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looner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
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Re: women and art [Re: vampirism]
#3514096 - 12/17/04 02:46 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Wrong. How do you account for matriarchal societies? Or those where men are treated as nothing but sperm producers, and do not even live with the family?
In the very few, none of which I know...(point me out to one), societies in which this occurs, it is obvious the culture has overwritten the biological drive that occurs in nature.
Watch animals, watch nature... the male lion protects and leads his pack. Baboons that lead their tribe are overloaded with testosterone. Being the alphamale causes an actual physiological response. His testosterone levels are extremely high, his shoulders broaden, and he turns completely grey. This empowers him to mate with all the females, and fight off challenges from other males. If a baboon loses a fight for the alpha position, his testosterone levels drop, he walks with a slump, while the victor's testosterone levels soar and he goes on and humps the hottest baboon babe in sight!
-------------------- I am in love with Acidic_Sloth
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adrug

Registered: 02/04/03
Posts: 15,800
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Re: women and art [Re: looner2]
#3514097 - 12/17/04 02:48 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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You're out of your mind! Most women I know are not focused on being better than men, that's just ridiculousness. And I also don't see how exactly we are bringing men down by asking for equal pay, etc. I'd like you to explain that to me.
Does it hurt your fragile male egos thinking that a woman can be just as successful as you?
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Fucknuckle
Dog Lover

Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 6,762
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ART OF A WOMAN..................... www.ayla-z.com
-------------------- What it is, is what it is my Brother. It is as it is, so suffer thru it.
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vampirism
Stranger


Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 8,120
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Re: women and art [Re: looner2]
#3514109 - 12/17/04 02:52 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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I was reading about them. I can't recollect the names ATM. I know one group was in.. the northeast (?) of india, one was in the southeast of china, and theres a few in africa, not to mention others. If you remind me in a week ( ill be able to look them up then ), I'll find their names.
Quote:
Watch animals, watch nature... the male lion protects and leads his pack
Animals have no choice. Does that mean we should base our society on what we see lions doing?
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looner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
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Re: women and art [Re: adrug]
#3514119 - 12/17/04 02:53 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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You're out of your mind! Most women I know are not focused on being better than men, that's just ridiculousness.
First off, I took the "being better" part from ellenmyshade, she is the one that said it first... read:
For many women, it's not about being equal to the male anymore...it's about being better. In my opinion, that's a faulty mindset.
And I also don't see how exactly we are bringing men down by asking for equal pay, etc. I'd like you to explain that to me.
I never mentioned equal pay. But now that you did, i'd like to point out that their are no laws that say a women has to be paid less. What then is holding you back?
Does it hurt your fragile male egos thinking that a woman can be just as successful as you?
Personnal attack, I want this person banned.
-------------------- I am in love with Acidic_Sloth
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adrug

Registered: 02/04/03
Posts: 15,800
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Re: women and art [Re: looner2]
#3514127 - 12/17/04 02:55 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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I'm personally attacking all men.
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looner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
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Re: women and art [Re: vampirism]
#3514133 - 12/17/04 02:56 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Animals have no choice. Does that mean we should base our society on what we see lions doing?
I don't understand. I said that by nature men lead, and you claimed I was wrong. I then showed evidence that proved they do.
Never did I mention basing society on what lions are doing.
-------------------- I am in love with Acidic_Sloth
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Sclorch
Clyster


Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
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Re: women and art [Re: adrug]
#3514150 - 12/17/04 03:00 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Well... it's obvious that looner2 lives in a really cool place where there isn't this unspoken understanding that women should be treated as less than equal to men. The Yin to the Pleasantville Yang?
-------------------- Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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vampirism
Stranger


Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 8,120
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Re: women and art [Re: looner2]
#3514157 - 12/17/04 03:01 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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but the thing is that humans don't have much instinct anymore. I mean, men have been superior primarily because all current men are loosely connected to the violent men of warlords who spread their seed around. They were superior because they could beat their woman and plow the farm at once.
But now, physical labour and survival are not that strong. I agree- there are no laws that say women have to be payed less. It's our society's perception that's being unfair, and thus they get paid less. It's all just our current cultural belief- which will change with time anyway. Why not choose a direction of balance?
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adrug

Registered: 02/04/03
Posts: 15,800
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Re: women and art [Re: Sclorch]
#3514159 - 12/17/04 03:01 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Are there any vacancies?
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Phluck
Carpal Tunnel


