Home | Community | Message Board


Out-Grow.com - Mushroom Growing Kits & Supplies
Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Political Discussion

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]
Offlinepattern
multiplayer

Registered: 07/19/02
Posts: 2,183
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
American Terrorism and the Drug War
    #1524218 - 05/06/03 12:30 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

American Terrorism and the Drug War

The Americans are right and the Americans are wrong. I believe they were right to remove Saddam's regime, and it's a good thing that there are nations in the world willing to stand up against tyranny. But Americans seem forever on the brink of turning into a Nazi state, loving to live in fear, unable to remove the badge of terrorist suffering.

Now let me propose to you a theory why the United States can never win the War on Terrorism as long as it wages, at the same time, the War on Drugs. People are united in the war on terrorism, but they are forever divided on the war on drugs. Millions of good people are drug users, while there are relatively few terrorists. The methods to catch and imprison both of these "criminals" are the same: invasion of privacy, phone taps, internet snooping, espionage and spying, anoymous tips, and low-level informants (whistle blowers in the form of friends and family).

The people will never allow the government the power to stop terrorism, because the government also has the Drug War on its agenda. And if the government gets those powers, even under the pretense of only using them to stop terrorism, they will eventually use those powers for their insane Drug War policies. This is why the Americans have a conflicted moral dilemma. Stop terrorism, and at the same time they give up their freedom.

It is important to keep in mind some sobering facts about terrorism. The casualties are relatively low. In 2001 there was a spike in the number of casualties, but generally, the casualties per year are under 1000. Contrast this to drunk driving fatalities or gun deaths, and you'll now see why it isn't necessary to give the government unlimited sweeping powers to rob you of your rights and freedoms. Terrorism is truly a threat to our freedom, but only if we let it be. Like a lightning strike, we can never really predict when and where the next strike will be, so we just have to move on with our lives and hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

The Drug War has impacted American foreign policy, and Americans have constantly tried to push their morality on the nations of the world. They convinced the UN to implement a worldwide anti-drug policy, which is basically a war against a good portion of citizens of the world. Americans gave Afghanistan money to stop opium production, which the Taliban didn't use for that purpose. Americans provide military support to wage a war against cocaine in Columbia. Around the world, American foreign policy has been carrying out the Drug War, in an effort to blame domestic problems on other countries. After all, Americans are perfect, and therefore the drug problem cannot be internal. It must be the fault of the vagrant nations who have no morals when it comes to drugs. But the people of these nations begin to hate America, and hate is fuel for terrorism.

Its hard to root for an America that has such a twisted vision for the future of mankind: no drugs ever. We all cheered when the son-of-a-bitch Saddam fell. The lesser of two evils prevailed. Why do you think people were protesting? What protestors saw was a gigantic milatary machine going in to slaughter the people of a little understood country. The massive protests on February 15th and March 22nd were heeded by America. The proposed Shock and Awe campaign to simulate a nuclear attack without nukes, was toned down by many degrees. I can't prove that this link is fact, but without the protests, I'm convinced that America would have continued with their initial plans to decimate Baghdad.

The issue with America is that they can't get their own act together, and so they blame the rest of the world for their problems. The Drug War, which has failed and continues to be a larger failure every year, is their biggest problem. It influences their foreign policy, their culture, and their attitude to the world. America only has itself to blame.

my two cents

PS. (sorry no sources, this is just commentary)


--------------------
man = monkey + mushroom


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMadtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
 User Gallery

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,286
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 3 months, 20 days
Re: American Terrorism and the Drug War [Re: pattern]
    #1524272 - 05/06/03 12:52 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

The trick is...The Terrorists dont like drugs. Under the Taliban, poppy production in Afghanistan was nearly 0. Now they're predicting record crops.

So...If you want to support Drug Prohibition, write Osoma a check?


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineSalvia_B
Stranger
Registered: 05/06/03
Posts: 21
Last seen: 13 years, 7 months
Re: American Terrorism and the Drug War [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1524440 - 05/06/03 02:04 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

The war on drugs is nothing but a civil war. It invades our homes, families, and effects teh way we live.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Anonymous

Re: American Terrorism and the Drug War [Re: Salvia_B]
    #1524472 - 05/06/03 02:20 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

well who's fighting back?


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleAnnapurna1
liberal pussy
Female User Gallery
Registered: 05/21/02
Posts: 5,646
Loc: innsmouth..MA
Re: American Terrorism and the Drug War [Re: Salvia_B]
    #1524621 - 05/06/03 03:26 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

The war on drugs is nothing but a civil war. It invades our homes, families, and effects teh way we live.




Yes and no. More precisely, its a class war being waged by the rich against the poor. The "war on terrorism" is an escalation of the same global class conflict [Chomsky].


