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Faaip_De_Oiad
as above, so below


Registered: 05/29/01
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women and art
#3512042 - 12/17/04 12:51 AM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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One of my friends pointed out that women seem to be less prolific than men when it comes to the arts, she asked me why I thought this was, so I got to thinking.
We as humans tend to try to emulate god in a lot of ways, mainly, creating. Women have the greater part in the creation of human life, and so I think that they don't feel the need to create through art as strongly as men do.
my other friend thought they were just lazy.
any thoughts?
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silversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!


Registered: 10/10/02
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Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
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I agree with you to a certain extent. I think it might also have to do with emotions. Guys aren't as open about expressing their emotions as girls are, so the arts act as a way of expressing themselves.
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  "It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
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Sclorch
Clyster


Registered: 07/12/99
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Loc: On the Brink of Madness
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Women are still an oppressed class.
They will catch up in a few generations as soon as the oppressor memes are rendered useless and are buried in their meat sacs.
-------------------- Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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Gustavius
Stranger
Registered: 12/12/04
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Re: women and art [Re: Sclorch]
#3512142 - 12/17/04 01:37 AM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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i think all of you miss the boat oin this one. women get to express the ul;timate creativity in giving birth and that is suffieicnt.men ken never do this so must attemt in other ways.
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vampirism
Stranger


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Re: women and art [Re: Gustavius]
#3512558 - 12/17/04 07:20 AM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Ehm, childbirth isn't artistic expression.
and I have to agree with sclorch- in my experience they are no less willing to go into art.
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adrug

Registered: 02/04/03
Posts: 15,800
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Re: women and art [Re: Sclorch]
#3512644 - 12/17/04 07:57 AM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Sclorch said: Women are still an oppressed class.
They will catch up in a few generations as soon as the oppressor memes are rendered useless and are buried in their meat sacs.
Exactly. Women were not encouraged to do such things in the past and the ones who did were sometimes even ridiculed. The fine art world has always been dominated by men. Thankfully things have changed somewhat, although the number of well-known women artists is dwarfed by the number of famous male artists.
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frogger25
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Re: women and art [Re: adrug]
#3512913 - 12/17/04 09:35 AM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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i dont think that women are less prolific in art, maybe in the past do to opression and the view that awomens place is that of a homemaker. from my perspective as a college student i see women a lot more invlved in art then men are for example this semster i took an art history class and it was dissproportionatly filled with women. but on the biological side i think it may have to do with the way men and womens brain's differ. arent men suposed to be more spacially inclined, eg better at forming a mental map, while women's brains are more focused on verbal aspects. i guess you may be able to apply this t art being that mens brains may be better at forming a mental imag of say a sculture they want to create while women might be more inclined to express themselves verbally such as in a poem, song, or other from of writing. i think this also has to do with the domince of specific hemisphres of the brain but i forget which is which. i dont know this might no9t even be applicable at all in real life.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Re: women and art [Re: frogger25]
#3513096 - 12/17/04 10:25 AM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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true any art class i ever went to (i.e. after being married for several years) was full of women, many eligeable at a time when I wasn't. still ---{what does that have to do with this}
my productivity on canvas even with a full time job seems manically prolific when compared to the more casual application of most of those classroom attendees ---{token chauvanism}
However - I am aware of several women who paint 2-5 cnavases per week and only one other maniac like myself which cancells everything else I have been going on about. ---{the truth!}
basically very much the same, and marvellously different! vive la difference! ---{huh?}
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis


Registered: 05/28/04
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Loc: Iceland
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i see no indication that women are less prolific in the arts
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Everything I post is fiction.
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adrug

Registered: 02/04/03
Posts: 15,800
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Re: women and art [Re: Moonshoe]
#3513837 - 12/17/04 01:42 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Ok...make me a list of all the famous male artists you can think of...
Now list all the famous women artists.
I'm interested to see how disproportionate this list is.
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looner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
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Re: women and art [Re: Sclorch]
#3513844 - 12/17/04 01:43 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Women are still an oppressed class.
First, who is oppressing them? Second, women belong to a gender, not a class.
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vampirism
Stranger


Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 8,120
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Re: women and art [Re: looner2]
#3513852 - 12/17/04 01:45 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
looner2 said: Women are still an oppressed class. First, who is oppressing them? Second, women belong to a gender, not a class.
1) Western society. There ARE balanced / female-tilted societies 2) Gender influences class/social status in Western society.
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looner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
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Re: women and art [Re: vampirism]
#3513917 - 12/17/04 01:59 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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1.)
No, there are no laws that hinder women in any way. That is what I call balance.
In terms of society, it is now fashionable to oppress men, in an attempt to strengthen women. Turn on the television and what do you see? Mom gets mad at dad? Hits him. Everything is ok, hahaha its FUNNY for that to happen. What if it was the other way around? In any circumstance, even the lightest tap would produce outrage. Why do women get these free pass to instigate violence?
It is also acceptable for women to bash men on a daily basis. Again, watch tv... (I think its a good place to learn how society is changing because these ads are targetted toward an audience and usually reflect the current culture.) You constantly have stupid daddy making a mistake, and the mom fixing it. The male is shown as aloof, out of touch, irrational.
2.)
Women are a gender, not a class/social status, as I said before, regardless of "influence".
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Sclorch
Clyster


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Re: women and art [Re: looner2]
#3513998 - 12/17/04 02:19 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
looner2 said: 1.) No, there are no laws that hinder women in any way. That is what I call balance. In terms of society, it is now fashionable to oppress men, in an attempt to strengthen women. Turn on the television and what do you see? Mom gets mad at dad? Hits him. Everything is ok, hahaha its FUNNY for that to happen. What if it was the other way around? In any circumstance, even the lightest tap would produce outrage. Why do women get these free pass to instigate violence?
It is also acceptable for women to bash men on a daily basis. Again, watch tv... (I think its a good place to learn how society is changing because these ads are targetted toward an audience and usually reflect the current culture.) You constantly have stupid daddy making a mistake, and the mom fixing it. The male is shown as aloof, out of touch, irrational.
It's allowed because men are still dominant. For the same reason that when Chris Rock makes wisecracks about white people it's funny... but it's racist if a white person were to make wisecracks about black people.
Quote:
2.)Women are a gender, not a class/social status, as I said before, regardless of "influence".
I don't think my use of the word class was inaccurate. And if we want to get specific, women are adult female humans. Gender applies to the male/female division and does not include maturity (adultness).
I know what you meant. You know what I meant. As a group of people (class), women are still not considered equal to men by the majority of the world (including the good ol' USofA, though it's more of an unspoken understanding). But maybe your town is just a little more utopic than the rest of the world.
-------------------- Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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MOTH
Wild Woman


Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 23,431
Loc: In the jungle
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Re: women and art [Re: looner2]
#3514000 - 12/17/04 02:19 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Things ARE out of whack when it comes to balance between men and women.
Looner:
Quote:
In terms of society, it is now fashionable to oppress men, in an attempt to strengthen women.
Sadly, this is true. (from my observations and experiences)
In some areas of the US, women are still "oppressed," or at least not considered equal to their male counterparts. I think this mainly has to do with certain religious traditions.
Overall, women are making great progress and I'm happy about that. But let's be honest, there seems to be some overcompensation going when it comes to women. For many women, it's not about being equal to the male anymore...it's about being better. In my opinion, that's a faulty mindset.
I think we'll see more women becoming prominant figures in our society. Especially in our technological age where the advantage of strength is not such a virtue anymore, women will continue to gain momentum with social/political power.
Whether for good or ill remains to be seen.
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Sclorch
Clyster


Registered: 07/12/99
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Loc: On the Brink of Madness
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Re: women and art [Re: MOTH]
#3514015 - 12/17/04 02:25 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
In some areas of the US, women are still "oppressed," or at least not considered equal to their male counterparts. I think this mainly has to do with certain religious traditions.
What's really fun is getting shit from women for knocking religion because of it's behavioral effects...
-------------------- Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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adrug

