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Why you MUST vote
    #3251335 -

The political ignorance of the average American voter is more vast than most of us posting here can imagine. See http://www.townhall.com/columnists/calthomas/ct20041018.shtml for just how ridiculous the situation really is. It's an eye-opening article, for sure.

Because of the fact that a huge number of the votes this election will be cast by people without a clue, it is critical that those who are even partially informed about the issues vote in order to counterbalance the essentially random votes of these clueless ones.

I urge all Americans who frequent this forum to vote. My preference would be that you vote for Badnarik, but I'd rather see each and every one of you vote -- even if it's *gag* for Kerry -- than to let the next leader of the US be chosen by those who are unaware that Congress passed and Bush signed into law a prescription drug benefit plan, or who think increases in domestic spending have not contributed significantly to the federal deficit, or who believe there was a net loss of jobs in the US in 2004.

There is no way to stop people that ignorant from voting -- all you can do is attempt to get as many informed voters to actually vote as you possibly can. Though I heartily disagree with the political positions of the majority of Americans posting in this forum, there is no denying that most of y'all are much better informed on the issues than probably three quarters or more of the rest of the people voting this year.

pinky


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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Phred]
    #3251404 -

Yes, get off your lazy, stoned asses and vote.

Don't give me this "I'm not voting 'cause I disagree with Bush and Kerry" bullshit, there are plenty of third party candidates out there.

Get to the polling station and vote.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Phred]
    #3251444 -

Even if you wake up election day and are still somewhat undecided (as I probably will be), go out and vote. If you don't vote, you lose all rights to bitch about the next four years.


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what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Phred]
    #3251458 -

You'd be amazed how many of my friends and family members that are a bit upset because i'm voting third party, it's kinda funny....and sad.


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Gijith]
    #3251497 -

Gijith, I just watched your new sig and all I can say is you had damn well better be female.

pinky


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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Phred]
    #3251504 -

....Not that there's anything wrong with it being a dude.... :smirk:


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Gijith]
    #3251537 -

Gijith said:
Even if you wake up election day and are still somewhat undecided (as I probably will be), go out and vote. If you don't vote, you lose all rights to bitch about the next four years.


as if theres even anything left to bitch about now..given the inevitability of a bush win...


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Phred]
    #3251554 -

If you don't know who or why you're voting, then please don't. That's my opinion.


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Happiness is a warm gun...

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: unbeliever]
    #3251567 -

If you don't yet know who to vote for, vote Badnarik. Why? He's the only presidential candidate dedicated to the repeal of the drug prohibition laws in the US and finally putting an end to the WoD.

Legal shrooms, people.

pinky


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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Phred]
    #3251577 -

pinksharkmark said:
If you don't yet know who to vote for, vote Badnarik. Why? He's the only presidential candidate dedicated to the repeal of the drug prohibition laws in the US and finally putting an end to the WoD.

Legal shrooms, people.

pinky


Wrong. Single issue voting is almost as bad as voting without a clue. Not quite, but close. I recommend trying as best as possible to do as much research on the candidates who might interest you. If you find one you think you like, one who supports the same basic principles that you do.. vote for them. Don't get caught up in political histrionics.


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Happiness is a warm gun...

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Phred]
    #3251590 -

:smirk:

I blame the admins. The original version wasn't nearly as gay (or at least the gay elements were balanced out with straight ones). But it was also a few megs. Cutting it to 64k was a bitch.

But yeah, now that I look at this one... maybe I need some therapy.


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what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Annapurna1]
    #3251630 -

Annapurna1 said:
as if theres even anything left to bitch about now..given the inevitability of a bush win...


Why do you give up so easily? Ever heard of fighting the good fight?


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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: unbeliever]
    #3251665 -

unbeliever writes:

Single issue voting is almost as bad as voting without a clue. Not quite, but close.

Of course. There are many other great reasons to vote for Badnarik as well, and no downside to voting for him, but if someone isn't voting cuz they don't know who to vote for or why, he's the closest to being an all upside, no downside candidate on the slate.