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Anonymous

Re: American Terrorism and the Drug War [Re: Annapurna1]
    #1524627 - 05/06/03 03:29 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

there are alot of rather rich cocaine users out there.

there are also alot of working class 'good americans' who make just enough to make ends meet who are in full support of uncle sam and his war on drugs.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleAnnapurna1
liberal pussy
Female User Gallery
Registered: 05/21/02
Posts: 5,646
Loc: innsmouth..MA
Re: American Terrorism and the Drug War [Re: ]
    #1524637 - 05/06/03 03:34 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I think what Noam is referring to when he talks about his "class war" is something more along the lines of Theda Skocpol; ie. that fascism is a class war of the rich against the poor and socialism is the opposite.


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineSalvia_B
Stranger
Registered: 05/06/03
Posts: 21
Last seen: 13 years, 7 months
Re: American Terrorism and the Drug War [Re: Annapurna1]
    #1524659 - 05/06/03 03:42 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I dont see how 'class' has anything to do with it. Many different people, from many different cultures and classes use drugs. It seems to me more like an excuse to bully, exploit, and breed a constant atmosphere of mistrust, so that the government may exploit situations, and groups of people to whatever end they desire.

Anyone read farenheit 451? The society was at war, but no-one knew who the enemy was, yet all these security measures were completely "nescessary".

I think the war on terrorism is an extension of the same tool, as we already see signs of the gov. linking the two closely together.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Anonymous

Re: American Terrorism and the Drug War [Re: Annapurna1]
    #1524839 - 05/06/03 04:44 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

i think the war on drugs is more of an intolerance issue. intolerance of people that use drugs is almost always a belief of those who also are racist, religiously intolerant, homophobic, or sexist. they're all on the same level.

drug use really knows no economic lines. some prohibition laws are unfairly stacked against poor folks. for instance, laws against cocaine, typically a rich, white person's drug, are much less severe than those against the freebase form of the same drug, which is generally used by poor minorities.

also, minorities are almost always handed out harsher sentences for the same drug crimes than a good suburbanite WASP would get.

while some aspects of prohibition enforcement are stacked against minorites, i don't think that the drug war itself is entirely an attack on the poor by the rich.

it's more like... a war on 'drug' users by alcohol drinkers, cigarette smokers, coffee drinkers, pharmaceutical users, and bona-fide non-users.

i liken it to religious persecution.


Edited by Anonymous (05/06/03 04:45 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMadtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
 User Gallery

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,286
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 3 months, 20 days
Re: American Terrorism and the Drug War [Re: ]
    #1524853 - 05/06/03 04:50 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I'm not entirely sure theres any conspiracy by anyone else against others...I think its like this, and let me stress that this is only my opinion...

I think the first drug laws were put into place for good reasons. I mean, Cocaine in many many OTC remedies was getting people hooked, Codeine and morphine were being given to babies to help them sleep, etc. As time went on, there got to be the mindset among those who make the laws that ANY drug must be bad.

Therefore, sentences were increased, more money was spent on prevention, more things were made illegal. In the end, you get what we have today, a total fuck-job.

Of course, the above is not in any way referring to marijuana, a completely different story.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Anonymous

Re: American Terrorism and the Drug War [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1524868 - 05/06/03 04:57 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

yeah, there is a case for certain classes of drugs. still, i don't think it in any way justifies the drug war.

i mean... one could say that an addiction is a loss of freedom... and it is, but so it voluntarily cutting off your own arm. people should be allowed to act as they wish. an addiction 'forcing' a person into a certain behavior pattern is not nearly as bad as the government doing it (with tax dollars for that matter).

there is absolutely NO case for laws against cannabis and and psychedelics.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineSalvia_B
Stranger
Registered: 05/06/03
Posts: 21
Last seen: 13 years, 7 months
Re: American Terrorism and the Drug War [Re: ]
    #1524880 - 05/06/03 05:02 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

...or any entheogen really.

"Let us concede that nature is legitimate."


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMadtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
 User Gallery

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,286
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 3 months, 20 days
Re: American Terrorism and the Drug War [Re: Salvia_B]
    #1524887 - 05/06/03 05:06 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Right. I completely agree that there is no reason anyone of legal age should not be able to buy marijuana. Or mushrooms...

As far as LSD...I dont know. I mean, it shouldnt be illegal, but neither do I think it would be good to sell to any consenting adult. Its a very powerful substance in very small quantities...You have to take into consideration that 90% of Americans are too stupid to find America on a world map. Do you want them each dosing themselves up on 20,000Mcg's of acid?


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineSalvia_B
Stranger
Registered: 05/06/03
Posts: 21
Last seen: 13 years, 7 months
Re: American Terrorism and the Drug War [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #1524903 - 05/06/03 05:10 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I don't think acid is considered an entheogen.  But LSD, E, and other chemical drugs....personally i wouldn't touch the shit anymore.
Would i have had other entheogens and information been available?...hard to say, but i think all substances should be allowed, just educate people so that they can see why to stay away from E, meth, crack etc...
Everyone has a right to experiment. :grin:


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinepattern
multiplayer

Registered: 07/19/02
Posts: 2,183
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
Re: American Terrorism and the Drug War [Re: Salvia_B]
    #1525188 - 05/06/03 06:59 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I like the decriminalization solution. I think what the DEA and their supporters are afraid of is a mass saturation of drugs into society. Imagine LSD and psychedelics become completely legal; they would be advertised, promoted, distributed, etc. They could become completely commonplace, very fast. Children are the real concern, do we want kids watching commercials for drugs on TV? No!

