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Is America beyond hope?
    #3302193 -

Whether you fall to the Left or the Right, I ask of you; is America
so "far gone" from what you think it should be? Are you resigned to
endure what you think is wrong, or you are prepared to move
somewhere else?

I tend to fall into the libertarian camp on a lot of issues(but not all).
I also realize that libertarian ideals have basically no chance of
being implemented on a large scale in this country at the moment or
in the near future. I am sick of my country focusing its
military strength to stand on other people's soil, instead of defending
our own. I am sick of having so much of my money taken from
me while less productive people get free money from the government.
I am sick of the excessive materialism in this country, which in my
opinion lessens our love for our fellow Man. I am sick of watching
my government be incapable of fiscal responsibility and continually
spend more money than it takes in, which puts us further into debt,
and which is harmful to the economic health of the nation. I am sick of
my country becoming entangled in foreign problems that are not
its business. I am sick of the populace continually opting for more
governmental control of our lives, money, and property. Things are not
getting better...they are getting worse.


I'll vote my conscience. But, I will also sit back and watch America
decay like all bloated empires do. When it becomes unbearable(and
it is getting there), I will move somewhere that is more agreeable
to how I want to live. I hope I know when it is time to jump ship.

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Re: Is America beyond hope? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3302204 -

America has been hi-jacked.


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Re: Is America beyond hope? [Re: usefulidiot]
    #3302251 -


America has been hi-jacked

America was hijacked long before Sept. 11. This country has been
headed down the wrong road for many decades.

America has been hijacked by the Left and the Right. It has been
hijacked by special interest groups. The public coffers and the legal
codes have been raped.

People are too stupid and weak to maintain a republic.

Edited by RandalFlagg (10/31/04 09:28 PM)

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Re: Is America beyond hope? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3302313 -

we'd be in much better shape if people would turn off the damn TV.

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Re: Is America beyond hope? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3302341 -

well i definitely consider myself to be far to the "left" of either Republican or Democratic parties - the party whose platform I most agree with would be the Green party, although I wouldn't consider myself to be a member of any political party...

i guess you can say that i've already jumped ship... i moved to norway 2 years ago to go to school, and after spending the past 2 months back in the United States, have become reinforced in my decision to move to Denmark to pursue higher education (for free, at that!). and i know that change must come at home, from the grassroots, and so forth - but i personally feel that i can be more valuable to the cause of social justice when i'm not suffering from depression... and anytime i spend more than 1 month in this country, it starts hitting me - the feeling that the american people are allowing this country to lead the way towards an insustainable, unequal, environmentally screwed up world... and that they just don't care. so i can say that for the selfish reason of my own mental health, i've jumped ship... but i also believe (and hope) that the power of the internet and other IT technology is going to make it harder and harder for "them" to keep deceiving the masses - that the truth will eventually spill through the cracks - and that the masses of humanity will eventually be able to stand together and say - we all belong to the same species - we are all a part of the earth - and so we are all deserving of dignity, respect, and to benefit from the developments of collective human knowledge...


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Re: Is America beyond hope? [Re: ]
    #3302350 -


we'd be in much better shape if people would turn off the damn TV.

Hm...talking about TV's, I was looking at some badass High
Definition models in a local advertisement today.  Hahaha!  And
here I am decrying excessive materialism and the lack of knowledge
and initiative of the American public...and I was drooling over a $4000
TV.  What is wrong with me..  :rolleyes:  :smirk:

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Re: Is America beyond hope? [Re: ]
    #3302365 -

mushmaster said:
we'd be in much better shape if people would turn off the damn TV.


or, if the media wasn't controlled by the same corporate interest that controls the government...

nah, on second thought - make people read newspapers... fuck the television.


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Re: Is America beyond hope? [Re: Krishna]
    #3302401 -

or, if the media wasn't controlled by the same corporate interest that controls the government...

that isn't the problem. do you know how many hours the average american spends in front of a television absorbing this bullshit that is now our mainstream culture?

Edited by mushmaster (10/31/04 10:08 PM)

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Re: Is America beyond hope? [Re: ]
    #3302412 -


do you know how many hours the average american spends in front of a
television absorbing this bullshit that is now our mainstream culture?

All I want to look at and think about is bitches, fast food, expensive
cars, and money. And, I want to experience it all on my High-Definition
Plasma screen television set! Word!

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Re: Is America beyond hope? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3303055 -

Ameican politics are not the problem. The problem is the materialist, self-serving consumer culture that infects our society. If you want to fix the country, you have to start with the people. Blaming the politicains we elect for our problems, and making cynical and self-fulfilling prophecies about the direction of the government doesn't help at all.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."

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Re: Is America beyond hope? [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3303069 -

Divided_Sky said:
Ameican politics are not the problem. The problem is the materialist, self-serving consumer culture that infects our society. If you want to fix the country, you have to start with the people. Blaming the politicains we elect for our problems, and making cynical and self-fulfilling prophecies about the direction of the government doesn't help at all.


well said

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Re: Is America beyond hope? [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3303070 -

Divided_Sky said:
Ameican politics are not the problem. The problem is the materialist, self-serving consumer culture that infects our society. If you want to fix the country, you have to start with the people. Blaming the politicains we elect for our problems, and making cynical and self-fulfilling prophecies about the direction of the government doesn't help at all.


