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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Assumptions [Re: Sinbad]
    #3826385 -

Sinbad,

So what you are saying is that assumptions are like having a lock on the front door of your house. It simply holds the attention of a would be crook so that his mind does not see the open window next to it.

I learned a long time ago, that everything in life has a way that you are expected to view it. Like a locked box you can not determine the easiest way to access it until you can view it from all sides.

For example, Some years ago I was working for a company that had several retail stores. We were setting up a new store one day and some one locked the keys to the register in the drawer of the register. To open the drawer you needed to keys which were inside the drawer. I watched as the MIS Director spent 30 min trying to pick the lock with a paper clip. After him others tried, each attacking the lock with a different tool. After 2 hours the MIS Director stated that he was calling a lock smith to come out and open it. I asked if I could give it a shot and he responded "Sure, give it a try" I ignored the lock and looked at the drawer from each of the 6 sides. When I lifted it I realized that there was no bottom on the drawer and simply reached in an pulled the release at the back of the cash drawer.

All problems have a solution if you just know where to look.


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Re: Assumptions [Re: Cyber]
    #3826393 -

Cyber said:
Sinbad,

So what you are saying is that assumptions are like having a lock on the front door of your house. It simply holds the attention of a would be crook so that his mind does not see the open window next to it.




No, that would mean that assumptions help to hold the attention of the thief. Its more like your assumptions are so busy keeping the front door shut, that 'you' do'nt notice the thief comming through the open window. Very shortly all the benefit of the meditation has been stolen, and your left with bitter disapointment and confusion.  :frown: :confused:


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Re: Assumptions [Re: Sinbad]
    #3826394 -

actions is reality.

If you don't act anything, nothing exists.

That's the difference between an actions and a fact, actionss exist, and make things exist.

Facts would not exist, without acting that existing facts.

acting is a great tool. Everything is a great tool. You are a great tool, and so am I.

If you acting that if you meditate you will clear your mind and become happy - that *will* work. Its just a way of changing your actions by acting that doing this or that will change them.

Coincidentally, meditating is doing nothing, or close to it.

Meditating is aspiring to do nothing, and less.

Meditating is a way of changing reality (actions) by doing nothing.

I think that's pretty fucking grand.
:sun:


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Re: Assumptions [Re: Gomp]
    #3826399 -

I think you may still be confused. Actions most certainly aren't reality. If you commit no actions within your reality, this doesn't mean that reality would cease to exist for you, unless you died of dehydration because you never drank any water.

The facts exist regardless of ones actions, for example the fact that the human body requires water isn't dependent on your drinking it.

Do you understand?

Mediation isnt about acting, its about observing ones own mind. Your posts are becomming tiresome, and offer very little in the way of wisdom and originality.  :rolleyes:

Changing ones actions from selfish to selfless is good as a prerequisite to meditation, but to say that this changes reality itself is incorrect, maybe your perspective on reality will change, but the basic nature of reality itself is never affected.

Again be careful, aspiring to do nothing, sounds alot like laziness. Do not be confused, mediation is there to wake us up to what is going in our minds, not to dull us into a state of nothingness.


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Re: Assumptions [Re: Sinbad]
    #3826494 -

Reality is reality.

If you don't do anything, nothing exists.

That's the difference between doing something and a fact, doing exist, and make things exist.

Facts would not exist, without doing that facts exist.

Doing is a great tool. Everything is a great tool. You are a great tool, and so am I.

If you done that if you meditate you will clear your mind and become happy - that *will* work. Its just a way of changing what you did by doing again, changing them.

Coincidentally, meditating is doing nothing, or close to it.

Meditating is aspiring to do nothing, and less.

Meditating is a way of changing reality (does) by doing nothing.

I think that's pretty fucking grand.  :sun:


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Re: Assumptions [Re: Gomp]
    #3826500 -

:shake:  :whatever:  :shake:


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Edited by Sinbad (02/24/05 10:27 AM)

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Re: Assumptions [Re: Sinbad]
    #3826518 -

:eyemouth:


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Re: Assumptions [Re: Gomp]
    #3826887 -

meditation permits less reactive attitude, so at least while doing it fewer assumptions will be made and less attitudinal filtering will be going on- instead the mind opens as much without filter as possible and keeps as non reactive as possible.

all we can do while typing and reading what is typed is assume that the typer and the typee know what it might mean.

