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OfflineCheebatoke
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Science vs. Art
    #3922720 - 03/15/05 09:53 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

When it comes down to it are they not the same and if not what differences are there between the two?
Most will agree art is simply manifested creativity. An idea or curiosity transformed from our thoughts to the real world. How does Science differ?

Both can be made to make you think and enjoy along with all other emotions. Does it all boil down to a human desire to explore the unknown and satisfy our curiosity?


--------------------
The only thing permanent is change.


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: Science vs. Art [Re: Cheebatoke]
    #3922727 - 03/15/05 09:55 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Science generally has more practical implications... art however is limited as far as its use.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Science vs. Art [Re: Cheebatoke]
    #3922807 - 03/15/05 10:14 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Science is a system of testing ideas for validity, so that we might further our knowledge, and test new methods of all kinds things.

Art is when you make... whatever you want for whatever reason you want. Their goals are completely different. You can use the principles of science to create art, and you can use the creativity involved in creating art to think of new hypothesis, and ways of testing them.

The two are in no way at odds with one another.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Science vs. Art [Re: Phluck]
    #3922928 - 03/15/05 10:37 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Art is manifestation of imagination and subjectivity. Wheather we want it or not, everything begins as a reality, but once it enters our mind it ends up as art.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Science vs. Art [Re: Phluck]
    #3924757 - 03/16/05 10:57 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Phluck more or less pinned my opionion on this one. Science and Art are two quite different things, but they are not at odds with eachother.

I would consider some scientists to be artists, in the way they perform their research...and I would consider some artists to be scientists in the way they seek out their art.


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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Offlinealsey
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Re: Science vs. Art [Re: Cheebatoke]
    #3924776 - 03/16/05 11:05 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

science is a very well defined thing: you make observations. you make predictions based on those observations. then you make more observations to see if your predictions were correct. if they weren't you make new predictions based on your new observations. its an ongoing process to improve our knowledge of how things work.

art is not as well defined. it is expression of thought and can take many different forms.

art and science are not opposed to eachother, they are just different. i'm a physics student, but i still paint pictures and write songs in my free time.


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Offlinea_h_w
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Re: Science vs. Art [Re: alsey]
    #3924796 - 03/16/05 11:15 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

what is the science of art or the art of science?


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Science vs. Art [Re: a_h_w]
    #3924825 - 03/16/05 11:29 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

it is like breathing (the breath is also spirit)
science is appreciation of the world - the in breath
art is expression of humanity - the out breath
one needs both
one is both.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Science vs. Art [Re: Cheebatoke]
    #3925354 - 03/16/05 02:26 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

I can't separate the two try as I did. Science is an art form and if you are into art you know damn well the science involved.

I can say science is the art form of understanding creations. How can one not say that all science methodogy is not the result of a creative endeavor to understand the manifest or how to manifest.

There is physics involved with ballet and math and timing with music and geometry with abstract art. Even mixing paint colors is acting as a chemist.

A scale is a piece of art work and a tool of science. Getting a man to the moon involved a lot of creative imagination.

I'm with Red here, one is both.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: Science vs. Art [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3925357 - 03/16/05 02:28 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

I propose a triumvirate: Science, Art, Craft


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Science vs. Art [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3925384 - 03/16/05 02:36 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

craft is just repeating, artfully & scientifically, breathing.

the tools of science are crafts, true science is inspiration, true art is expression.


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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: Science vs. Art [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3925688 - 03/16/05 03:47 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

the tools of science are crafts

craft serves art, too. Craft could be defined as neither science nor art, but like them requiring much skill and time investiture (is that a word?) to be successful. Could also be defined as the meetingplace of Art and Science.

My dad's occupation is making bowls and platters on a lathe, out of wood. He's honed his skills at this profession for longer than I've been alive, and can make pieces very quickly, effortlessly, and accurately. Craft? But most of his pieces are unique; he doesn't do sets of dinner plates or stuff like that. Art?


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Science vs. Art [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3925707 - 03/16/05 03:50 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Artful and scientific


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Science vs. Art [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3925804 - 03/16/05 04:07 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

I'd say that art is expression, and that every state of being is an expression. Every aspect of the universe is a representation of something. Every variable of the universe is a work of art in this sense as every variable is an expression of that which brought said variable into being. Art as we traditionally know it, humans creating a physical or conceptual expression, is quite simply humans with force flowing through them. Whether or not we have the intention to produce a work of art (work is emphasized to illustrate a relationship between words: art, action, force, work, etc... ) for the sake of consciously expressing ourselves doesn't matter, as art is really expression itself.