Registered: 02/04/03
Posts: 15,800
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Re: women and art [Re: MOTH]
#3514039 - 12/17/04 02:33 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Great reply, Elle.
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looner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
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Re: women and art [Re: Sclorch]
#3514045 - 12/17/04 02:34 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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It's allowed because men are still dominant.
First, what do you mean by dominant? Men by nature assert dominance, the kind of dominance that is rooted in hormones and physiology.
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vampirism
Stranger


Registered: 03/14/04
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Re: women and art [Re: looner2]
#3514058 - 12/17/04 02:38 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Men by nature assert dominance, the kind of dominance that is rooted in hormones and physiology.
Wrong. How do you account for matriarchal societies? Or those where men are treated as nothing but sperm producers, and do not even live with the family?
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looner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
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Re: women and art [Re: MOTH]
#3514063 - 12/17/04 02:38 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Overall, women are making great progress and I'm happy about that. But let's be honest, there seems to be some overcompensation going when it comes to women. For many women, it's not about being equal to the male anymore...it's about being better. In my opinion, that's a faulty mindset.
It is not so much about women wanting to be better. In their attempt to equalize/surpass men they do not try to bring themselves up, but instead bring men down. What a poor and desperate way to show your self worth. On top of that, it has a very polarizing consequence.
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looner2
ABBA fan

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Posts: 3,849
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Re: women and art [Re: vampirism]
#3514096 - 12/17/04 02:46 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Wrong. How do you account for matriarchal societies? Or those where men are treated as nothing but sperm producers, and do not even live with the family?
In the very few, none of which I know...(point me out to one), societies in which this occurs, it is obvious the culture has overwritten the biological drive that occurs in nature.
Watch animals, watch nature... the male lion protects and leads his pack. Baboons that lead their tribe are overloaded with testosterone. Being the alphamale causes an actual physiological response. His testosterone levels are extremely high, his shoulders broaden, and he turns completely grey. This empowers him to mate with all the females, and fight off challenges from other males. If a baboon loses a fight for the alpha position, his testosterone levels drop, he walks with a slump, while the victor's testosterone levels soar and he goes on and humps the hottest baboon babe in sight!
-------------------- I am in love with Acidic_Sloth
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adrug

Registered: 02/04/03
Posts: 15,800
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Re: women and art [Re: looner2]
#3514097 - 12/17/04 02:48 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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You're out of your mind! Most women I know are not focused on being better than men, that's just ridiculousness. And I also don't see how exactly we are bringing men down by asking for equal pay, etc. I'd like you to explain that to me.
Does it hurt your fragile male egos thinking that a woman can be just as successful as you?
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Fucknuckle
Dog Lover

Registered: 04/24/04
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ART OF A WOMAN..................... www.ayla-z.com
-------------------- What it is, is what it is my Brother. It is as it is, so suffer thru it.
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vampirism
Stranger


Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 8,120
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Re: women and art [Re: looner2]
#3514109 - 12/17/04 02:52 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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I was reading about them. I can't recollect the names ATM. I know one group was in.. the northeast (?) of india, one was in the southeast of china, and theres a few in africa, not to mention others. If you remind me in a week ( ill be able to look them up then ), I'll find their names.
Quote:
Watch animals, watch nature... the male lion protects and leads his pack
Animals have no choice. Does that mean we should base our society on what we see lions doing?
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looner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
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Re: women and art [Re: adrug]
#3514119 - 12/17/04 02:53 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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You're out of your mind! Most women I know are not focused on being better than men, that's just ridiculousness.
First off, I took the "being better" part from ellenmyshade, she is the one that said it first... read:
For many women, it's not about being equal to the male anymore...it's about being better. In my opinion, that's a faulty mindset.
And I also don't see how exactly we are bringing men down by asking for equal pay, etc. I'd like you to explain that to me.
I never mentioned equal pay. But now that you did, i'd like to point out that their are no laws that say a women has to be paid less. What then is holding you back?
Does it hurt your fragile male egos thinking that a woman can be just as successful as you?
Personnal attack, I want this person banned.
-------------------- I am in love with Acidic_Sloth
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adrug