Registered: 04/10/99
Posts: 11,394
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 3 months, 5 days
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Re: women and art [Re: looner2]
#3514163 - 12/17/04 03:03 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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I think art may have sexual origins. There are quite a few species where you can see elements of this, I can't remember the name of the birds, but there are a few that build elaborate sculptures to attract mates. There are also examples like the peacock, who don't actively create, but do attract mates with brilliant colours.
Also, if you look at which men are the most sought after, it's often not the biggest, bulkiest men, it's the most creative. Chicks dig rock stars and artists.
Until we began to intellectualize things, and attach new meaning to our creativity, women had less incentive to create art. Now that we view art as a facet of self expression, or therapeutic, etc... women have a reason to persue art. The fact that women haven't been encouraged to pursue art as much as men is certainly a factor as well, but I think that the sexual thing may have a lot to do with the origins of art. You can also see that there are more men who want to pursue things like music for the image more than an actual desire to be musicians. How many guys do you know that bought a guitar with dreams of starting a band but never really have much interest in playing?
The assertion that women have reached an equal level in society simply because they are legally equal is silly. There are all kinds of other factors that offset the balance.
This certainly applies less now that I'm older, but when I was 14, if I'd had any CDs in my music collection by women artists, I'd probably be sneered at or called a fag. It's pretty hard to deny that there aren't a lot of people who have negative attitudes towards women, or give them less credit than they deserve, and that this has an effect on how their treated.
How many ugly male musicians do you know of? And how many ugly women? It's pretty disproportionate, and fairly obvious that women are judged by their looks more than by their talent.
-------------------- "I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson http://phluck.is-after.us
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looner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
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Re: women and art [Re: Sclorch]
#3514170 - 12/17/04 03:03 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Well... it's obvious that looner2 lives in a really cool place where there isn't this unspoken understanding that women should be treated as less than equal to men. The Yin to the Pleasantville Yang?
Never did I say that women should be treated less then men. Can you point out where I did?
-------------------- I am in love with Acidic_Sloth
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Phluck
Carpal Tunnel


Registered: 04/10/99
Posts: 11,394
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 3 months, 5 days
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Re: women and art [Re: looner2]
#3514172 - 12/17/04 03:04 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Watch animals, watch nature... the male lion protects and leads his pack. Baboons that lead their tribe are overloaded with testosterone. Being the alphamale causes an actual physiological response.
Those are just a few examples. Study your biology a little more and you'll see that the sexual roles are all over the map, depending on the species.
-------------------- "I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson http://phluck.is-after.us
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looner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
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Re: women and art [Re: vampirism]
#3514178 - 12/17/04 03:06 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
but the thing is that humans don't have much instinct anymore.
What? Did it magically vanish from our biology? Just go out in a social situation and watch male/female behavior. Among the males you'll have the alpha male, and I bet 8/10 times he'll be going home with the hottest chick.
-------------------- I am in love with Acidic_Sloth
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silversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!


Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
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I don't really buy the argument that it's because women are oppressed. Not that I don't think women have been oppressed, but rather if you look at history, there has been plenty of prolific art coming from oppressed classes. Just look at Jazz or the Blues, two well-known and often popular forms of music coming from black people at a time when they were heavily oppressed.
--------------------
  "It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
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looner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
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Re: women and art [Re: Phluck]
#3514195 - 12/17/04 03:09 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Those are just a few examples. Study your biology a little more and you'll see that the sexual roles are all over the map, depending on the species.
How about you show me the way? My examples were sound and extremely prevelent in advanced mammalian hierachies.
-------------------- I am in love with Acidic_Sloth
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Phluck
Carpal Tunnel


Registered: 04/10/99
Posts: 11,394
Loc: Canada
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Re: women and art [Re: looner2]
#3514198 - 12/17/04 03:10 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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I certainly don't think that our instincts have vanished at all, and it's foolish to think so.
But I don't think our social structure is identical to the baboon's alpha male type of deal. Being the biggest and strongest no longer means you're the most powerful. There are lots of big, strong idiots who end up poor and in shitty situations because they're idiots. This applies to some extent in high school, but in our actual society, it's a bit different.
-------------------- "I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson http://phluck.is-after.us
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looner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
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Re: women and art [Re: Phluck]
#3514207 - 12/17/04 03:13 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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But I don't think our social structure is identical to the baboon's alpha male type of deal. Being the biggest and strongest no longer means you're the most powerful. There are lots of big, strong idiots who end up poor and in shitty situations because they're idiots. This applies to some extent in high school, but in our actual society, it's a bit different.
I really didn't say anything about being the biggest and strongest, they were more of the effects of high testosterone, which the alpha males possess.
In human social situations, you can be an alpha male and be physicall weak.
-------------------- I am in love with Acidic_Sloth
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Phluck
Carpal Tunnel


Registered: 04/10/99
Posts: 11,394
Loc: Canada
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Re: women and art [Re: looner2]
#3514222 - 12/17/04 03:15 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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How do you define which species are more "advanced"? There are lots of species that are small, but extremely widespread and durable.
Elephant societies are matriarchal, to name one, and I'm sure they fit into your definition of advanced.
-------------------- "I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson http://phluck.is-after.us
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looner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
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Re: women and art [Re: Phluck]
#3514249 - 12/17/04 03:24 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Elephants are matriarchal, but if i'm not mistaken, the women leads a pack of other females and the calves, the males don't belong.
-------------------- I am in love with Acidic_Sloth
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