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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Art + Music
    #3358918 - 11/14/04 07:52 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

What biological function does this serve? How did these things help us evolve as a species? How does a beautiful painting or a touching ballad give us an advantage against natural predators or the forces of nature? It must serve some purpose, or we wouldn't have developed it, right?


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


Edited by silversoul7 (11/14/04 08:05 AM)


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Art + Music [Re: silversoul7]
    #3359065 - 11/14/04 09:38 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Creation is a form of expression. It allows us to release that which we can't find a way to release otherwise. And it feels wonderful. What more reason does there need to be?


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OfflinePopeHypocriteIII
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Re: Art + Music [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #3359093 - 11/14/04 09:57 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I don't think that either of these things are born of or can be directly linked to a survival instinct, unless you consider the pleasure that they invest in life to be merely an instrument to persuade people to continue living.

But yes, they most assuredly have a purpose, even if that purpose is one which we devise ourselves. What they represent, I think, is the communication of ideas in an aesthetically or intellectually pleasing fashion; they are our thoughts and feelings made manifest with an appreciable degree of skill and/or insight. We enjoy them for the same reason that we appreciate any stimulation of our faculties. But then I think that the human mind is curious by default (that is a function of our survival instinct - it helps us make sense of our environment) and enjoys being exercised. Your mileage (or kilometreage) may vary.

And with that, it's well past time for bed over here in the antipodes.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Art + Music [Re: PopeHypocriteIII] * 1
    #3359129 - 11/14/04 10:30 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

wrong
surprisingly people really have error prone opinions about evolution.
the varieties of lifeforms that emerge, do so spontaneously like art expressions do.
only commercial art (the degenerate form which serves business interests) has any purpose and it is a purpose serving the financial interests of investors.
and yet expression (and art) is cathartic, a relief and balm to the artist and viewer alike. (artist and viewer invest just moments of their lives).

if purpose has to be assigned to art, is could be to the cause of raising the human spirit.

evolution on the other hand relates to the survival of groups of various individuals and their offspring through challenges that are more varied than merely competition for niche, healing from injury, resistance to infectious disease, and adaptation to change and catastrophy.

After some group has completely died off, we may then say that the survivors had evolved, but this is quite banal - yet in modern language the term "evolution" has become a euphemism for the true horror that it really means; mollycoddling the whole aspect of racial cleansing and destruction into a more gentled term for improvement.

Evolution is not the gentle process at all, and it is also not purposed - none is evident or likely to emerge when the process is really examined.

Life on the other hand deserves to be examined continuously for any signs and particularly for the emergence of Art.

Forget purpose - forget evolution - live in art - art lives and life thrives.

(excuse the rant just back from reading some new age pap re RUMI - a favorite- in which the term evolution was tossed around like a blessing - IMO the word itself "evolution" should be extinct)


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Art + Music [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3359136 - 11/14/04 10:35 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Evolution is the ultimate creative process.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Art + Music [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3359344 - 11/14/04 12:07 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
Evolution is the ultimate creative process.



maybe if you are thinking in a shiva vishnu contentious unity of opposites kind of way;

but evolution is always about what happens after you eliminate a large body of breeding populations. (antithesis of creation)

Sure there is some creative process is the clearing of canvas. But after that point it is development.

Most people have confused successful mutation with evolution.

Evolution is much more about the extinction of a group and the new dominant form persisting, than about the arrival of new forms.

In the case of art, both the creator and the observer see it and gets it.

Sadly no observer sees evolution. only distant descendents with fossil records have any clue that anything is different.

really it lacks sponteneity and other aspects of art. Unearthing of the fossils, however, has some of the sense of discovery and wonder same as creation of art and observance of the mystery of life issues, but confusing fossils with the evolutionary process itself is missing the point as well.

The fossil is strange since the creature is no more due to extinction, loss, death; well maybe that is a a kind of poetry, but not the new age sweet idea that is subscribed.


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Offlinestefan
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Re: Art + Music [Re: silversoul7]
    #3359513 - 11/14/04 01:19 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

it makes you feel good. when you're happy you have more motivation to do things. if you do things you'll get better at them. the more things you're good at the higher your chance of survival.
Also people who look at life in a positive way heal quicker and don't get sick less than non-positive people.


