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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Rose]
    #3260233 -

Sure I understand. You make statements, don't stand by them, claim people should know what you mean, alter posts and then whine when called on it. You then resort to threats.

What's not to understand.

Get a job you can handle. Moderating is not that job.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #3260239 -

Let's see how well I can handle this job...

Luvdem,

Get on topic. I will too as soon as this post is made.

This is your final warning.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Phred]
    #3260308 -

Quote:
pinksharkmark said:
Cervantes writes:

It is hard to debate, when both sides play by different rules.

It is indeed. Please tell us what rules you are following, because they bear no relation to rules of debate I've ever come across.





Review this thread.

I'm not going to re-repeat myself just to amuse you.

Quote:

When you get a minute, you might deign to answer these questions:

1) Why do you believe the statistics referenced by Thomas only make liberals look stupid?




OK, here's a few quotes from Cal.

* 70 percent of respondents did not know that Congress recently passed and President Bush signed a Medicare prescription drug benefit

YAY! Bush gave us drugs!

but

Most people believe there is no UNIVERSAL health care...

Stupid Liberals!

* 58 percent said they knew "nothing" or "very little" about the controversial USA Patriot Act, despite a slew of TV commercials by the American Civil Liberties Union denouncing it.

Sounds to me like Cal suggests,

The Patriot act is GOOD!

and

The ACLU is EVIL!

Anybody who thinks otherwise is WRONG.

Thanks Cal for enlightening us.

* For example, 61 percent believe that there has been a net loss of jobs in 2004,

OOPS! After 3 years of job loss, I guess people didn't notice that this year was a LITTLE better.

YAY Bush!

Thanks Cal!

* 58 percent believe that the administration sees a link between Saddam Hussein and 9/11

Cal is suggesting that Bush and Cheney certainly never said anything of the sort... connecting 9-11 with Iraq. This must be a Liberal conspiracy.

There aren't any quotes out there that suggest Bush saw a link between 9-11 and Iraq... are there?

* 57 percent believe that increases in domestic spending have not contributed significantly to the current federal budget deficit.

Well, OK, that one DOES make the Bush administration look bad.

I guess you're right Pinky, Cal Thomas is Fair and Balanced.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Rose]
    #3260391 -

Cervantes writes:

OK, here's a few quotes from Cal.

* 70 percent of respondents did not know that Congress recently passed and President Bush signed a Medicare prescription drug benefit

YAY! Bush gave us drugs!

but

Most people believe there is no UNIVERSAL health care?

Stupid Liberals!

And where does Cal Thomas say that only liberals responded to the survey?

* 58 percent said they knew "nothing" or "very little" about the controversial USA Patriot Act, despite a slew of TV commercials by the American Civil Liberties Union denouncing it.

Sounds to me like Cal suggests,

The Patriot act is GOOD

and

The ACLU is EVIL!

Anybody who thinks otherwise is WRONG.

Thanks Cal for enlightening us.

Actually, Cal expressed no opinion either way. All he pointed out was that 58% of Americans (not 58% of American liberals -- 58% of Americans) said they knew nothing or very little about the Ptriot Act.

* For example, 61 percent believe that there has been a net loss of jobs in 2004,

OOPS! After 3 years of job loss, I guess people didn't notice that this year was a LITTLE better.

YAY Bush!

Thanks Cal!

Again, how does this simple statement make liberals look stupid? Are conservatives not also concerned about losing their jobs? I hate to have to point this out yet again, but since less than 38% of Americans describe themselves as liberals, a survey of Americans in which 61% of the respondents give the same answer necessarily will include many conservatives.

No point performing this exercise for the other two -- it's mere variations on a theme. Someone used to looking for "subtext" in your reaction might think the reason you -- as a self-described liberal -- immediately assumed Thomas chose only examples which make liberals look stupid is that you held all the same misperceptions he mentions. It's a good thing I don't go looking for subtext, huh?

Speaking of subtext, though, I remain curious as to which "hidden gesture between the lines" you believe I was making. I guess I'll just have to deal with having my curiosity unsatisfied.