I don't see why science is drawn to lie acrossed from and in conflict with art, considering this.... :wink:

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Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Science vs. Art [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3925838 - 03/16/05 04:16 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

nahh...
just expressing is just expressing
you need to intend to express artfully to create art.

lots of expressions are just that, blobs emerging from unconcerned tubes.

we have to be concerned tubes to express art.


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OfflineDarcho
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Re: Science vs. Art [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3925843 - 03/16/05 04:17 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

There can be the art of science, or the science of art, but art and science are not one and the same.

The art of science is the creative process of science.
The science of art is the techical process of art.

Art is concerned with the many subjective perceptions of nature.
Science is concerned with discovering the objective nature through empirical evidence.

In art, an elephant can be seen as a grey circle of paint on a canvas.
In science, a grey circle of paint is seen as a grey circle of paint and not an elephant.

The two are different.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Science vs. Art [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3925896 - 03/16/05 04:36 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
nahh...
just expressing is just expressing
you need to intend to express artfully to create art.




I don't think that is necessarily true, actually. What draws the line between expression and art, then? I cannot see the intention for the expression to be art to be what marks this distinction that you propose, as no one is privleged enough to know another's intention (or unintentions) behind their expression. Art is defined just as much by the creator of art as by those who observe it - intention does not transfer between perspectives.

In order to distinguish between expression and art, one has to judge what is art and what is not. The observation and interpretation of expression is very subjective and does not have any objective substance. To some, breathing itself is an art. Others have limited conscious awareness that they are even breathing at all.

Art is expression, conveyance, representation. One doesn't have to set out to create art to make art.

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Science vs. Art [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3926081 - 03/16/05 05:17 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

a good argument.
but not much more than that.
tooth paste is expressed from its industrial bag
not art
things squeezed out of any hole are not art.
one must intend.

sure it may be interresting to follow scat
but to perceive art is ennobling
you don't know what another thinks or intends
but you can tell they meant it
and usually
you an tell if it is pure accident

some accidents are part of art.

not all expressions are art.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Science vs. Art [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3926226 - 03/16/05 05:41 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
some accidents are part of art.

not all expressions are art.




A good arguement as well (:D), but others do not hold such a refined, distinct sense of what constitutes art as others might. I agree with what you say about having a subtle sense of intention and meaning that can detect hints of intention and meaning in others expressions, and I also agree that the passion, intensity, emotion, or meaning that artwork conveys as a result of conscious intention and purpose placed in that artwork is really what's its all about, in fact, I stress conscious intention and purpose being put into everything a person does, but my point is that the presence of intention or meaning does not distinguish art from general expression.

I feel that making this distinction does not work as the definiton of art is not limited by this distinction, and that any difference is implied by ourselves (if we choose to do so). To make this distinction requires holding a standard for what qualifies art, and then judging this art to see if it meets standards. Since art is an expression, there is no seperation between the expression itself and that which expressed it. The expression exists only in its own context, its an entirely unique perspective, in its own realm. Considering it in its own perspective would seem to not allow for any standard, objective judgement.

To judge expressions in this manner would also mean that art is only art if that which expressed it also meets certain requirements. Not everything that expresses itself is capable of consciously placing intention into its actions. Nature itself is living art, and a considerable defintion for art is human's imitation of nature and its forces. All art really is a representation of nature. Does nature consciously place intention in the same way that humans do when they sculpt? Does the fact that it doesn't negate the artistic, aesthetic values in nature's expressions (that is, the expression of itself... technically, all expression is an expression of itself)?

I cannot perceive of any context that an expression can be put into that disqualifies that expression of its artistic value. :wink:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Science vs. Art [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3926368 - 03/16/05 05:58 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

hmmm..

well, I don't mean that they need to express any messages
no hidden meanings are required, in fact they detract - usually.

the intent I am referring to is in the act of creating, the intent to express some feeling, some sense, some apprehension, some angst.

often during this act one is selfless and it is as if something is passing through the artist enroute to canvas (other media too), for the artist this can be cathartic, and if so lucky for the viewer too, it is even better then.

this may be subtle, but far less subtle than the specifics of a thought or some secret message (eeuuggh! I detest secret message art), and this is far more fulfilling too when it hits.


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General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

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