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OfflineFaaip_De_Oiad
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women and art
    #3512042 - 12/17/04 02:51 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

One of my friends pointed out that women seem to be less prolific than men when it comes to the arts, she asked me why I thought this was, so I got to thinking.

We as humans tend to try to emulate god in a lot of ways, mainly, creating.
Women have the greater part in the creation of human life, and so I think that they don't feel the need to create through art as strongly as men do.

my other friend thought they were just lazy.

any thoughts?


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: women and art [Re: Faaip_De_Oiad]
    #3512088 - 12/17/04 03:09 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I agree with you to a certain extent. I think it might also have to do with emotions. Guys aren't as open about expressing their emotions as girls are, so the arts act as a way of expressing themselves.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: women and art [Re: silversoul7]
    #3512121 - 12/17/04 03:28 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Women are still an oppressed class.

They will catch up in a few generations as soon as the oppressor memes are rendered useless and are buried in their meat sacs.


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InvisibleGustavius
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Re: women and art [Re: Sclorch]
    #3512142 - 12/17/04 03:37 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

i think all of you miss the boat oin this one. women get to express the ul;timate creativity in giving birth and that is suffieicnt.men ken never do this so must attemt in other ways.


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Invisiblevampirism
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Re: women and art [Re: Gustavius]
    #3512558 - 12/17/04 09:20 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Ehm, childbirth isn't artistic expression.

and I have to agree with sclorch- in my experience they are no less willing to go into art.


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Invisibleadrug

Registered: 02/04/03
Posts: 15,800
Re: women and art [Re: Sclorch]
    #3512644 - 12/17/04 09:57 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Sclorch said:
Women are still an oppressed class.

They will catch up in a few generations as soon as the oppressor memes are rendered useless and are buried in their meat sacs.




Exactly. Women were not encouraged to do such things in the past and the ones who did were sometimes even ridiculed. The fine art world has always been dominated by men. Thankfully things have changed somewhat, although the number of well-known women artists is dwarfed by the number of famous male artists.


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Offlinefrogger25
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Re: women and art [Re: adrug]
    #3512913 - 12/17/04 11:35 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

i dont think that women are less prolific in art, maybe in the past do to opression and the view that awomens place is that of a homemaker. from my perspective as a college student i see women a lot more invlved in art then men are for example this semster i took an art history class and it was dissproportionatly filled with women. but on the biological side i think it may have to do with the way men and womens brain's differ. arent men suposed to be more spacially inclined, eg better at forming a mental map, while women's brains are more focused on verbal aspects. i guess you may be able to apply this t art being that mens brains may be better at forming a mental imag of say a sculture they want to create while women might be more inclined to express themselves verbally such as in a poem, song, or other from of writing. i think this also has to do with the domince of specific hemisphres of the brain but i forget which is which. i dont know this might no9t even be applicable at all in real life.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: women and art [Re: frogger25]
    #3513096 - 12/17/04 12:25 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

true
any art class i ever went to (i.e. after being married for several years) was full of women, many eligeable at a time when I wasn't.
still ---{what does that have to do with this}

my productivity on canvas even with a full time job seems manically prolific when compared to the more casual application of most of those classroom attendees ---{token chauvanism}

However -
I am aware of several women who paint 2-5 cnavases per week and only one other maniac like myself which cancells everything else I have been going on about. ---{the truth!}


basically very much the same, and marvellously different!
vive la difference! ---{huh?}


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: women and art [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3513150 - 12/17/04 12:39 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

i see no indication that women are less prolific in the arts


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Invisibleadrug

Registered: 02/04/03
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Re: women and art [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3513837 - 12/17/04 03:42 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Ok...make me a list of all the famous male artists you can think of...

Now list all the famous women artists.

I'm interested to see how disproportionate this list is.


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Invisiblelooner2
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Registered: 06/20/04
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Re: women and art [Re: Sclorch]
    #3513844 - 12/17/04 03:43 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Women are still an oppressed class.

First, who is oppressing them? Second, women belong to a gender, not a class.


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Invisiblevampirism
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Re: women and art [Re: looner2]
    #3513852 - 12/17/04 03:45 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

looner2 said:
Women are still an oppressed class.

First, who is oppressing them? Second, women belong to a gender, not a class.



1) Western society. There ARE balanced / female-tilted societies

2) Gender influences class/social status in Western society.


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Invisiblelooner2
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Re: women and art [Re: vampirism]
    #3513917 - 12/17/04 03:59 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

1.)

No, there are no laws that hinder women in any way. That is what I call balance.