Vote Badnarik!



pinky


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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Phred]
    #3260408 -

It is truely frustrating when I answer your questions, only to have you ask them again.

I sense a pattern.

I know you are trying to make ME look stupid.

I'm afraid your tactic is backfiring.


6 days Pinky! 6 days we've been having this discussion. I know some of the posts were lost, doesn't change the fact... this is getting old Mr. Literal.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Phred]
    #3260410 -

Now now pinky, it's not what he says.... it's what he means!


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Rose]
    #3260457 -

Cervantes writes:

It is truely frustrating when I answer your questions, only to have you ask them again.

Sorry you are frustrated, but try to imagine my frustration in trying to get you to answer the questions. Despite your protestations, you haven't answered either of the two questions. You have danced tangentially all around the first one, but you haven't answered it. Why do you say Thomas's examples make only liberals look stupid?

The second one you have (again) ignored completely.

If you don't want to answer either of them, just say so.

But don't forget to vote. For Badnarik, please.


pinky


--------------------

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Phred]
    #3260545 -

I replied to your first questions... about Cal Thomas... multiple times... Scroll up.

I answered your question with quotes from Cal Thomas' essay.

I can't help it if you don't remember replying the post I am referring to.

You did.

As for your second question:

2) What "hidden gesture between the lines" do you believe I am making?

I was explaining to unbeliever why this thread got at least one, "1 shroom" rating, when I said it.

Here's the quote:

Quote:
Cervantes said:
It is a shame Cal Thomas is not Fair and Balanced. He makes good points but he only use(d) examples that make liberals look stupid.

How 'bout the percentage of voters who can find England on a map?

or

The number of people who believe Iraq was involved in 9-11?

Still, Pinky, thanks for the gesture... I just sense a hidden gesture between the lines.



I'd like to think you are smart enough to figure out what I meant by that "Hidden gesture" comment.

If you are really losing sleep over it, ask someone else what they think I meant.

Make sure they read the WHOLE thread first.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Rose]
    #3260571 -

Cervantes said:
I know you are trying to make ME look stupid.



No, no thats not it. I think you're doing a pretty good job of doing that yourself.

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Stein]
    #3260576 -

Ok, let's keep this on topic.

How 'bout adding something to your statement, like... oh... I dunno... evidence, links, quotes...

ANYTHING that is on topic would be fine.

Kthx


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Phred]
    #3260796 -

I find it offensive that just because the average American is not well informed by your standards that they should not vote.
I am a democrat.
I voted already by absentee ballot along democratic party lines.
I have followed the national election very close, and my local senate and congressional race as well, but not as close.
But when you vote it is not just for president as anyone who HAS voted will know. And you mean to say you know who is the better coroner, sheriff, or DA in your local area?
Do you really care?
I think many of the people you talk down to don't care that much...but they do care about the big issues. That is why people register along one party or another.

I believe in high taxes, big government, weaker corporations.
I am pro-choice, Pro-gun control, Pro-environmental regulation.
For stem cell research, strict separation of religion and government.
I am for world court, UN, Kato treaty, government run health care for all, Importation of prescription drugs, sane drug laws, and pension reform.

These views all fall under the democratic party line.
So an il-informed ignorant American like some of you put it can go ahead and still vote and know he is choosing the party that will fight for his ideals and views on life.
I vote democrat for that reason...even if I have no clue as to who I am voting for.
Is that so bad?
Am I then one of the people that should not vote because I am not as informed as you or others with an inflated ego?
Some people feel that their party will do them right and put faith, trust and most important of all THEIR VOTE to work.

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: quarkyquasar]
    #3261186 -

quarkyquasar writes:

I find it offensive that just because the average American is not well informed by your standards that they should not vote.

I haven't said uninformed people shouldn't vote. I merely urge informed people to vote.

By the rest of your post it is apparent you will vote the straight Democrat ticket Democrat no matter what -- that you trust the Democrats to do whatever is mostly in line with your own political philosophy, so informing yourself on the issues is unnecessary. That's fine. If I were an American I would probably vote the straight Libertarian ticket unless a particular Libertarian was a complete Kerry-like scumbag, in which case I'd vote for someone else.

