" people... angry God or a compassionate God... prime mover or a guiding force (still here)... a holistic (all the energy in the universe, matter included) or some ethereal, intangible being... basis of morality?...

You see, with all the options available... and everybody claiming God is a different mix... Why should I even bother defining God? Since God hasn't made him/her/itself known to me and I have neither the want nor the need to just "have faith" and put all my trust in some being that I'm imagining is there (I have no evidence... only testimony from others). Besides, of all the people that believe in God (that I've encountered), I feel I have a much stronger grasp on morality, ethics, philosophy, spirituality, and reality than 99.999% of them (actually, all of them, but I'll leave it open).


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineStrumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
Re: Law & Chaos [Re: Sclorch]
    #952749 - 10/11/02 11:14 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Choices are illusions.

Once you make a choice you realize that you had no other choice due to the fact that you "chose" whatever it was that you "chose."

When somebody "chooses" something, and then later says it was their choice and that they COULD have done something else, they're lying. They couldn't have done anything else, because they've already done what they did.

This probably seems like drivel, but it makes perfect sense to me - nobody's really got "free will." Its all circumstance and brain-chemistry. Things just seem like choice the closer to the present they are. However, look way back in the past and tell me you really COULD have done something other than the things that you've done. You couldn't have, because you wouldn't be you. aww nevermind people hate determinists so I'll be quiet on that subject for now ;-)

Oh and regarding order and structure: It is necessary. When I look at nature I don't see chaos and disorder - I see much more HIGHLY-structured, precisely-calculated results of a system that is so far beyond common comprehension that it LOOKS like chaos and disorder. Its SOOOO well-organized and precise that it almost doesn't even look organized OR precise. Eventually we'll get close to nature with regards to highly-advanced methods of organization and structure - I'm already seeing it here on the internet and with computers in general - directory trees and things like that may seem chaotic to an alien, but to us humans.... "hey those are my files - see i've got all my whatever files in this folder organized in subfolders by date and numbered, and all my whichever data in here organized by these parameters"

My post keeps getting weirder and weirder, so I'll stop

-=- Matt/Strumpling -=-
weicuyneoirucghmlkghexqrmoiugrh,godsihglksdfjhlfkjh - I didn't chose to do that - I HAD to do it.


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


Edited by Strumpling (10/11/02 11:19 AM)


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Law & Chaos [Re: Strumpling]
    #952851 - 10/11/02 05:14 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

This probably seems like drivel, but it makes perfect sense to me - nobody's really got "free will." Its all circumstance and brain-chemistry.

Hmmm... would you care to enlighten the entire field of cognitive science with your research that has the brain completely figured out?

Or maybe you just skimmed through all the posts above...
You either missed all that^^^ or you're intentionally ignoring them because all you care about is asserting your opinion rather than REALLY contributing to the thread.

And, by the way, you should take all my criticism personally... I was trying so hard to hurt your feelings. :wink: 


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineStrumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
Re: Law & Chaos [Re: Sclorch]
    #953078 - 10/11/02 07:07 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

smooch my ass I had to leave - sometimes reality rushes your forum-time; I'm sure you've run into that situation before.

I saw an interesting topic and had somethign to say about it yet I had to leave to go to work to make money to pay for an internet connection and so on....

Believe me I read everything when I can, but I was in a hurry and had to post some thoughts.

why are you winking at me? is that supposed to negate your attack?

edit #1 (addition):anyway when i get home from work i'll go through everything as i usually prefer to do and hopefully i'll notice why you're suddenly so pissed off and condscending towards me

edit #2 (addition): No respect for the newbs around here I see. Boy I feel so welcome here already.


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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


Edited by Strumpling (10/11/02 07:10 PM)


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InvisibleShroomismM
Space Travellin
Male User Gallery
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Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,006
Loc: 9th Dimension
Re: Law & Chaos [Re: Sclorch]
    #953082 - 10/11/02 07:10 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

My perception of hell is a life devoted to and living in fear, and heaven a life devoted to love.


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Law & Chaos [Re: Strumpling]
    #953314 - 10/11/02 09:18 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

edit #2 (addition): No respect for the newbs around here I see. Boy I feel so welcome here already.

