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Invisibleraytrace
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Registered: 01/15/02
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Who is the Artist?
    #5237480 - 01/29/06 02:41 AM (18 years, 3 days ago)

the creator or the viewer?


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InvisibleRESTLESS
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Re: Who is the Artist? [Re: raytrace]
    #5237483 - 01/29/06 02:42 AM (18 years, 3 days ago)

:google:


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Invisibleraytrace
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Re: Who is the Artist? [Re: RESTLESS]
    #5237596 - 01/29/06 04:19 AM (18 years, 3 days ago)

:noway:


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Who is the Artist? [Re: raytrace]
    #5237598 - 01/29/06 04:22 AM (18 years, 3 days ago)

The creator. But with art, often the burden of creativity is left upon the viewer...

In either case, it is the creator.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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Invisibleraytrace
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Re: Who is the Artist? [Re: Rose]
    #5237607 - 01/29/06 04:42 AM (18 years, 3 days ago)

- when is it that viewing becomes not a creative act?

and similarly

- when is it that creating becomes more than a viewing art?


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Who is the Artist? [Re: raytrace]
    #5237613 - 01/29/06 04:56 AM (18 years, 3 days ago)

Q When is it that viewing becomes not a creative act?

A Until it is interupted by thought, viewing is not creative at all, it is simply sight.

Q When is it that creating becomes more than a viewing art?

A When it is an expressive or physical... rather than visual art.... for starters... another example... sex = babies

Q Who is the aristt?

A in the form of a Q God?


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Who is the Artist? [Re: raytrace]
    #5237627 - 01/29/06 05:14 AM (18 years, 3 days ago)

While viewing, many creative thoughts will build up, which will help you createing.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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Invisibleraytrace
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Re: Who is the Artist? [Re: Rose]
    #5237633 - 01/29/06 05:31 AM (18 years, 3 days ago)

I?m not heavily into arguing definitions, so lets say that ?viewing? is not mere sight but implies an inherent recognition of conceptual entities.

The distribution of entities inside the field of sight as well as the relations between them is in itself a creative act (as long as these are not inherited by a previous viewer).

Therefore I would venture to say that a personal (not shared with others) view of anything is creative.

On the other hand, my contention is that any physical act deprived of a ?viewer? is not creative as it is mere ?sight?.

Does anything I?ve said so far make sense?


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Invisibleraytrace
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Re: Who is the Artist? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #5237637 - 01/29/06 05:41 AM (18 years, 3 days ago)

so what exactly is a creative thought?


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Who is the Artist? [Re: raytrace]
    #5237639 - 01/29/06 05:44 AM (18 years, 3 days ago)

Does anything I?ve said so far make sense?
absolutely !

Pure 'seeing' might not even include 'recognition' itself :smile:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Who is the Artist? [Re: raytrace]
    #5237640 - 01/29/06 05:50 AM (18 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

raytrace said:
so what exactly is a creative thought?



As far as we get beyond 'pure seeing', the first step of viewing is to build patterns. That maybe might be the beginning of recognition. The visual field is almost completely plastered with visual concepts, shown as patterns. That is for building up attention, which includes a filtering process. These patterns get to fit into (subjective) concepts, who were associated allover the mind itself in own patternareas and concept-areas.
If the patterns resonate, then full recognition has happened.

It is embedded in the context of the intent of attention, which builds up subjectively inside or around the mind or ego, what leads to the creativity of thought...


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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OfflineGrav
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Re: Who is the Artist? [Re: raytrace]
    #5237682 - 01/29/06 07:05 AM (18 years, 3 days ago)

definately a viewer

light and sound were here first.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Who is the Artist? [Re: raytrace]
    #5237753 - 01/29/06 08:10 AM (18 years, 3 days ago)

By a process that is
infused with inspiration
& applied to unearth a relationship
that was already there
the artist becomes the representative,
the assistant or agent of
something fundamental, through which the art emerges.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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OfflineGomp
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Who, as the Artist!? [Re: raytrace]
    #5237875 - 01/29/06 09:08 AM (18 years, 3 days ago)

are you the one telling and/or the one being told?

-and-

...

:sunny::thumbup:


--------------------


--------------------
Disclaimer!?


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Invisibleit stars saddam
Satan

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Re: Who is the Artist? [Re: raytrace]
    #5237883 - 01/29/06 09:10 AM (18 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

raytrace said:
- when is it that viewing becomes not a creative act?




:thumbup:


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InvisibleLakefingers

Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 6,440
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Re: Who is the Artist? [Re: it stars saddam]
    #5239240 - 01/29/06 05:07 PM (18 years, 2 days ago)

The creator is the viewer.