My point is that very few of the posters in this forum are anywhere near as ignorant of the issues as the majority of American voters. Though they may not be perfectly informed on every single issue, they sure beat the majority of those who will vote this year.

Anyone who has spent a month reading the posts in this forum regularly is probably better informed than 90% of those who will vote. As I said before, I disagree with many of the conclusions a lot of y'all somehow manage to come up with from reading that information, and some folks here who consume a steady diet of rense.com, Alex Jones, Noam Chomsky, Robert Fisk, Jonathan Pilger, Michael Moore et al will inevitably vote for the worst possible candidate, but at least even the devotees of the barking moonbats do discuss issues rather than merely absorbing a vague sense of them through osmosis, or choosing to vote the Kerry ticket because Edwards has beautiful hair and Kerry knows how to snowboard.

pinky


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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Phred]
    #3251667 -

If there were more than 2 realistic candidates and there were some actual major differences then I can see why you might have a point but as there are 2 choices who are both bankrolled by the major corporations I really dont see how it makes any difference whether the voter is "educated" or not. Puppet shows are for children after all.


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Always Smi2le

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: GazzBut]
    #3251679 -

So vote for someone other than Kerry or Bush.

pinky


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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Phred]
    #3251721 -

Not a surprise. People are stupid and many seem to vote for a party because "that's the party they have always been".

There should be a test to vote.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Phred]
    #3251848 -

pinksharkmark said:
unbeliever writes:

Single issue voting is almost as bad as voting without a clue. Not quite, but close.

Of course. There are many other great reasons to vote for Badnarik as well, and no downside to voting for him, but if someone isn't voting cuz they don't know who to vote for or why, he's the closest to being an all upside, no downside candidate on the slate.



In your opinion... However, for people who think that libertarianism is an inherently flawed ideal, voting for Badnarik is not a reflection of an honest vote. There are plenty of othe good 3rd party candidates out there for people who want to think and vote outside the box (read: the duopoly of American politics). That said, I'm still voting for Kerry because I like enough of his ideas and specifically dislike how the incumbant has handled his responsiblity, to the point where I feel it is important to remove the chimp. Even if it means not voting for the candidate I would most like to see win, but realize doesn't have a chance.

Again, IRV, Condorcet or something similar would be a really nice upgrade to the American voting system.


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Happiness is a warm gun...

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Phred]
    #3251893 -

I detest Bush and am not thrilled with Kerry, but would not vote for Badnarik just to "send a message" even though he is my candidate of choice, as he has ZERO chance of winning.

The whole idea of voting for people (hundreds of issues in one vote - and your candidate is not legally bound to his campaign promises) and NOT issues, makes it clear that we are not even close to a democracy.

This is why people get apathetic and fail to vote. This will be my first election since I voted "against" Nixon.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Swami]
    #3251916 -

Quote:
not even close to a democracy.


The US is not, was not, and was never intended to be a democracy.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #3251972 -

But Bush wants Iraq to be a democracy "just like the US of A".


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Swami]
    #3251978 -

I don't recall responding to Bush.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: unbeliever]
    #3251987 -

unbeliever said:
However, for people who think that libertarianism is an inherently flawed ideal...


I find it funny that people who will not vote libertarian because they find libertarianism a flawed ideal* will vote for the lesser of two evils. Are the Democratic party's 'ideals' (not that they have a consistent philosophy except pandering for votes) perfect?

*Libertarians realize more than any other political group that utopia is not an option, that there can be as many ideas of 'the ideal' as there are human beings. Realizing the fallibility of man and the possibilities that ever larger and more powerful governments represent for corruption and bringing harm to their fellow man, all they strive for is a diminution of the initiation of force in human affairs.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Phred]
    #3252022 -

Quote:
Because of the fact that a huge number of the votes this election will be cast by people without a clue, it is critical that those who are even partially informed about the issues vote in order to counterbalance the essentially random votes of these clueless ones.




seems to me like a justification for NOT voting. For every one of me, there are ten of them.

what's the fucking point? the idiots are going to get their way whether I vote or not.

btw, pinky, why are you so interested in the outcome of this election? I thought you were a Canadian national who lived in South America.