I urged all Americans who frequent this forum to vote. I am urging you to vote as well -- even though I know full well you'll vote for that lying sack of pus. What more do you want?


pinky


--------------------

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Rose]
    #3261343 -

Cervantes writes:

Quote:
I replied to your first questions... about Cal Thomas... multiple times... Scroll up.


No, you didn't. You made comments about Thomas filling in for Bill O'Reily. That wasn't the question. Here it is again --

Why do you claim Thomas used examples that make only liberals look stupid?

Quote:
I answered your question with quotes from Cal Thomas' essay.


You used quotes, yes. You didn't answer the question. Here it is again -- why do you believe Thomas's examples make only liberals look stupid?

Quote:
As for your second question:

2) What "hidden gesture between the lines" do you believe I am making?

I was explaining to unbeliever why this thread got at least one, "1 shroom" rating, when I said it.

Here's the quote:

Quote:

Cervantes said:
It is a shame Cal Thomas is not Fair and Balanced. He makes good points but he only use(d) examples that make liberals look stupid.

How 'bout the percentage of voters who can find England on a map?

or

The number of people who believe Iraq was involved in 9-11?

Still, Pinky, thanks for the gesture... I just sense a hidden gesture between the lines.



I'd like to think you are smart enough to figure out what I meant by that "Hidden gesture" comment.


I'm not smart enough to figure it out. Besides, no matter what I said about it, you'd claim I was "misreading" it or "putting words into" your mouth anyway. That's why I am asking you -- yet again -- what you believe my "hidden gesture" was? Why are you so shy about clarifying this? I'm puzzled at your reluctance to make yourself clear.

pinky


--------------------

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Phred]
    #3261462 -

My post was not directed soley at you pinksharkmark. I understand and respect what you have said. It was more at the idea that some of the statements in this thread raised for me.
Also, why so much flaming and bickering? I was excited about this thread at first, but it sure lost focus. Let that silly crap go and move on guys.....

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Rose]
    #3261477 -

I thought I asked you to scroll up.

Cervantes said:
pinksharkmark said:
Quote:
When you get a minute, you might deign to answer these questions:

1) Why do you believe the statistics referenced by Thomas only make liberals look stupid?



OK, here's a few quotes from Cal.

* 70 percent of respondents did not know that Congress recently passed and President Bush signed a Medicare prescription drug benefit

YAY! Bush gave us drugs!

but

Most people believe there is no UNIVERSAL health care...

Stupid Liberals!

* 58 percent said they knew "nothing" or "very little" about the controversial USA Patriot Act, despite a slew of TV commercials by the American Civil Liberties Union denouncing it.

Sounds to me like Cal suggests,

The Patriot act is GOOD!

and

The ACLU is EVIL!

Anybody who thinks otherwise is WRONG.

Thanks Cal for enlightening us.

* For example, 61 percent believe that there has been a net loss of jobs in 2004,

OOPS! After 3 years of job loss, I guess people didn't notice that this year was a LITTLE better.

YAY Bush!

Thanks Cal!

* 58 percent believe that the administration sees a link between Saddam Hussein and 9/11

Cal is suggesting that Bush and Cheney certainly never said anything of the sort... connecting 9-11 with Iraq. This must be a Liberal conspiracy.

There aren't any quotes out there that suggest Bush saw a link between 9-11 and Iraq... are there?

* 57 percent believe that increases in domestic spending have not contributed significantly to the current federal budget deficit.

Well, OK, that one DOES make the Bush administration look bad.

I guess you're right Pinky, Cal Thomas is Fair and Balanced.



--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Rose]
    #3261521 -

I did scroll up. Where do you make any attempt, "subtext"-laden or in plain speech -- to show that Thomas's examples make only liberals look stupid?

And you continue to dodge my question regarding what you believe my "hidden gesture" might have been. Guess that one will remain a mystery.

pinky


--------------------

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: quarkyquasar]
    #3261538 -

quarkyquasar writes:

My post was not directed soley at you pinksharkmark. I understand and respect what you have said. It was more at the idea that some of the statements in this thread raised for me.