With decrim, it plays into both camps. The anti-drug folks don't have to worry about living in a drugged out society. The pro-drug folks don't have to worry about being imprisoned. They get a fine if they are caught abusing drugs, ie promoting them in public places where minors are, selling them openly in public, etc. Ultimately decrim is better than the Drug War.

I think a solution can be found that will satisfy both sides.


--------------------
man = monkey + mushroom


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Anonymous

Re: American Terrorism and the Drug War [Re: pattern]
    #1525241 - 05/06/03 07:26 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Imagine LSD and psychedelics become completely legal; they would be advertised, promoted, distributed, etc. They could become completely commonplace, very fast. Children are the real concern, do we want kids watching commercials for drugs on TV? No!

sometimes i think it would do our society good if there were a little more LSD around.

i don't think that television stations would advertize to children.

for one, children would not be allowed to buy drugs, and so spending money to advertize to them would be a waste.

second, people would boycott (or at least not let their children watch) networks with children's programming and ads for drugs. maybe people would boycott television stations that advertized drugs altogether. i think that even if it were legal to advertize drugs on television, it wouldn't be very common for this reason.

if there were certain stations which advertized drugs, and people didn't want their children to view these channels, their would be a demand (that would be filled quickly) for products that restricted which channels could be viewed by children.

the only restriction on advertizing i think there should be is on billboards. you can't exactly keep your kids from looking out the window. yet cigarette ads are allowed on billboards, but not on TV. whaaaat?

They could become completely commonplace

how many of your neighbors do drugs is none of your business, unless of course, they do something like steal from you or attack you, in which case they should face very real penalties. and you shouldn't be forced to pay welfare to them.

so what if drugs are commonplace? this is like saying that gay marriage shouldn't be allowed lest open homosexuality become 'commonplace'.

not that this would likely even happen. i think people can handle drugs being legalized without getting carried away with it. we can handle alcohol and cigarettes.

get a fine if they are caught abusing drugs, ie promoting them in public places where minors are, selling them openly in public, etc.

selling drugs to children should be a crime.

but why should someone be fined for using drugs? why should 2 consenting adults be fined for exchanging money for drugs? why should the owner of a television station be prohibited from showing drug ads to willing viewers?


Edited by Anonymous (05/06/03 07:46 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinepattern
multiplayer

Registered: 07/19/02
Posts: 2,183
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
Re: American Terrorism and the Drug War [Re: ]
    #1525294 - 05/06/03 07:40 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I agree with most of your points, but, do you really believe that legalization is the immediate solution? I dont think it will happen. I think in the long run, legalization is where we wanna be. But because of the Drug War, and because of the mass misconceptions about psychedelics, I think its the wrong move now. I envision decrim as the first step towards legalization. At the very least, its better than the status quo.

On the other hand, if legalization happened today, I would be partying like its New Years.


--------------------
man = monkey + mushroom


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Anonymous

Re: American Terrorism and the Drug War [Re: pattern]
    #1525318 - 05/06/03 07:47 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

yeah, it'd definitely be an improvement.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinepattern
multiplayer

Registered: 07/19/02
Posts: 2,183
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
Re: American Terrorism and the Drug War [Re: ]
    #1525767 - 05/06/03 10:44 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I win.


--------------------
man = monkey + mushroom


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineGrav
 User Gallery

Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 4,454
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
Re: American Terrorism and the Drug War [Re: pattern]
    #1525915 - 05/06/03 11:15 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

read up on how the war on drugs was started and who was in charge of it, to further your opinion on how much bullshit it is.

power hungry little fucks...


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]

General Interest >> Political Discussion

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* WAPO ..terrorized by "war on terror"...
Annapurna1
663 3 03/26/07 12:21 AM
by Annapurna1
* Latest Drug War Casualty - Our rights silversoul7 455 1 08/28/03 09:38 PM
by monoamine
* Anti-Drug War superior court judge becomes Libertarian Party 40oz 497 2 04/28/03 05:54 AM
by 40oz
* The Drug-War and Gun Control xDuckYouSuckerx 355 0 05/28/06 02:28 PM
by xDuckYouSuckerx
* lets not forget the DRUG WAR murseh8r 957 12 10/24/04 06:31 PM
by Rose
* Asa "globalization of drug war" Hutchinson MOoKie 1,754 6 05/13/01 06:18 AM
by MokshaMan
* A conservative on the on the ever growing drug war Divided_Sky 598 4 05/10/04 05:24 PM
by phi1618
* The Drug War Arena OneMoreRobot3021 969 16 05/07/07 04:54 PM
by zappaisgod

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Prisoner#1, Enlil
1,774 topic views. 0 members, 1 guests and 5 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
Edabea
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2016 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.089 seconds spending 0.003 seconds on 18 queries.