Edited by DoctorJ (10/19/04 03:15 PM)

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: DoctorJ]
    #3252162 -

Don't vote if you aren't informed. It's that simple. I don't want a bunch of ignoramuses deciding the government of this country because P. Diddy and Hillary Duff said it's cool. To hell with Rock the Vote, Vote or Die and all that bullshit. This election really isn't THAT important that we need retards off the street swarming to the polls in droves.

Of course the Democrats have the most vested in throwing uninformed people at the polls because statistically more politically inactive or uninformed Americans identify themselves as Democrats. It's sad that they have to resort to getting as many ignorant people to vote in hopes of winning.


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1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3252516 -

Most of the hoopla in Florida last time was about people who were too stupid to figure out the voting card, saying they voted for somebody else when they wanted to vote for fuckface Gore but were confused. It is no surprise to me that the Democrats suffer when the retarded are disenfranchised.


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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Swami]
    #3254672 -

Quote:
The whole idea of voting for people (hundreds of issues in one vote - and your candidate is not legally bound to his campaign promises) and NOT issues, makes it clear that we are not even close to a democracy.
 



:thumbup:
Personality politics will be looked upon as highly amusing to future generations.


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Always Smi2le

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Phred]
    #3254698 -

I'd like to know who the jackasses were that gave this thread a 1 shroom rating for encouraging people to vote. Must be those people you're talking about that haven't got a clue.

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: unbeliever]
    #3254731 -

It is a shame Cal Thomas is not Fair and Balanced. He makes good points but he only use examples that make liberals look stupid.

How 'bout the percentage of voters who can find England on a map?

or

The number of people who believe Iraq was involved in 9-11?

Still, Pinky, thanks for the getsure... I just sense a hidden gesture between the lines.


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Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Stein]
    #3255025 -

Quote:
I'd like to know who the jackasses were that gave this thread a 1 shroom rating for encouraging people to vote.



Why?? Voting once every four years is a sham.


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Always Smi2le

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Phred]
    #3255089 -

"Are you my stunt double?"
[/image]

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: GazzBut]
    #3255231 -

GazzBut said:
Quote:
I'd like to know who the jackasses were that gave this thread a 1 shroom rating for encouraging people to vote.



Why?? Voting once every four years is a sham.


Only so long as people continue voting for the lesser of two evils.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: silversoul7]
    #3255561 -

What difference would that make? You'd still have one vote every four years to register your opinion on a multitude of issues. some people are just too easily pleased.


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Always Smi2le

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Rose]
    #3255648 -

Cervantes writes:

It is a shame Cal Thomas is not Fair and Balanced. He makes good points but he only use examples that make liberals look stupid.

No he doesn't. He makes no implication that only Liberals are unaware of Bush's "free meds for the wizened" bill. As a matter of fact, he makes no mention of the political breakdown of any of the groups in the examples he gives. Clearly since some of the numbers are as high as seventy per cent, and America is nowhere near seventy per cent Liberal, there are a whole hell of a lot of uninformed conservatives in America as well.

Still, Pinky, thanks for the getsure... I just sense a hidden gesture between the lines.

And you will note that I even told people I would prefer to see them vote for *gag* the treasonous, self-professed war criminal John F Kerry than to sit at home and let people as dumb as the ones Thomas describes decide who will be the next president of the US.

Look, you may not agree with all my political views, but I know you give me credit for having more intelligence than a hamster. I am well aware that if every regular American contributor to this forum were to vote, the votes for Kerry would far outnumber the votes for Badnarik -- or for Bush or Nader or Comeho. Probably the Kerry votes would outnumber all the rest put together. Just what byzantine "hidden gesture" do you think is the motivation for urging all of y'all to vote?

Can we say "paranoia"?


pinky


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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Phred]
    #3255775 -

Mr. Literal,

You talk apples, I talk oranges.

