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InvisibleMOTH
Wild Woman
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Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 23,431
Loc: In the jungle
Re: women and art [Re: looner2]
    #3514260 - 12/17/04 03:28 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

looner2 said:
You're out of your mind! Most women I know are not focused on being better than men, that's just ridiculousness.

First off, I took the "being better" part from ellenmyshade, she is the one that said it first... read:

For many women, it's not about being equal to the male anymore...it's about being better. In my opinion, that's a faulty mindset.





Yes, I said that, but allow me to elaborate. "Better" was perhaps too broad a word to use.  Overall, I like being a woman.  But I cannot deny that there is something weird going on within my gender in regards to balance.  Keep in mind that this is my observation *overall,* as I try to give every person the benefit of a doubt. 

Many women behave as though they have a chip on their shoulder, as though they are "owed" something simply on virtue of being a woman.  Some women (not all of course, just making a point) are rabid men abusers, not just physically, but emotionally as well.  Most of my female friends will REFUSE to compromise in a relationship, leaving that burden to the male.  I have seen this with domestic issues, such as female to male abuse being tolerated, while male to female abuse carrying much harsher penalties. 

I have had a personal friend accused as a rapist, and you better believe that hell broke lose upon him...he was instantly painted in a negative light.  The accusations were proved to be false later on, but the treatment he recieved was abysmal.  It troubles me that we are no longer giving guys the benefit of a doubt when it comes to the issue of rape.  We are conditioned to automatically believe the female for some reason.  :confused:

Now, it sort of seems that women get a negative reputation because they handle problems differently then men do.  Women use guile to get what they want, and a less direct approach.  They are better at using what can be seen as "underhanded" tactics to achieve a goal.  I'm not saying this is good or bad, just pointing out that men and women handle issues differently. 

The one thing that irks me about my fellow females, is the "entitlement attitude" that I consistantly come across in them.  I think women feel as though they've been oppressed for many centuries, so they feel like they deserve some extra leeway in a lot of matters, like I've already detailed.  GRANTED this attitude is not gender specific, but I *have* noticed a certain overcompensation within society that seems to cater towards the "needs" of women. 

At the risk of being strangled by my fellow ladies, ( :wink:) I have also noticed some truth in what Looner is saying. I don't think women INTEND or plot to bring men down, but sometimes that is how it appears in their rabid efforts to "right past wrongs." 

Maybe one day we can all meet in the middle.


Edited by EllemyshShade (12/17/04 03:29 PM)


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OfflinePhluck
Carpal Tunnel
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Registered: 04/10/99
Posts: 11,394
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 3 months, 5 days
Re: women and art [Re: looner2]
    #3514269 - 12/17/04 03:31 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I think you're mistaken. From what I've heard they live in societies of about an equal ratio of males to females.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story
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Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
Re: women and art [Re: looner2]
    #3514294 - 12/17/04 03:42 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

"these ads are targetted towards an audience and usually reflect the current culture."

Ha ha, America's Funniest Videos, Dad gets whacked in the nuts by the kid hitting the baseball. Now that's good family humor! Of course, Dad has to laugh along while watching it even as he cringes from the thought of just how much that would hurt if it were HIS nuts.

How about the commercial where the stupid Dad thinks that if he gets his daughter's cell phones with unlimited family use, that the daughters will actually call him to say Hi? What a nutcase HE is. Mom and the daughters share some togetherness as the camera fades out....


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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InvisibleMoonshoe
Blue Mantis
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Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
Re: women and art [Re: adrug]
    #3514376 - 12/17/04 04:05 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

"Ok...make me a list of all the famous male artists you can think of...

Now list all the famous women artists.

I'm interested to see how disproportionate this list is. "

maybe the problem is i dont know what prolific means. im sure male artists get more recognition, but i dont think they actually do more art or are more involved in art than women.

actually as pointed out they probably dont do as much art because many cultures still restrict that, but i thought you were speaking from a psychological or genetic perspective, and in that sense i think both sexes are equally inclined to artistic expression. if anything id say MAYBE women are more so...


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


Edited by Moonshoe (12/17/04 06:04 PM)


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Invisiblevivid
Stranger
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Registered: 12/14/99
Posts: 1,888
Loc: Berkeley, California
Re: women and art [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3514390 - 12/17/04 04:13 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Women were discouraged from being anything other than baby factories in the past. I dont see that anymore today at all.. but thats why there werent so many famous artists in the past.
I know alot more women that are deeply interrested in art than men. I think either sex is equal in potential for artistic expression.. but it comes down to an individual. And art is all about personal relation, so i might look at some womanly art and be like "i dont relate to that, its crap" and it might be very to significant to a woman (for specific art pieces). Its about personal taste and ability, not personal gender.