Fair enough. What confused me was that you had replied to my post, so I presumed your comments were directed at me alone. Glad you clarified that.

Also, why so much flaming and bickering?

Was that one I am supposed to answer, or is it also for Cervantes or infidelGOD or luvdemshrooms? For my part, I don't consider a polite request (or in my case, half a dozen requests) to answer a simple question to be bickering.


pinky


--------------------

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Phred]
    #3261698 -

As for "Reading between the lines,"

Here's EXACTLY what I said:

"Pinky, thanks for the gesture... I just sense a hidden gesture between the lines."

IT WAS ANOTHER JOKE!

Sorry dude, it wasn't very funny (although it had a double meaning, so I should get SOME bonus points) but I was in a humorous mood last night, and surprisingly or not... you misinterpreted my light natured mood for something more sinister.

I had a similar run in with Luvdem in this thread, perhaps you noticed it...

What can I say?

Damn, you could probably take me less seriously. You DEFINITELY should stop taking everything I say literally. Unlike some here, I don't disagree with you every time you post. And unlike others, I don't dislike people just because I disagree with them.

All I meant by "Between the lines," was, even though your intent in this thread was sweet... the conservatively biased article you chose to use was obviously considered to be a backhanded slap to some Liberals who read it. Which I suspected was why someone gave this thread a one shroom rating, shortly after it was posted... despite your good intents. BTW... When I said what I said, I was answering this question: "Why did someone give this thread a 1 shroom rating?"

Now, for the gesture...

The gesture I had in mind was a BIG MIDDLE FINGER.

Let me explain.

The read between the lines gesture, where I come from, means... A guy holds 3 fingers up to you, and says "Read between the lines," you then, look at the three fingers and focus on the one in the middle... ie: asking someone to read between the lines, with a gesture, means you are flipping them off.

Perhaps this phrase was colloquial enough to slip by without you ever hearing it Pinky. But, that is what it means, and it is quite a common way of subtly telling someone to go fuck themself. That's what the "Read between the lines," gesture means.

So, what I meant by saying you were making another gesture between the lines, was: I could easily see a very Anti Liberal Bias in your post, and in the link you provided... despite your good intentions. I figured others had a similar opinion... since the thread had been rated so low.

I'm sorry this was so hard for you to understand what gesture was "Between the lines."

What other gesture did you think I could have meant?

I'm sorry Pink, but if I can SUGGEST in ONE SENTENCE what takes 10 or so PARAGRAPHS to explain, I'll suggest it. ESPECIALLY when the suggestion has NOTHING to do with POLITICS.

There's your answer. Within the answer, if you listen to what I have SUGGESTED, you will see why I did not deem your question about "Reading Between The Lines" important, or relevant enough to answer... for a while.

There, all I wrote in this post could easily have been discovered by applying simple READING COMPREHENSION skills.

I appreciate your points about writing clearly but Pinky, an average Fifth Grader, MUST comprehend reading better than you want to.

Come on, he who lives in a glass house should not cast stones.

You want people to WRITE clearly.

People want you to COMPREHEND what you READ.

As a moderator, don't you think it is more important to address someone's issues in a post that to critique their writing style?

This is an international website, as you are well aware. Many people with different English ability come in here. It is IMPOSSIBLE to take everything, everyone says here literally. It is impossible to hold everyone here to such a high standard. Christ, most people here are fucked up on aomething RIGHT NOW!

It is my opinion that we, as mods, should do our best to understand what someone means in their post before replying to them... and if we do not understand, we should ask for clarification BEFORE offering opinion.

Thanks for asking.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: quarkyquasar]
    #3261786 -

Quote:
quarkyquasar said:
I find it offensive that just because the average American is not well informed by your standards that they should not vote.
I am a democrat.



I make no apologies, uninformed people should not be voting. It is pretty typical of your party to throw ignorant people at the polls knowing they will win more votes with through most empty promises, unrealistic generalities, and best haircuts, at the expense of those who don't know better.
An informed electorate is the best remedy to demagogery, which seems why Democrats seem to be so intent on getting the ignorant masses to the polls.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."