I'm hungry for a fruitbowl.

If you disagree with EVERYTHING I ever say, it gets hard to tell when you are really disagreeing and, when you are just being petty.

Cal Thomas fills in for Bill O'Reiley, whenever O'Reiley takes time off from the "Factor" to harass female employees. I've watched him several times, he is more Right leaning than O'Reilley.

Your link represents his work well.


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Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Rose]
    #3256166 -

Cervantes writes:

Mr. Literal,

You talk apples, I talk oranges.

Not at all. Your contention was that Thomas raised only points that make Liberals look bad. I demonstrated this wasn't the case.

If you disagree with EVERYTHING I ever say, it gets hard to tell when you are really disagreeing and, when you are just being petty.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

Look, I go out of my way to urge people to vote, knowing full well that if everyone here followed that advice, a man I despise will receive more votes. This you call petty? You really are too much sometimes.

As for the "Mr. Literal" dig, here's a truth you'd do well to remember -- words have meaning. If you don't really mean what you write, don't write it. Write something else. Don't get all huffy because people capable of comprehending the meaning of your statements but incapable of performing a Vulcan mind meld to determine that you really want a fruit cup rather than an orange respond to what you actually say.

If you had read the article I linked, you would have seen that Thomas isn't coming anywhere near claiming Libbies are less informed than Conservatives. I find it revealing you believe the few examples I mentioned reflect badly on Libbies.


pinky


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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Phred]
    #3256347 -

I am well aware that if every regular American contributor to this forum were to vote, the votes for Kerry would far outnumber the votes for Badnarik -- or for Bush or Nader or Comeho. Probably the Kerry votes would outnumber all the rest put together.

Evidence? This thread hasn't exactly been snowed under with Kerry voters has it.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Xlea321]
    #3256389 -

Refer to any of the innumerable polls done in this forum alone over the last few months.


pinky


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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Phred]
    #3256393 -

So is there a poll that only "regular american contributors to this forum"? voted in? Do you have the link?



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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Phred]
    #3256471 -

Quote:
Pinky Said:
As for the "Mr. Literal" dig, here's a truth you'd do well to remember -- words have meaning. If you don't really mean what you write, don't write it.



I just want to make one thing clear.

Language is imperfect.

Most words have MORE THAN ONE meaning. If you take everything literally, you can easily miss the intended message. At the very least, you miss nuance.

I'm only trying to help you look smart, Pink.

I know, you are trying to make people better writers,

But,

The Shroomery is a mushroom website. It requires people to write about things that are not easily put into words. People here, often get good at writing pretty quickly.

People learn how to convey their ideas pretty well, after they have to explain the difference in potency between fresh and dry Mexicana sclerotia... in a Mushroom Forum.

It is annoying to many Shroomerites to be held to your "Litteral" standards. Shroomerites don't need English class in here, they want to dabate!

Nobody here (not you... not me) is Charles Dickens (or even Hemmingway)...

I know language is imperfect. I think I read it somewhere. :wink:

If you only look at the litteral meanings of words, how could you ever explain ego loss... let alone Bush's idiotic tax cut for the rich?


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Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Rose]
    #3256535 -

Cervantes writes:

Language is imperfect.

Most words have more than one meaning. If you take everything literally, you can miss the intended message.

It saddens me to have to explain this to you.

Okay, then. Assuming the imperfections in the English language obscured your intended point, here's your chance to reword the statements of yours I addressed. Feel free to restate them in as many words as you wish. Use a whole page if necessary.

Quote:
He makes good points but he only use examples that make liberals look stupid.


My imperfect understanding of imperfect language led me to believe you were criticizing him for only using examples which made liberals look stupid. My bad. What did you really mean when you wrote that? Take as much space as you feel you require. I'd ask you to identify which examples he gave that make liberals (but not conservatives) look stupid, but I guess I'd better not press that question before we determine that is really what you meant to say.

Here's the other one I responded to:

Quote:
I just sense a hidden gesture between the lines.