I think politics and the materialistic status-quo seem to pretty much be in bed with eachother..

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Re: Is America beyond hope? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3303238 -

As much as I bitch about our government and how oppressive it is, in the big scheme of things, we don't have it that bad. We certainly have our work cut out for us, but I don't think it's "beyond hope." I doubt we will ever have exactly the kind of government I'd like, but it's still a goal that can be strived for. It'll inevitably have to involve some compromise, but at this point, I'll take whatever freedom I can get.

But in order for this to happen, there will have to be a mass awakening. Many people today are unaware of how their freedoms have been hijacked from them, or don't realize that it doesn't have to be that way. That's why I plan to vote Libertarian in every election(unless there's a libertarian running as a Democrat or Republican) and raise awareness about the party and its platform. I feel that a lot of Americans would be open to libertarian ideas if they were exposed to them. I hope to help the Libertarian Party achieve the exposure they deserve. Then, just maybe, those ideas might have enough popular support to bring about real change in this country. Even if it was the Green Party instead, I'd prefer their platform over the current two-party bullshit.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: Is America beyond hope? [Re: usefulidiot]
    #3303683 -

usefulidiot said:
Divided_Sky said:
Ameican politics are not the problem. The problem is the materialist, self-serving consumer culture that infects our society. If you want to fix the country, you have to start with the people. Blaming the politicains we elect for our problems, and making cynical and self-fulfilling prophecies about the direction of the government doesn't help at all.


I think politics and the materialistic status-quo seem to pretty much be in bed with eachother..


my impressions as well


--------------------
"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma

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Re: Is America beyond hope? [Re: silversoul7]
    #3304010 -


in the big scheme of things, we don't have it that bad.

Definately true. I would rather live in America than some Middle
Eastern dictatorship.

I just wish that things were more to my liking in this country.

Also, history shows that empires do not fair well. And, let's be
honest, we could qualify as an empire. America is the richest and
most powerful nation in the world.

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Re: Is America beyond hope? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3304042 -

is America
so "far gone" from what you think it should be?

Well I think it (America) is exactly as it "should be" for the present moment. I think these things have to happen, and will happen as need be. There is certainly nothing I can personally do about it, nor is there anything most people could do on their own to change things. Group work is almost entirely in adequate because of something called "the mob".

Is America "beyond hope"? Yes. Especially if your hope is that America will do a 180 and reverse the course it is currently on. I doubt that will happen until it's "too late", if it isn't already. History is forgotten, as usual, and we are doomed to repeat the mistakes of our ancestors.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: Is America beyond hope? [Re: trendal]
    #3304083 -


Is America "beyond hope"? Yes.

Well, no offense, but you live in Canada. The basic climate and
direction of America is something that Americans have a better
idea on I think. Although, you are more than entitled to your
opinion.

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Re: Is America beyond hope? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3304105 -

Well, no offense, but you live in Canada.

None taken :wink:

Please don't forget that, while we don't like to hear it, Canada is practically the 51st state. Something I continuously find amusing is when Americans come up here to visit and can't help remarking that "wow...it looks exactly the same here!". While there are some very important and visible cultural differences, the ammount of knowledge the average Canadian has about the USA is not small. Most Canadians know far more about America, its culture, history, and its politics than Americans know about Canada. It's the natural result of being immersed in a media environment which is well over 90% American.

Everything that happens in the USA effects every Canadian just about as much as it effects any American.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: Is America beyond hope? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3304112 -

I don't think we are beyond hope but there are some big issues we have to deal with to bring everyone back together. I used to be a pretty staunch righty (staunch in that I supported the definition of the republicans, not the new and improved version) but my politicians, like always, abandoned that definition of small government and individual rights. It has become a party of with us or against us which bothers me greatly. The left is no better in my opinion where they abstain from individual responsibility and accountability raising a crop or feminized men, militarized women and unable to make decisions on their own while penalizing those that make an effort to appease the underachievers. We can argue who is better all day and it will come down the center at 50% so it's useless to argue the point. The problem is the people. We elect the rich to lead us and are surprised when they appear out of touch with the average Americans. For example when Bush Sr. needed an explanation on how a grocery scanner worked, does anyone NOT know how one works? I'm not against the rich, I believe that if you make a billion dollars honestly, you should have the right to keep that money and pay the same percentage of taxes (none is a perfect world) as that person making 30K a year. The problem is that the American public is letting itself down. The fault comes down to those that vote for "R" and "D", instead of the candidate's ideas. I had a friend who is a staunch Democrap with absolutely no experience in politics who got on the ballot for a city seat and lost to something like 48% to 46%. She even admitted that all she had to do was put a "D" after her name and she'd get almost half of the vote, she did absolutely no advertising.

The American people are to blame for electing dipshits and not holding those dipshits accountable. I said this in a different thread but Plato said it best when he said "The masses are incurably ignorant"


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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