Edited by Divided_Sky (10/21/04 07:07 PM)

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Rose]
    #3262074 -

Okay. So now you are saying the comment on the hidden gesture was a joke. Either that or you are saying my ulterior motive in making the post was that I did it to slag Libbies. I'm still not sure which you wish me to believe.

You DEFINITELY should stop taking everything I say literally.

A handy pre-manufactured excuse for backtracking on anything you get caught on. I still fail to see how I can be shat upon by you for reading stuff into your posts that aren't there on the one hand and shat upon for taking what you say at face value on the other. Heads you win, tails I lose, eh?

And unlike others, I don't dislike people just because I disagree with them.

Neither do I. I don't dislike you, I just find your efforts to evade responsibility for what you say to be simultaneously amusing and frustrating.

Quote:
I could easily see a very Anti Liberal Bias in your post, and in the link you provided... despite your good intentions.


Then you read into it something that wasn't there -- in either my post or in the article I linked. I have read and re-read the article several times. Nowhere in it does Thomas ever even mention the word "Liberal" or "Democrat". Nowhere in my post do I ever mention "Liberal" or "Democrat". My entire point -- and Thomas's point -- is that there are a frightening number of people out there who haven't the faintest grasp of the issues, and in many cases believe exactly the opposite of the truth. Neither he nor I state or even imply that the group of uninformed/misinformed people contains more liberals than conservatives -- and the numbers he quotes prove that they can't all be liberals.

Here you are giving me shit for not reading things properly, when you yourself can't read either my post or the article I link. Thomas and I are not complaining about the number of liberal voters, we are complaining about the number of uninformed voters. Your hyper-sensitive "subtext" sniffer has led you to imagine all kinds of things that simply aren't there.

I appreciate your points about writing clearly but Pinky, an average Fifth Grader, MUST comprehend reading better than you want to.

The irony here is that the statement of yours is written so clearly that a fifth grader can easily comprehend it. There are no hidden meanings, no double meanings, no alternative interpretations, no subtext. Your statement was --

Quote:
He makes good points but he only use examples that make liberals look stupid.


You have yet to explain to us how anyone with average reading comprehension skills should be expected to divine that you didn't really mean that you believed he only used examples that make liberals look stupid.

Come on, he who lives in a glass house should not cast stones.

I haven't the faintest fucking idea what you are trying to get at here. Are you accusing me of writing unclearly?

People want you to COMPREHEND what you READ.

Please tell me how I was miscomprehending the meaning of the statement "He makes good points but he only use examples that make liberals look stupid." I would say I comprehended precisely what I read.

As a moderator, don't you think it is more important to address someone's issues in a post that to critique their writing style?

Ah, but there's the rub. I do address the issues. it's just that you deny what you wrote was really what you wrote. And I wasn't "critiquing" your writing style. There was nothing ambiguous about your statement, "He makes good points but he only use examples that make liberals look stupid." That is clear, direct, concise, and to the point. The only problem is that it is a completely inaccurate statement. I wasn't criticizing the style of the statement, but its content.

Many people with different English ability come in here.

And I make allowances for non-native English speakers such as Crobih. You, on the other hand, demonstrate a more than adequate command of your mother tongue.

It is my opinion that we, as mods, should do our best to understand what someone means in their post before replying to them... and if we do not understand, we should ask for clarification BEFORE offering opinion.

And how on earth was I supposed to know that when you make a simple declarative statement like, "He makes good points but he only use examples that make liberals look stupid," you actually meant something else? Fuck me, am I supposed to verify every single sentence in each of your posts? Give me a break!

The fact of the matter here is that there was no lack of reading comprehension on my part. What happened is that you got caught making a statement you couldn't support and you fell back on the "Golly, why can't you learn to read between the lines" argument.

That ain't debate. That's evasion.

And your attempt to paint me as the unreasonable party in this exchange is even lamer than the original evasion.

And as a parting comment, no I have never come across the "read between the lines" gesture/comment. Perhaps the fact that I have been living on a Caribbean island for the last seventeen years has something to do with this lapse in my understanding of modern hand gesture/comments.


pinky


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