My imperfect understanding of imperfect language led me to believe you were suspicious of my motives -- that I had an ulterior motive for urging everyone to vote. My bad. What did you really mean when you wrote that? Take as much space as you feel you require. I'd ask you what you believe my hidden gesture might have been, but I guess I'd better not press that question before we determine that is really what you meant to say.

pinky


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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Phred]
    #3256589 -

As for that last post. I sense annoyance, although I didn't literally read, "Annoyance" in your words. The way you chose to arrange the words in your rebuttal... you seemed a little annoyed. I also detected a little anger, frustration and perhaps a touch of territoriality.

Of course I could be wrong, but where's the fun in taking a post like THAT literally?

Let's get back on topic.

ROCK THE VOTE!


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Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Rose]
    #3256592 -

Most words have MORE THAN ONE meaning. If you take everything literally, you can easily miss the intended message. At the very least, you miss nuance.

EXACTLY

for example

instead of employing the northern alliance (remember them?) as military proxies, what if we sent 100,000 US troops immediately after 9.11 to secure the borders of afghanistan?

this statement can be read a number of ways...

a hyperliteralist would see this:

instead of employing the northern alliance (remember them?) as military proxies, what if we sent 100,000 US troops immediately after 9.11 to secure the borders of afghanistan?

and he would, predictably, get himself hopelessly entangled on the minor details while completely missing the intended meaning, which was this:

instead of employing the northern alliance (remember them?) as military proxies, what if we sent 100,000 US troops immediately after 9.11 to secure the borders of afghanistan?

there really is no need for mind-reading or guesswork, as the meaning was/is quite clear to those able to read. only someone who does not want to deal with the actual point being raised would latch on and nitpick some minor detail. there are two possibilities here:
the reader is
a) unable to read and comprehend what is written
or
b) intentionally engaging in dishonest debating tactics

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Rose]
    #3256602 -

:rotfl:

There is no nuance on the internet. One can only judge what you mean by the words you use.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #3256616 -

:ooo:

I thought that was why Al Gore invented emoticons.

:smirk:


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Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #3256639 -

One can only judge what you mean by the words you use.

true, but one should be able to read a sentence and extract the pertinent information.
one should be able to determine what piece of information is relevant to the point being made, and what is not relevant to the point being made.
it's basic reading comprehension.

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Rose]
    #3256663 -

:smile:

Now that was good!


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: infidelGOD]
    #3256674 -

Foolish. When someone can't write what they mean, it should come as no surprise when those very words are questioned or pointed out to be incorrect.

I fear for the future when "close enough" is close enough.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: infidelGOD]
    #3256693 -

infidelGOD, if your point was not that US troops should have been immediately sent to Afghanistan to secure its borders, why did you bother specifying that US troops should be immediately sent to secure the borders of Afghanistan?

Why not write that they be used to

a) search Afghanistan's interior, or
b) to destroy enemy strongholds, or
c) to intimidate potential informants?

Why did you take the time to include the description of what their task was to be? I cannot help but note that you repeatedly (and inaccurately) chastise me for not responding to the things various posters "take the time and effort" to include in their presumably carefully reasoned posts. I had therefore assumed you had taken the time and effort to specify the task of the troops (and kudos to you for being specific rather than adopting the vague approach used by so many others here) because you felt it was an important part of the point you were making. I didn't realize I was supposed to just skim over that part and focus instead only on the bolded part of your statement. Could you in future please bold the parts of your statements which you believe have value and leave the "filler" in plain text so I can determine which parts you mean and which parts are just chaff?

Thank you.

pinky


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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Phred]
    #3256814 -

as I said to you numerous times, the exact number of troops and the exact plan of deployment was irrelevent to the point I was making.. and if you read that statement carefully, you would have realized that. I just threw out a nice round number.. and predictably, you latched onto it and would not let it go, EVEN AFTER THE MEANING WAS CLARIFIED BEYOND ALL DOUBT IN SUBSEQUENT POSTS.

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: infidelGOD]
    #3256890 -

Ah. The classic "you should have known what I meant" defense.