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Who is the Artist? [Re: Lakefingers]
    #5239373 - 01/29/06 05:49 PM (18 years, 2 days ago)

Sight is not the only sense.

A perfume maker creates scents.

Often an observer lacks creativity.

Imagination is different than vision.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Who is the Artist? [Re: Rose]
    #5239584 - 01/29/06 06:39 PM (18 years, 2 days ago)

1. Must the experience of art be a conscious activity?
Maybe art could have an effect on someone without them consciously experiencing it.

2. Can art be made without intention?
The viewer could perhaps stumble upon something someone made and designate it as art.

3. To be considered art, must it be made by a conscious entity?
Perhaps one could look at a waterfall and experience art.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Who is the Artist? [Re: Sclorch]
    #5239713 - 01/29/06 07:07 PM (18 years, 2 days ago)

Artistic = Creativity = Imagination


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



Edited by Rose (01/31/06 03:23 AM)


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OfflineMimeyNaomi
shabbat shalommotherfuckers

Registered: 01/15/06
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Re: Who is the Artist? [Re: Rose]
    #5239824 - 01/29/06 07:36 PM (18 years, 2 days ago)

This reminds me of overhearing a bunch of high school freshmen in an art survey class arguing over whether or not the famous Dada work "The Fountain" is art [it's a urinal on its back]. A small group of kids were adamant that it wasn't art, everyone else said it was. Mostly it was just stupid and funny, listening to freshmen argue, but what I realized is that to those for whom it isn't art, it just isn't; and to those for whom it is, it just is; so the urinal itself doesn't matter in the end.

Conclusion: viewer


--------------------
Check thiz out

..........because I misplaced my umbrella


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OfflineTameMe
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Re: Who is the Artist? [Re: Rose]
    #5239843 - 01/29/06 07:44 PM (18 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:
Q When is it that viewing becomes not a creative act?

A Until it is interupted by thought, viewing is not creative at all, it is simply sight.

Q When is it that creating becomes more than a viewing art?

A When it is an expressive or physical... rather than visual art.... for starters... another example... sex = babies

Q Who is the aristt?

A in the form of a Q God?




so it's not art that the human body can view with out thought?

meaning existence alone imo is a form of art


Edited by TameMe (01/29/06 07:44 PM)


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Who is the Artist? [Re: MimeyNaomi]
    #5239847 - 01/29/06 07:44 PM (18 years, 2 days ago)

Yes, indeed the viewer gets to come to a conclusion... but also the creator as well.

If the artist thinks it is art, but the viewer doesn't... what's that make it? Art.

Sometimes, the viewer is simply wrong.

If something is imagined, created and then experienced... it is at least, in part, a work of art... by definition.

It is what it is.

The viewer's opinion is irrelevant.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Who is the Artist? [Re: TameMe]
    #5239860 - 01/29/06 07:52 PM (18 years, 2 days ago)

Art is simply expression of creative thought.

The observer, if he or she wishes to partake in said art, must observe (or otherwise experience) the art... and put some thought into it.

Otherwise they will simply fail to recognise the art AS art.

But, the art they may or may not recognize... is still art... as long as it is an expression of creative thought.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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Invisibleit stars saddam
Satan

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Re: Who is the Artist? [Re: Rose]
    #5239907 - 01/29/06 08:05 PM (18 years, 2 days ago)

*semantics argument


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Who is the Artist? [Re: raytrace]
    #5240079 - 01/29/06 08:41 PM (18 years, 2 days ago)

I would say the creator is the artist. Without the creator, there would be no chance for a viewer to exist.


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Who is the Artist? [Re: Redstorm]
    #5240189 - 01/29/06 08:59 PM (18 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
I would say the creator is the artist. Without the creator, there would be no chance for a viewer to exist.



Quote:

Sclorch said:
3. To be considered art, must it be made by a conscious entity?
Perhaps one could look at a waterfall and experience art.




--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Who is the Artist? [Re: Sclorch]
    #5240254 - 01/29/06 09:19 PM (18 years, 2 days ago)

Fair enough.

One could argue that there was a creator to that waterfall, though. I don't subscribe to that sort of belief, but I know others do.


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Invisibleit stars saddam
Satan

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Re: Who is the Artist? [Re: Sclorch]
    #5240258 - 01/29/06 09:20 PM (18 years, 2 days ago)

"Allen Ginsberg and Lucien Carr asked William S. Burroughs to settle an argument -- an intellectual argument -- they'd been having for weeks: Did art need an audience in order to be art? Or would it still be art just the same, if it was done only for one's own satisfaction, with no one else ever viewing it? Eagerly they awaited his opinion, wondering which side he would take.