Registered: 02/04/03
Posts: 15,800
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Re: women and art [Re: looner2]
#3514127 - 12/17/04 02:55 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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I'm personally attacking all men.
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looner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
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Re: women and art [Re: vampirism]
#3514133 - 12/17/04 02:56 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Animals have no choice. Does that mean we should base our society on what we see lions doing?
I don't understand. I said that by nature men lead, and you claimed I was wrong. I then showed evidence that proved they do.
Never did I mention basing society on what lions are doing.
-------------------- I am in love with Acidic_Sloth
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Sclorch
Clyster


Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
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Re: women and art [Re: adrug]
#3514150 - 12/17/04 03:00 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Well... it's obvious that looner2 lives in a really cool place where there isn't this unspoken understanding that women should be treated as less than equal to men. The Yin to the Pleasantville Yang?
-------------------- Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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vampirism
Stranger


Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 8,120
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Re: women and art [Re: looner2]
#3514157 - 12/17/04 03:01 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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but the thing is that humans don't have much instinct anymore. I mean, men have been superior primarily because all current men are loosely connected to the violent men of warlords who spread their seed around. They were superior because they could beat their woman and plow the farm at once.
But now, physical labour and survival are not that strong. I agree- there are no laws that say women have to be payed less. It's our society's perception that's being unfair, and thus they get paid less. It's all just our current cultural belief- which will change with time anyway. Why not choose a direction of balance?
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adrug

Registered: 02/04/03
Posts: 15,800
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Re: women and art [Re: Sclorch]
#3514159 - 12/17/04 03:01 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Are there any vacancies?
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Phluck
Carpal Tunnel


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Re: women and art [Re: looner2]
#3514163 - 12/17/04 03:03 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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I think art may have sexual origins. There are quite a few species where you can see elements of this, I can't remember the name of the birds, but there are a few that build elaborate sculptures to attract mates. There are also examples like the peacock, who don't actively create, but do attract mates with brilliant colours.
Also, if you look at which men are the most sought after, it's often not the biggest, bulkiest men, it's the most creative. Chicks dig rock stars and artists.
Until we began to intellectualize things, and attach new meaning to our creativity, women had less incentive to create art. Now that we view art as a facet of self expression, or therapeutic, etc... women have a reason to persue art. The fact that women haven't been encouraged to pursue art as much as men is certainly a factor as well, but I think that the sexual thing may have a lot to do with the origins of art. You can also see that there are more men who want to pursue things like music for the image more than an actual desire to be musicians. How many guys do you know that bought a guitar with dreams of starting a band but never really have much interest in playing?
The assertion that women have reached an equal level in society simply because they are legally equal is silly. There are all kinds of other factors that offset the balance.
This certainly applies less now that I'm older, but when I was 14, if I'd had any CDs in my music collection by women artists, I'd probably be sneered at or called a fag. It's pretty hard to deny that there aren't a lot of people who have negative attitudes towards women, or give them less credit than they deserve, and that this has an effect on how their treated.
How many ugly male musicians do you know of? And how many ugly women? It's pretty disproportionate, and fairly obvious that women are judged by their looks more than by their talent.
-------------------- "I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson http://phluck.is-after.us
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looner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
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Re: women and art [Re: Sclorch]
#3514170 - 12/17/04 03:03 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Well... it's obvious that looner2 lives in a really cool place where there isn't this unspoken understanding that women should be treated as less than equal to men. The Yin to the Pleasantville Yang?
Never did I say that women should be treated less then men. Can you point out where I did?
-------------------- I am in love with Acidic_Sloth
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Phluck
Carpal Tunnel


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Re: women and art [Re: looner2]
#3514172 - 12/17/04 03:04 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Watch animals, watch nature... the male lion protects and leads his pack. Baboons that lead their tribe are overloaded with testosterone. Being the alphamale causes an actual physiological response.
Those are just a few examples. Study your biology a little more and you'll see that the sexual roles are all over the map, depending on the species.
-------------------- "I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson http://phluck.is-after.us
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looner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
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Re: women and art [Re: vampirism]
#3514178 - 12/17/04 03:06 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
but the thing is that humans don't have much instinct anymore.
What? Did it magically vanish from our biology? Just go out in a social situation and watch male/female behavior. Among the males you'll have the alpha male, and I bet 8/10 times he'll be going home with the hottest chick.
-------------------- I am in love with Acidic_Sloth
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silversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!


Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
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I don't really buy the argument that it's because women are oppressed. Not that I don't think women have been oppressed, but rather if you look at history, there has been plenty of prolific art coming from oppressed classes. Just look at Jazz or the Blues, two well-known and often popular forms of music coming from black people at a time when they were heavily oppressed.
--------------------
  "It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
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looner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
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Re: women and art [Re: Phluck]
#3514195 - 12/17/04 03:09 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Those are just a few examples. Study your biology a little more and you'll see that the sexual roles are all over the map, depending on the species.
How about you show me the way? My examples were sound and extremely prevelent in advanced mammalian hierachies.
-------------------- I am in love with Acidic_Sloth
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Phluck
Carpal Tunnel


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Re: women and art [Re: looner2]
#3514198 - 12/17/04 03:10 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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I certainly don't think that our instincts have vanished at all, and it's foolish to think so.
But I don't think our social structure is identical to the baboon's alpha male type of deal. Being the biggest and strongest no longer means you're the most powerful. There are lots of big, strong idiots who end up poor and in shitty situations because they're idiots. This applies to some extent in high school, but in our actual society, it's a bit different.
-------------------- "I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson http://phluck.is-after.us
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looner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
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Re: women and art [Re: Phluck]
#3514207 - 12/17/04 03:13 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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But I don't think our social structure is identical to the baboon's alpha male type of deal. Being the biggest and strongest no longer means you're the most powerful. There are lots of big, strong idiots who end up poor and in shitty situations because they're idiots. This applies to some extent in high school, but in our actual society, it's a bit different.
I really didn't say anything about being the biggest and strongest, they were more of the effects of high testosterone, which the alpha males possess.
In human social situations, you can be an alpha male and be physicall weak.
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Phluck
Carpal Tunnel


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Re: women and art [Re: looner2]
#3514222 - 12/17/04 03:15 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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How do you define which species are more "advanced"? There are lots of species that are small, but extremely widespread and durable.
Elephant societies are matriarchal, to name one, and I'm sure they fit into your definition of advanced.
-------------------- "I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson http://phluck.is-after.us
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looner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
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Re: women and art [Re: Phluck]
#3514249 - 12/17/04 03:24 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Elephants are matriarchal, but if i'm not mistaken, the women leads a pack of other females and the calves, the males don't belong.
-------------------- I am in love with Acidic_Sloth
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MOTH
Wild Woman


Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 23,431
Loc: In the jungle
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Re: women and art [Re: looner2]
#3514260 - 12/17/04 03:28 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
looner2 said: You're out of your mind! Most women I know are not focused on being better than men, that's just ridiculousness. First off, I took the "being better" part from ellenmyshade, she is the one that said it first... read: For many women, it's not about being equal to the male anymore...it's about being better. In my opinion, that's a faulty mindset.
Yes, I said that, but allow me to elaborate. "Better" was perhaps too broad a word to use. Overall, I like being a woman. But I cannot deny that there is something weird going on within my gender in regards to balance. Keep in mind that this is my observation *overall,* as I try to give every person the benefit of a doubt. Many women behave as though they have a chip on their shoulder, as though they are "owed" something simply on virtue of being a woman. Some women (not all of course, just making a point) are rabid men abusers, not just physically, but emotionally as well. Most of my female friends will REFUSE to compromise in a relationship, leaving that burden to the male. I have seen this with domestic issues, such as female to male abuse being tolerated, while male to female abuse carrying much harsher penalties. I have had a personal friend accused as a rapist, and you better believe that hell broke lose upon him...he was instantly painted in a negative light. The accusations were proved to be false later on, but the treatment he recieved was abysmal. It troubles me that we are no longer giving guys the benefit of a doubt when it comes to the issue of rape. We are conditioned to automatically believe the female for some reason. Now, it sort of seems that women get a negative reputation because they handle problems differently then men do. Women use guile to get what they want, and a less direct approach. They are better at using what can be seen as "underhanded" tactics to achieve a goal. I'm not saying this is good or bad, just pointing out that men and women handle issues differently. The one thing that irks me about my fellow females, is the "entitlement attitude" that I consistantly come across in them. I think women feel as though they've been oppressed for many centuries, so they feel like they deserve some extra leeway in a lot of matters, like I've already detailed. GRANTED this attitude is not gender specific, but I *have* noticed a certain overcompensation within society that seems to cater towards the "needs" of women. At the risk of being strangled by my fellow ladies, ( ) I have also noticed some truth in what Looner is saying. I don't think women INTEND or plot to bring men down, but sometimes that is how it appears in their rabid efforts to "right past wrongs." Maybe one day we can all meet in the middle.
Edited by EllemyshShade (12/17/04 03:29 PM)
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Phluck
Carpal Tunnel