Priceless.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #3256911 -

ah the old 'I am unable to comprehend what I read, so I want you to spoonfeed me' defense.

priceless.

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: infidelGOD]
    #3257015 -

The problem for you is that some of us do understand what we read.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #3257099 -

I'm sooooo tempted to use my mod powers and change Your "Do" into a "Don't" Luvdem.

Gaaaaaaaa,

I don't have the heart!

but...

Just in case this last statement was misunderstood...

(* Disclaimer * I do not mean to say I don't have A heart. If by "Heart" you mean a physical, pumping muscle that is inside my chest moving fresh, oxygenated blood through my body, I do have A heart, if indeed, by heart, you mean a physical heart. I was just IMPLYING that I know better than to edit someone else's post. Even though I can, I know it is not right to change somebody's post, after they write it. If I did change your post, I could not sleep at night. This is why I do not "Have the heart" to edit your post.)


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #3257120 -

:lol:

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Rose]
    #3257223 -

You won't change it because your right. Plus that would be honest.

EDIT: How childish for a mod. Grow the fuck up.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

Edited by luvdemshrooms (10/20/04 06:21 PM)

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: infidelGOD]
    #3257384 -

infidelGOD writes:

as I said to you numerous times, the exact number of troops and the exact plan of deployment was irrelevent to the point I was making..

Let me get this straight.

1) If I take your words at face value, I am at fault for being too literal, for not grasping the implied nuance behind them.

2) If I don't take your words at face value, I am at fault for reading into your words something that isn't there.

3) If I respond to a point you spent time and effort making (i.e. the seal the border dealie) I am at fault for making you expend more time and effort backpedalling from the point you made.

4) If I don't respond to a point you made time and effort making, I am at fault for ignoring the time and effort you expended.

I think I'm starting to get the hang of this now. Now matter which possible way I respond, I am always at fault.

I'll bear that in mind.

pinky


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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #3257421 -

Abuse of mod powers is fun.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: silversoul7]
    #3257446 -

We all have to do it once.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Phred]
    #3257468 -

If I respond to a point you spent time and effort making (i.e. the seal the border dealie)


this statement tells me that you still don't get it...

that was NOT the point I spent the time and effort making (how many times do I have to say this?), and I made that abundantly clear in my subsequent posts (so you have no excuse for continuing to misrepresent my position). if you recall, YOU were the one who came up with the ridiculous "roughly seventeen three man teams per mile" seal the border scenario. if you are unclear on something, instead of making stuff up and MISREPRESENTING someone's position, you could just ASK. that's what normal, reasonable people do.

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: infidelGOD]
    #3257652 -

No, you don't get it. You made a post. It was replied to in a literal manner. You want people to know what you mean rather than what you say.

Pinky's last post nails it.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: silversoul7]
    #3257661 -

silversoul7 said:
Abuse of mod powers is fun.


Yes. Rather childish and more than a bit pathetic.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Rose]
    #3257669 -

Cervantes said:
We all have to do it once.


No actually, no-one has to do.

How OTD-ish.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #3257711 -

Yeah... lol

Those were good times...

BTW My OTD post % is 0.17%

Yours is... wait for it... 0.32%

YOU WIN!

Takes one to know one, Mr. Litteral!


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Rose]
    #3257813 -

Can you do math? Or is that too literal for you?

Divide it by the time since registration.

And since the point yet again sails right past you, it was the maturity level where you failed.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #3257931 -

Since OTD is on a 3 month archive system, I'm pretty sure the % is from the last 3 months. I could be wrong... but still. You are winning....

.32% of 11,000 is .32% of 11,000. .32% of 3000... is still .32%.

.16% of 11,000 would be less than .32% of 11,000. .16% of 3,000 would STILL be less that .32% of 3,000.

If I have roughly .16% posts in otd, and you have .32% posts in OTD, you will ALWAYS make more posts in OTD per 100 than I.

Percentages are percentages. You'd still make more posts on average, in OTD... math wiz... either in the last 3 months, or in your entire time at The Shroomery.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Rose]
    #3257956 -

Yes, and the average guy would know the figure you posted is for three months.