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InvisibleZero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
Loc: Passing Cloud
Re: women and art [Re: Faaip_De_Oiad]
    #3515089 - 12/17/04 08:27 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Maybe art is for men, like babies are to women  :grin:

or something like that, lol


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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
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Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
Re: women and art [Re: Zero7a1]
    #3515097 - 12/17/04 08:29 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

art is for spirit
same for men and women
our shells rattle differently
but our spirits merge in art.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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InvisibleMoonshoe
Blue Mantis
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Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
Re: women and art [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3515114 - 12/17/04 08:38 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

well said


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
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Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: women and art [Re: Faaip_De_Oiad]
    #3515223 - 12/17/04 09:24 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I was just thinking: it might have to do with the fact that women are generally more communicative than men. I don't know many female musicians, but I've met lots of girls who write poetry. There have also been many great female authors. Guys aren't so good with words, so they use music or visual art to express themselves.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineTodcasil
rogue DMT elf
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Registered: 08/08/99
Posts: 16,381
Loc: Crawling on the floor...
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
Re: women and art [Re: silversoul7]
    #3515789 - 12/18/04 12:05 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

define art....

i see that many women are artists, though they may not paint picture or compose song/music.  there is an "art" to living whichever way you choose....  just getting up and commensing your daily rote is an art.  examina any human life and it is an exercise in art...

i know more female "artists" (visual artists) than male hands down. 

"Many women behave as though they have a chip on their shoulder, as though they are "owed" something simply on virtue of being a woman. Some women (not all of course, just making a point) are rabid men abusers, not just physically, but emotionally as well. Most of my female friends will REFUSE to compromise in a relationship, leaving that burden to the male. I have seen this with domestic issues, such as female to male abuse being tolerated, while male to female abuse carrying much harsher penalties. "

this quote find disturbing, yet very true about the bulk of female society nowadays.  :frown: <sad face like a clown.


--------------------
Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect
GODDESSES
Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud
GODS.


~Casil



:cactus:


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InvisibleZero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
Loc: Passing Cloud
Re: women and art [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3515970 - 12/18/04 12:56 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

all abstractions form into art

men women the birds and the bees


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Anonymous

Re: women and art [Re: Todcasil]
    #3516462 - 12/18/04 06:45 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I think you're right. Many women use life as their canvas, much more so than men. They're generally more creative in the art of living.

I also see art as the expression of one's emotions. Men generally use the traditional arts as an output of their emotions, while women express their emotions more openly through life itself.


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: women and art [Re: looner2]
    #3519564 - 12/19/04 03:17 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

looner2 said:
Well... it's obvious that looner2 lives in a really cool place where there isn't this unspoken understanding that women should be treated as less than equal to men. The Yin to the Pleasantville Yang?

Never did I say that women should be treated less then men. Can you point out where I did?




I never once implied that you did say such a thing.
I know it's compound sentence, but re-read what you just quoted me.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineMushmonkey
shiftlesslayabout
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Registered: 09/25/03
Posts: 10,867
Last seen: 3 months, 11 days
Re: women and art [Re: silversoul7]
    #3520458 - 12/19/04 12:56 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
I was just thinking: it might have to do with the fact that women are generally more communicative than men. I don't know many female musicians, but I've met lots of girls who write poetry. There have also been many great female authors. Guys aren't so good with words, so they use music or visual art to express themselves.




I was hoping no one would mention that :|

all the books I own, zero of them are written by women. I'll go double-check right quick but I'm almost positive..
not a one.

i think i've actually read, in its entirety, maybe two books written by women. I've started a great deal, but always stop. I worked in a book store for a year -- I had plenty of opportunity to try and find a female author of acceptable quality.

It's not even a position I like all that much, but I can't argue with what I've seen. There may be a few authors or books that escaped my eyes, and I hope that's true.

Most books written by women seem to really be the same book over and over. There's talking, there's crying, there's probably some male antagonist keeping the female protagonist from what she wants or what she wants to do. 'scuse me while I yawn.. not my cup of tea.
And the one sort of book that is predominantly written by women? Romance? I can't say I've read any of those, but I can't say I really think I'm missing anything and I sort of have a suspicion they may be mighty similar to my above outlined Woman's Book.

Be damned if I could give you a reason why. Sure, maybe there'd be more classic books written by women if they had been encouraged Back Then or some bs like that.. I'll buy that. Quality and quantity are independant, though.. and what they have written? I wouldn't go ahead and label it 'quality'.


--------------------
i finally got around to making a sig
revel in its glory and quake in fear at its might
grar.


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: women and art [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #3522643 - 12/19/04 10:36 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

The only women on my bookshelf are Pema Chodron, Ayn Rand, and Sylvia Plath.

And, no, I'm not counting all my trashy romance novels.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflinePhluck
Carpal Tunnel
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Registered: 04/10/99
Posts: 11,394
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 3 months, 5 days
Re: women and art [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #3522675 - 12/19/04 10:47 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

The Edible Woman by Margaret Atwood is great.

There seem to be quite a few highly respected female authors... maybe you're not reading the right things.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: women and art [Re: Phluck]
    #3523092 - 12/20/04 12:59 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Oops... add Margaret Atwood to my list... I have a copy of her Oryx and Crake... hehehe


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineMushmonkey
shiftlesslayabout
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Registered: 09/25/03
Posts: 10,867
Last seen: 3 months, 11 days
Re: women and art [Re: Sclorch]
    #3523262 - 12/20/04 01:57 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Read, did not enjoy :wink:
Like I said..  worked in a bookstore.
And across the street, literally across the street, was a bookstore 4-5 times the size of the one I worked in..  and they were owned by the same company, so prices were the same. 
Basically what I'm sayin is..  I had a lot of free time.

I did forget Frankenstein.  Mary Shelley.  That's a good one.


--------------------
i finally got around to making a sig
revel in its glory and quake in fear at its might
grar.


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