Registered: 04/10/99
Posts: 11,394
Loc: Canada
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Re: women and art [Re: looner2]
#3514269 - 12/17/04 03:31 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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I think you're mistaken. From what I've heard they live in societies of about an equal ratio of males to females.
-------------------- "I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson http://phluck.is-after.us
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Re: women and art [Re: looner2]
#3514294 - 12/17/04 03:42 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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"these ads are targetted towards an audience and usually reflect the current culture."
Ha ha, America's Funniest Videos, Dad gets whacked in the nuts by the kid hitting the baseball. Now that's good family humor! Of course, Dad has to laugh along while watching it even as he cringes from the thought of just how much that would hurt if it were HIS nuts.
How about the commercial where the stupid Dad thinks that if he gets his daughter's cell phones with unlimited family use, that the daughters will actually call him to say Hi? What a nutcase HE is. Mom and the daughters share some togetherness as the camera fades out....
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis


Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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Re: women and art [Re: adrug]
#3514376 - 12/17/04 04:05 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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"Ok...make me a list of all the famous male artists you can think of... Now list all the famous women artists. I'm interested to see how disproportionate this list is. " maybe the problem is i dont know what prolific means. im sure male artists get more recognition, but i dont think they actually do more art or are more involved in art than women. actually as pointed out they probably dont do as much art because many cultures still restrict that, but i thought you were speaking from a psychological or genetic perspective, and in that sense i think both sexes are equally inclined to artistic expression. if anything id say MAYBE women are more so...
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Everything I post is fiction.
Edited by Moonshoe (12/17/04 06:04 PM)
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vivid
Stranger


Registered: 12/14/99
Posts: 1,888
Loc: Berkeley, California
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Re: women and art [Re: Moonshoe]
#3514390 - 12/17/04 04:13 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Women were discouraged from being anything other than baby factories in the past. I dont see that anymore today at all.. but thats why there werent so many famous artists in the past. I know alot more women that are deeply interrested in art than men. I think either sex is equal in potential for artistic expression.. but it comes down to an individual. And art is all about personal relation, so i might look at some womanly art and be like "i dont relate to that, its crap" and it might be very to significant to a woman (for specific art pieces). Its about personal taste and ability, not personal gender.
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Zero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
Loc: Passing Cloud
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Maybe art is for men, like babies are to women
or something like that, lol
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,530
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Re: women and art [Re: Zero7a1]
#3515097 - 12/17/04 08:29 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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art is for spirit same for men and women our shells rattle differently but our spirits merge in art.
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis


Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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well said
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Everything I post is fiction.
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silversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!


Registered: 10/10/02
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Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
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I was just thinking: it might have to do with the fact that women are generally more communicative than men. I don't know many female musicians, but I've met lots of girls who write poetry. There have also been many great female authors. Guys aren't so good with words, so they use music or visual art to express themselves.
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  "It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
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Todcasil
rogue DMT elf