In terms of society, it is now fashionable to oppress men, in an attempt to strengthen women. Turn on the television and what do you see? Mom gets mad at dad? Hits him. Everything is ok, hahaha its FUNNY for that to happen. What if it was the other way around? In any circumstance, even the lightest tap would produce outrage. Why do women get these free pass to instigate violence?

It is also acceptable for women to bash men on a daily basis. Again, watch tv... (I think its a good place to learn how society is changing because these ads are targetted toward an audience and usually reflect the current culture.) You constantly have stupid daddy making a mistake, and the mom fixing it. The male is shown as aloof, out of touch, irrational.

2.)

Women are a gender, not a class/social status, as I said before, regardless of "influence".


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: women and art [Re: looner2]
    #3513998 - 12/17/04 04:19 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

looner2 said:
1.) No, there are no laws that hinder women in any way. That is what I call balance.
In terms of society, it is now fashionable to oppress men, in an attempt to strengthen women. Turn on the television and what do you see? Mom gets mad at dad? Hits him. Everything is ok, hahaha its FUNNY for that to happen. What if it was the other way around? In any circumstance, even the lightest tap would produce outrage. Why do women get these free pass to instigate violence?

It is also acceptable for women to bash men on a daily basis. Again, watch tv... (I think its a good place to learn how society is changing because these ads are targetted toward an audience and usually reflect the current culture.) You constantly have stupid daddy making a mistake, and the mom fixing it. The male is shown as aloof, out of touch, irrational.



It's allowed because men are still dominant.
For the same reason that when Chris Rock makes wisecracks about white people it's funny... but it's racist if a white person were to make wisecracks about black people.

Quote:

2.)Women are a gender, not a class/social status, as I said before, regardless of "influence".



I don't think my use of the word class was inaccurate. And if we want to get specific, women are adult female humans. Gender applies to the male/female division and does not include maturity (adultness).

I know what you meant. You know what I meant.
As a group of people (class), women are still not considered equal to men by the majority of the world (including the good ol' USofA, though it's more of an unspoken understanding). But maybe your town is just a little more utopic than the rest of the world.


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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InvisibleMOTH
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Re: women and art [Re: looner2]
    #3514000 - 12/17/04 04:19 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Things ARE out of whack when it comes to balance between men and women. 

Looner:
Quote:

In terms of society, it is now fashionable to oppress men, in an attempt to strengthen women.




Sadly, this is true.  (from my observations and experiences) 

In some areas of the US, women are still "oppressed," or at least not considered equal to their male counterparts.  I think this mainly has to do with certain religious traditions. 

Overall, women are making great progress and I'm happy about that.  But let's be honest, there seems to be some overcompensation going when it comes to women.  For many women, it's not about being equal to the male anymore...it's about being better.  In my opinion, that's a faulty mindset. 

I think we'll see more women becoming prominant figures in our society.  Especially in our technological age where the advantage of strength is not such a virtue anymore, women will continue to gain momentum with social/political power. 

Whether for good or ill remains to be seen.  :wink:


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: women and art [Re: MOTH]
    #3514015 - 12/17/04 04:25 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

In some areas of the US, women are still "oppressed," or at least not considered equal to their male counterparts. I think this mainly has to do with certain religious traditions.




What's really fun is getting shit from women for knocking religion because of it's behavioral effects...


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Invisibleadrug

Registered: 02/04/03
Posts: 15,800
Re: women and art [Re: MOTH]
    #3514039 - 12/17/04 04:33 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

:thumbup: Great reply, Elle.


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Invisiblelooner2
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Registered: 06/20/04
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Re: women and art [Re: Sclorch]
    #3514045 - 12/17/04 04:34 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

It's allowed because men are still dominant.

First, what do you mean by dominant? Men by nature assert dominance, the kind of dominance that is rooted in hormones and physiology.


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I am in love with Acidic_Sloth



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Invisiblevampirism
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Re: women and art [Re: looner2]
    #3514058 - 12/17/04 04:38 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Men by nature assert dominance, the kind of dominance that is rooted in hormones and physiology.




Wrong. How do you account for matriarchal societies? Or those where men are treated as nothing but sperm producers, and do not even live with the family?


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Invisiblelooner2
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Re: women and art [Re: MOTH]
    #3514063 - 12/17/04 04:38 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)


Overall, women are making great progress and I'm happy about that. But let's be honest, there seems to be some overcompensation going when it comes to women. For many women, it's not about being equal to the male anymore...it's about being better. In my opinion, that's a faulty mindset.


It is not so much about women wanting to be better. In their attempt to equalize/surpass men they do not try to bring themselves up, but instead bring men down. What a poor and desperate way to show your self worth. On top of that, it has a very polarizing consequence.


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I am in love with Acidic_Sloth



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