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Art + Music [Re: stefan]
    #3359532 - 11/14/04 01:25 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Good to see you venturing out of MA+L, man. :wink:


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Offlinestefan
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Re: Art + Music [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #3359823 - 11/14/04 02:27 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

yeah I thought I should visit this place more often, and here I am :laugh:

Sometimes when I read something in here I want to reply but can't get out of my words. I just need more practice I guess. It'll be good for my english too :thumbup:


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Art + Music [Re: stefan]
    #3359856 - 11/14/04 02:32 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I hear you man.. I have the same problem sometimes.

Actually, since I stopped smoking cannabis daily it's become MUCH MUCH easier for me to find the words to express my opinions here. Don't know if that's relevant to you, but I thought I'd toss it out there. :smile:


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Art + Music [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #3359896 - 11/14/04 02:40 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

JacquesCousteau said:
Creation is a form of expression. It allows us to release that which we can't find a way to release otherwise. And it feels wonderful. What more reason does there need to be?




exactly

and the wallpaper matching your shirt thing is excellent.


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Art + Music [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3359933 - 11/14/04 02:47 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

That's not me in the picture.. but yeah, I fucking love that shot.

It's from the movie "Garden State" which came out in August and received almost no attention from anyone it seems... I haven't seen it yet, but the preview is full of these absolutely stunning cinematic shots (such as that one) that left me in complete awe.

I am hoping to see it quite soon. :smile:


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Offlinestefan
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Re: Art + Music [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #3360159 - 11/14/04 03:53 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I usually smoke 2-3 times a week, I'm certainly not a daily smoker :sun:


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Art + Music [Re: stefan]
    #3360170 - 11/14/04 03:57 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Wasn't assuming or anything, just throwing it out there incase it was relevant to you.

Do you feel that your 2-3 times a week smoking has had a negative effect on your cognitive thinking abilities?

For me, the negative effects came in the form of "fractured thinking".. I had a difficult time keeping my brain focused on the thought at hand. It was almost as if I would just think "little bits" of a complete thought, continuously.


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Offlinestefan
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Re: Art + Music [Re: JacquesCousteau]
    #3360507 - 11/14/04 05:30 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Wasn't assuming or anything, just throwing it out there incase it was relevant to you.



I know :thumbup:

Quote:

Do you feel that your 2-3 times a week smoking has had a negative effect on your cognitive thinking abilities? 



No not at all. well maybe just after I wake up after having smoked the evning before :smirk:
But not in general :laugh:


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InvisibleFloydian
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Re: Art + Music [Re: silversoul7]
    #3361340 - 11/14/04 08:40 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

"What biological function does this serve?"

A large part of my education has been in the audio department of my school and we had a long conversation about "psychoacoustics" in one of my classes. As far as sound and music is concerned we hypothosized that humans have learned emotional and physiological reactions to sound that have developed throughout our evolution. The reaction will greatly depend on frequency, amplitude, and all the other complex characteristics of sound. But we were having fun talking about how a really hard hitting bass pumping 4/4 beat makes us want to move and dance might have somthing to do with our decendants millions of years ago when were were still small rodents, the sound of a large approaching predator would emit low frequency thumps through the ground and instigating the flight or fight reaction in us. Maybe dance music and dancing is a much more complex and evolved form of this reaction. Or maybe atmosphereic sounds similiar to water rushing (white/pink noise)have a calming effect on us because they indicated to a primitive form of ourselves that life sustaining water was nearby.

Even tho these examples are dumbed down simplifications of something that is much much more complex, I believe that our reaction to, and the biological function of music/sound, has much to do with how sound effected our species before we invented music and learned to control, manipulate, record, and reproduce sound.


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Don't squeeze the pancake batter


Edited by Floydian (11/14/04 08:45 PM)


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Art + Music [Re: Floydian]
    #3361397 - 11/14/04 08:51 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

cognitive thinking abilities?
:confused: :heart:


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Disclaimer!?


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InvisibleFloydian
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Re: Art + Music [Re: Gomp]
    #3361414 - 11/14/04 08:54 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

what about them? im confused.


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Don't squeeze the pancake batter


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Art + Music [Re: Floydian]
    #3361477 - 11/14/04 09:12 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

yeah, what about them??
and/or what is it? :P
:laugh:


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Disclaimer!?


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InvisibleFloydian
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Re: Art + Music [Re: Gomp]
    #3361517 - 11/14/04 09:32 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

communication breakdown ... i still have no idea what it is you were trying to say (shrugs and moves on)


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Don't squeeze the pancake batter


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