The fact still remains they picked a childish person to be a mod.

Grow up. The baiting won't work.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #3258531 -

Everybody plays the fool... there's no exception to the rule.

The Neville Brothers said that.

Politics isn't always drama. Most of the time, from where I sit, it is pretty silly...

... or literal. I mean Literal.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Phred]
    #3258906 -

If I take your words at face value, I am at fault for being too literal, for not grasping the implied nuance behind them

Then let us take your words at "face value". You claimed there were "innumerable" polls that proved "regular american contributors to this forum" would vote Kerry. I have asked you for a link. Please provide it.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #3259727 -

No, you don't get it. You made a post. It was replied to in a literal manner. You want people to know what you mean rather than what you say.

it's not my problem if people like yourself and pinky lack the basic reading comprehension to understand the meaning behind what is written.

and as I already said (apparently you had trouble reading and comprehending this part as well), I CLARIFIED my point in subsequent posts, so there can be no excuse for continuing to respond to a point I DIDN'T make. it is misrepresentation and deception. plain and simple.

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: infidelGOD]
    #3259749 -

This shouldn't even be an argument.

It is so ridiculous.

Pinky, Luvdem,

Ask any famous writer about SUBTEXT. It exists. www.google.com is a good place to start looking. www.dictionary.com is another.

Then I suggest you look at the works of Anton Chekhov and Tennessee Williams, two playwrights (and short story writers) famous for their subtext.

Pre-Freud, you'd have a literal case for literal speech... but not anymore.

You may want to catch up, and join the 20th century before the rest of us enter the 22nd.

or...

Tonight we're gonna' debate like its 1899!


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Rose]
    #3259837 -

So because you a several others here are unable to grasp the meaning of words, we all should be?

:rotfl:

With an attitude like that I suspect your modship here shall be the only bright spot on your resume. And you suck at that.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Rose]
    #3259845 -

Of course it shouldn't even be an argument.

You guys (you and infidelGOD in this current case) say something that shows you haven't thought things all the way through, and when called on it refuse to admit there was anything wrong with either the point you are trying to make or with the way you chose to phrase that point. Instead, you accuse the ones responding of not grasping what you really meant. That is not debate, that is evasion.

As for your lame "subtext" justification, infidelGOD gets pissed when I do anything other than stick to the bare bones of what he wants to see discussed -- see his categorization of my M.A.S.H. reference I used to illustrate a point as a "tangent" and "minutiae".

Just what the fuck will satisfy you people? Seriously -- I am not being facetious here -- please tell us what the fuck is the correct way to respond to very clearly worded sentences without being accused of "putting words in your mouth", "going off on tangents", "reading what you want to hear into my statements", etc.

If you are incapable of expressing yourself clearly, get yourself a ghostwriter, don't post at all, or get used to the fact that most people reading this forum understand that words have meaning.

You may disagree with a lot of the things I post here, but no one has ever said that I don't make myself clear. There is no ambiguity in the posts I make, no need to guess what I am trying to say, no need to unearth some kind of "subtext".

I would like to see some kind of response -- clearly phrased -- to some of the points I have raised in this thread you have seen fit to ignore.

1) Why do you believe the statistics referenced by Thomas only make liberals look stupid?

2) What "hidden gesture between the lines" do you believe I am making?

When I first asked you to answer these questions, your immediate reaction was to claim that words have more than one meaning, shades of nuance, blah blah blah.

Here's your chance. When you said Cal Thomas used only examples that made liberals look stupid, what is the alternate meaning of the words you used? Which of the words in your statement --

Quote:
...he only use examples that make liberals look stupid.


-- do you believe has an "other meaning" I am missing?

By "he", did you mean someone other than Cal Thomas?
By "only", did you mean something like "mostly"?
By "liberal" did you mean someone other than liberals?
By "stupid" did you mean "smart"?