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define art....
i see that many women are artists, though they may not paint picture or compose song/music. there is an "art" to living whichever way you choose.... just getting up and commensing your daily rote is an art. examina any human life and it is an exercise in art...
i know more female "artists" (visual artists) than male hands down.
"Many women behave as though they have a chip on their shoulder, as though they are "owed" something simply on virtue of being a woman. Some women (not all of course, just making a point) are rabid men abusers, not just physically, but emotionally as well. Most of my female friends will REFUSE to compromise in a relationship, leaving that burden to the male. I have seen this with domestic issues, such as female to male abuse being tolerated, while male to female abuse carrying much harsher penalties. "
this quote find disturbing, yet very true about the bulk of female society nowadays. <sad face like a clown.
-------------------- Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect GODDESSES Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud GODS. ~Casil
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Zero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
Loc: Passing Cloud
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all abstractions form into art
men women the birds and the bees
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Anonymous
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Re: women and art [Re: Todcasil]
#3516462 - 12/18/04 06:45 AM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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I think you're right. Many women use life as their canvas, much more so than men. They're generally more creative in the art of living.
I also see art as the expression of one's emotions. Men generally use the traditional arts as an output of their emotions, while women express their emotions more openly through life itself.
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Sclorch
Clyster


Registered: 07/12/99
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Re: women and art [Re: looner2]
#3519564 - 12/19/04 03:17 AM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
looner2 said: Well... it's obvious that looner2 lives in a really cool place where there isn't this unspoken understanding that women should be treated as less than equal to men. The Yin to the Pleasantville Yang?
Never did I say that women should be treated less then men. Can you point out where I did?
I never once implied that you did say such a thing. I know it's compound sentence, but re-read what you just quoted me.
-------------------- Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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Mushmonkey
shiftlesslayabout


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Quote:
silversoul7 said: I was just thinking: it might have to do with the fact that women are generally more communicative than men. I don't know many female musicians, but I've met lots of girls who write poetry. There have also been many great female authors. Guys aren't so good with words, so they use music or visual art to express themselves.
I was hoping no one would mention that :|
all the books I own, zero of them are written by women. I'll go double-check right quick but I'm almost positive.. not a one.
i think i've actually read, in its entirety, maybe two books written by women. I've started a great deal, but always stop. I worked in a book store for a year -- I had plenty of opportunity to try and find a female author of acceptable quality.
It's not even a position I like all that much, but I can't argue with what I've seen. There may be a few authors or books that escaped my eyes, and I hope that's true.
Most books written by women seem to really be the same book over and over. There's talking, there's crying, there's probably some male antagonist keeping the female protagonist from what she wants or what she wants to do. 'scuse me while I yawn.. not my cup of tea. And the one sort of book that is predominantly written by women? Romance? I can't say I've read any of those, but I can't say I really think I'm missing anything and I sort of have a suspicion they may be mighty similar to my above outlined Woman's Book.
Be damned if I could give you a reason why. Sure, maybe there'd be more classic books written by women if they had been encouraged Back Then or some bs like that.. I'll buy that. Quality and quantity are independant, though.. and what they have written? I wouldn't go ahead and label it 'quality'.
-------------------- i finally got around to making a sig revel in its glory and quake in fear at its might grar.
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Sclorch
Clyster


Registered: 07/12/99
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The only women on my bookshelf are Pema Chodron, Ayn Rand, and Sylvia Plath.
And, no, I'm not counting all my trashy romance novels.
-------------------- Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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Phluck
Carpal Tunnel


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The Edible Woman by Margaret Atwood is great.
There seem to be quite a few highly respected female authors... maybe you're not reading the right things.
-------------------- "I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson http://phluck.is-after.us
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Sclorch
Clyster


Registered: 07/12/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
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Re: women and art [Re: Phluck]
#3523092 - 12/20/04 12:59 AM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Oops... add Margaret Atwood to my list... I have a copy of her Oryx and Crake... hehehe
-------------------- Note: In desperate need of a cure...
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Mushmonkey
shiftlesslayabout


Registered: 09/25/03
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Re: women and art [Re: Sclorch]
#3523262 - 12/20/04 01:57 AM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Read, did not enjoy  Like I said.. worked in a bookstore. And across the street, literally across the street, was a bookstore 4-5 times the size of the one I worked in.. and they were owned by the same company, so prices were the same. Basically what I'm sayin is.. I had a lot of free time.
I did forget Frankenstein. Mary Shelley. That's a good one.
-------------------- i finally got around to making a sig revel in its glory and quake in fear at its might grar.
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