'That's the stupidest question I ever heard of,' Burroughs informed them. 'It depends on how you want to define the word 'art'. Words don't have a built in definition.'"


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: Who is the Artist? [Re: Sclorch]
    #5240515 - 01/29/06 10:45 PM (18 years, 2 days ago)

2. Can art be made without intention?

I don't know, it reminds of one of my favorite questions,
"What was the artist's intention?". I don't even remember where I heard it, though I think it was a PBS show with a nun as a narrator and guide.

"What was the artist's intention?" was going to be my reply to raytrace's post till I read your's.


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Who is the Artist? [Re: raytrace]
    #5240662 - 01/29/06 11:34 PM (18 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

raytrace said:

Therefore I would venture to say that a personal view of anything is creative.






I would only change one word...

I'd say a personal PERCEPTION of anything is creative.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



Edited by Rose (01/29/06 11:50 PM)


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InvisibleLakefingers

Registered: 08/26/05
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Re: Who is the Artist? [Re: Rose]
    #5241087 - 01/30/06 03:11 AM (18 years, 2 days ago)

And upon viewing the creation the creator -- projecting herself onto the Viewed, thereby making herself Creator -- farted, belched and scratched her crotch.


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OfflineTameMe
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Re: Who is the Artist? [Re: Rose]
    #5241539 - 01/30/06 09:21 AM (18 years, 2 days ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:
Art is simply expression of creative thought.

The observer, if he or she wishes to partake in said art, must observe (or otherwise experience) the art... and put some thought into it.

Otherwise they will simply fail to recognise the art AS art.

But, the art they may or may not recognize... is still art... as long as it is an expression of creative thought.




when i see bird flying and the wind blowing all at the same time while i'm breathing and perceiving....i see art.

why do i have to see it in order for it to be it?

this is like matter isn't matter unless something knows it's matter.


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Who is the Artist? [Re: TameMe]
    #5244731 - 01/30/06 11:12 PM (18 years, 1 day ago)

You misread me, I agree compley...

I am simply adding that YOU won't RECOGNIZE something AS ART... without putting some THOUGHT into it.

Doesn't change the fact that art is art.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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OfflineTameMe
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Re: Who is the Artist? [Re: Rose]
    #5245150 - 01/31/06 01:35 AM (18 years, 1 day ago)

oh ok...sorry bout that.


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Who is the Artist? [Re: TameMe]
    #5245320 - 01/31/06 02:43 AM (18 years, 1 day ago)

Another point worth making... Read carefully. :tongue:

Creative thought is different than logical thought, or other simpler more reflexive sorts of thought. But creative thought is not art... it is only artistic. To become art, it must be expressed or otherwise shared with others.

As a viewer, you may ENDOW certain things, objects... ideas with an artisctc property. Just by thinking creatively about those objects... you now have an artistic thought, about your subject... but it is not yet art.

You must do more than imagine a face in the clouds, again this is merely artistic thought, not art.

This rule works... God or no god.

If YOU simply recognize, or acknowledge something as art... weather it actually was art or not, before you gave it your personal attention; yes, the very creative idea will, in a way, become a work of art, at least for as long as the idea remains in your mind. But, as soon as you die, the artistic thought dies with you. And nobody will be able to confirm the thought's prior existance.

For art to live longer than the person who had the idea, and for the art to be confirmed into existance, the art must be shared. Therefore the thought itself is not art, it is simply artistic.

Got that?

ARTISTS express their creative ideas... non-artists keep them to themselves.

Until a creative thought is expressed, it is not art, it is merely artistic. Communication is an extremely creative outlet... it is always artistic... but not always art.

Here's how the creative thought of faces in the clouds can move from being artistic, to being art.

You could paint a cloud that looks like a face... write a play about daydreaming on an overcast day... write a song about, uh, little fluffy clouds, do a rain dance to the people in the clouds... all artistic EXPRESSION inspired by clouds. Artistic expression is ART, and it is a step beyond simple daydreaming... you must, at the very least, tell a friend what you see in the clouds... before that cloud becomes ART.

That, or prove the existance of God. :smirk:


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



Edited by Rose (01/31/06 03:36 AM)


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Offlineswampthing
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Re: Who is the Artist? [Re: raytrace]
    #5246311 - 01/31/06 10:48 AM (18 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

raytrace said:
:noway:



lol... that face looking around, aww so cute. reminds me of muh meep avatar

check this creativity video.. havent seen it but why not?
the other they have at the site are sorta neat...
Craetivity (the third one down)


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peace with everystep


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Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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