I have little respect for those that jump in on a conversation without bothering to follow it from the start (it's not like the material is unavailable... all you have to do is scroll a little).

why are you winking at me? is that supposed to negate your attack?

No, it's supposed to indicate sarcasm... you figure it out.

Believe me I read everything when I can, but I was in a hurry and had to post some thoughts.

Yeah... it's best to rush through these things and blurt out your opinion without checking to see if someone already stated something similar.

Back to the topic now...
*hopes the bickering didn't kill the thread*


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Anonymous

Re: Law & Chaos [Re: Strumpling]
    #953379 - 10/11/02 09:53 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

I will welcome you graciously if you'll kiss my ring. :wink:

Seriously, I am glad that you jumped in when you did.  There is nothing wrong with that irregardless of what Sclorch says, provided you can swim. :wink:

Stick around, we need more determinists in this forum. :wink:

I have something in my eye.  Can you see it? :wink:

Cheers, :wink: 


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Anonymous

Re: Law & Chaos [Re: Sclorch]
    #953382 - 10/11/02 09:55 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

I feel I have a much stronger grasp on morality, ethics, philosophy, spirituality, and reality than 99.999% of them (actually, all of them, but I'll leave it open).

Didn't know you felt that way.  I would too but then again, I don't rely on feelings. :wink:

Cheers, :wink:

All this winking is making my eye strain. :wink: 


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OfflineCleverName
the cloudsshould know meby now...

Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 1,121
Loc: red earth painted with mi...
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
Re: Law & Chaos [Re: Sclorch]
    #953387 - 10/11/02 09:57 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Sclorch, my buddy, my pal, relax....loosen up alittle bit.


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if you can't find the truth right where you are, where else do you expect to find it?

this is the purpose


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OfflineAdamist
ℚṲℰϟ✞ЇѺℵ ℛ∃Åʟḯ†У
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Posts: 10,211
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Re: Law & Chaos [Re: ]
    #953442 - 10/11/02 10:43 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

sorry for making a whole reply just to laugh but......

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


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:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:


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OfflineCalen
journeyman
Registered: 08/23/02
Posts: 87
Last seen: 18 years, 5 months
Re: Law & Chaos [Re: Sclorch]
    #953682 - 10/12/02 12:05 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Bahahah

The way you write and express yourself was already determined from the moment you registered an account + username here, Sclorch. that nanosecond of gibberish you wrote was still the notable character this forum knows you by. From my observations, the way you write has a vibrant color of creativity and emotional appeal. Ya got the flow, yo! :P

So telling, I see that link between your writing style and the obvious fact displayed on my screen. I am so tempted to toss lighted TNT sticks into the discussion but..... I....... must........resist.

*phew


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Law & Chaos [Re: Calen]
    #954355 - 10/12/02 03:55 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Hmmm... if my screenname were green, I bet a different tune would be sung.
Anyways...

So telling, I see that link between your writing style and the obvious fact displayed on my screen. I am so tempted to toss lighted TNT sticks into the discussion but..... I....... must........resist.

Actually, I wouldn't mind it much if you did... as long as you didn't disrupt the (original) flow.  I love a good argument (with intelligent opposition... like what infidelGOD brings to the table).  Holding back only hurts us all. 
Fuckin' let me have it man...
Yeah. :wink: 


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Anonymous

Re: Law & Chaos [Re: Sclorch]
    #955427 - 10/12/02 06:24 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Hmmm... if my screenname were green, I bet a different tune would be sung.

Never, ever ever, make that assumption.

Here are two things required by all moderators by the members they moderate.

1. Never moderate.

2. Never have a viewpoint that disagrees with theirs.

Do that, and you have it made.

Cheers,


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OfflineStrumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
Re: Law & Chaos [Re: ]
    #955605 - 10/12/02 08:17 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

wow this thread got really stupid really quick.


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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Anonymous

Re: Law & Chaos [Re: Strumpling]
    #955635 - 10/12/02 08:37 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

You'll have that.

Cheers,


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Shop: Original Sensible Seeds High THC Strains   PhytoExtractum Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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