(I do assume that gomp knows what I assume I know through different use of simmilar language)


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Re: Assumptions [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3827802 -

Or we can have no assumptions whatsoever! Then our words may be accessable and understandble to all with basic intelligence.


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Re: Assumptions [Re: Sinbad]
    #3829091 -

in a perfect world


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Assumptions [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3831554 -

Well, if we observe ourseves continually, then its certainly possible to uproot all of our misplaced assumtpions, expectations and goals. This world is already perfect, its just a shame we can see that most of the time. :crazy:


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Re: Assumptions [Re: Sinbad]
    #3831772 -

Sinbad said:
Well, if we observe ourseves continually, then its certainly possible to uproot all of our misplaced assumtpions, expectations and goals. This world is already perfect, its just a shame we can see that most of the time. :crazy:


if you are observing
who is doing the uprooting.

this is not an important approach, only 3 things are to be uprooted, hatred greed and delusion; pull them out (of yourself) where and when you see them no matter what you are doing.

as far as attitude goes, you pay attention and see where things fit together. that is usually enough


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Re: Assumptions [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3832118 -

When the observer turns to observe itself, nothing is found. That is the point at which all conceptual delusion dissolves.

As far as attitude goes, uprooting ones self-cherishing attitude is the only remedy for selfishness and ignorance.


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Re: Assumptions [Re: Sinbad]
    #3832262 -

there is really no need to make it complicated

& no need to react to me on this as these are not my instructions about the 3 immoral roots and 3 moral roots:
it is part of dhammapada, (as well as abhidhamma), - very basic stuff - it affects all of karma including the meditation process.

assumptions are part of the attitude engine which is part of the personality program - and that is what each of us are running - it's essence may be voidness, but we want it running in top form, and we need to keep pulling out the 3 immoral roots as they crop up.

the rest falls into place nicely especially if you are meditating.

meditating is a nice habit to develop.


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Re: Assumptions [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3835803 -

How am i complicating matters?

Meditation is not just a nice habbit, it is a nessarasy part of our daily lives. If we are continually observing ourselves we can relaize and discover everything about who we are and why we suffer. We dont need to refer to any scriptures to enable us to observe our condition, although they can certainly be useful in understanding how our minds function and how to overcome obstacles in our practice.

Assumptions blind our ability to see things how they are, im not going to repeat myself, you may disagree, but the fact still remains. I have given many examples of such instances, and full commentry on the fact.

We will now have to agree to disagree.

"who is doing the uprooting"

This is a good question, you should look into that during meditation.



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Edited by Sinbad (02/26/05 05:36 AM)

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Re: Assumptions [Re: Sinbad]
    #3835825 -

Sinbad, :smile:

Can I assume that you will not be posting in my thread over yonder...?    :smirk:


:::::trying the reverse psychology method in assumption the he will fall for it and put his signature there so people can see the colors I was talking about::::::


:evil:


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I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."
>^;;^<

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Re: Assumptions [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3835843 -

You can assume whatever you wish, but your assumptions will blind you to the facts, until i make my actions and prove them either correct or incorrect.

Best not to assume anything, its a waste of energy. Instead try to see things clearly and nakedly without assumptions or expectations.

In that way you perceive things as they are, and not how you assume or expect them to be.


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Re: Assumptions [Re: Sinbad]
    #3835890 -

wishes are reality.

If you don't wish anything, nothing exists.

Thats the difference between an wish and a fact, wishes exist, and make things exist.

Facts would not exist, without wishing that facts exist.

wishing is a great tool. Everything is a great tool. You are a great tool, and so am I.

If you wish that if you meditate you will clear your mind and become happy - that *will* work. Its just a way of changing your wishes by wishing that doing this or that will change them.

Coincidentally, meditating is doing nothing, or close to it.

Meditating is aspiring to do nothing, and less.

Meditating is a way of changing reality (wishings) by doing nothing.

I think thats pretty fucking grand.  :sun:


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Disclaimer!?

Edited by Gomp (02/26/05 07:36 AM)

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Re: Assumptions [Re: Gomp]
    #3835891 -

Are you as old as your avatar suggests?  :tongue2:

Do'nt you have your own words to manipulate?  :grin:

Do you have anything original to add?


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Re: Assumptions [Re: Sinbad]
    #3835894 -

I am as old, as my age suggests!?  :tongue2:

yes. that depends, however on the observer. :P


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Disclaimer!?

Edited by Gomp (02/26/05 07:49 AM)

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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