I fail to see what kind of "subtext" could be embedded in "... he only uses examples that make liberals look stupid." But maybe I'm too stupid to grasp the subtext. Here's your chance. Spell it out for this poor dimbulb literalist.

pinky


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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Phred]
    #3259868 -

It is hard to debate, when both sides play by different rules.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Rose]
    #3259875 -

Cervantes said:
It is hard to debate, when both sides play by different rules.


I beg you.... never become a teacher.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #3259887 -

Quote:
luvdemshrooms said:
So because you a several others here are unable to grasp the meaning of words, we all should be?

:rotfl:

With an attitude like that I suspect your modship here shall be the only bright spot on your resume. And you suck at that.



OK, now we're even. I edited your post (a joke I swear)... you called me a "Suck"y mod. I did not intend to hurt your feelings Luv. We were joking with each other earlier in the thread, I figured you still had a sense of humor when I (jokingly) edited your post. I made no seceret it was a joke. I can't help it if you edited out most of my humor (humor's relative), when you re-edited your precious post back to your liking.

From now on, Luv, I'm gonna' abide by the forum rules (like I said before you deleted it from your post). Please offer me the same respect.

I will only tollerate your flaming ONCE.

If you have problems with my modding abilities, please phrase it better next time, pm an admin, or pm me and we can discuss it in private.

There, three ways you can avoid being banned for flaming me in the future.

And before you say this post is baiting you, look at your last post (The one I quoted). Who is baiting who? Really?


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Rose]
    #3259906 -

Flame?

:rotfl:

Saying you suck as a mod is a flame?

Let's ask Geo or Papaver if that's a flame... shall we?

EDIT: I've asked for permission to post the reply. I'll let you know the answer. But if you can't handle "you suck as a mod", then you sure don't seem to be the man for the job.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

Edited by luvdemshrooms (10/21/04 09:57 AM)

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #3259942 -

Are you REALLY asking me to consider what you MEANT rather than what you literally said? That would go against your ENTIRE ARGUMENT in this thread.

Be careful, don't flip-flop.

From Rono's pinned post in this forum.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/1333585/an/0/page/0#1333585

Quote:

1) NO FLAMING ...if you can't state your case or refute someone else's case without calling them "stupid" or an "idiot"..etc...Then don't bother posting here. This forum is for intelligent debate, not to try to belittle someone that doesn't think like you. THIS WILL BE STRICTLY ENFORCED ... If you have been warned already, you will receive a temporary ban, if you continue to flame you will be banned permanently...choose your words wisely or suffer the consequences.



Yeah, it was a flame.

It doesn't matter how you look at it... literally or figuratively...

I'm thick skinned enough to handle it (See? Suck, sucky, suckish, suckwad!!), but if being called an "Idiot" is considered a flame in this forum, or being called "Stupid" is considered flaming... saying I SUCK as a mod is right in line with the examples Rono gave.

I must be consistant with my interpretation of flaming, and to ignore what you said, would not be consistant with my past actions as mod.

As a mod, it is my job to interpret the rules of the forum. As a pedestrian, it is your job to abide by the moderator's interpretation of the rules.

People have been banned from this forum for making MUCH more docile comments than yours. And their comments were not always aimed at a moderator.

Ask Pinky.

I'm just following his lead.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Rose]
    #3260159 -

Yes, go by what I meant since I said exactly what I meant to say. Here as promised is the response....

Quote:
Personal opinions are always encouraged, however it is the context in which they are written that determines whether or not they are ultimately appropriate. Going off-topic in an on-topic thread to tell someone you dislike them is usually not appropriate, of course this is also forum dependant and subjective to the interpretation(s) of the moderators at hand.

Use your best judgement and feel free to post my words, but realize that you must take responsibility for any and all consequences arising from your expression and that I am not telling you "everything will be allright" .

Take it easy,
~mike


As it was in direct response to you altering my reply. I stand by my statement AND the follow up... if you consider that a flame.... you most definately are not the "man" for the job. It is not the job for you.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

Edited by luvdemshrooms (10/21/04 11:11 AM)

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #3260220 -

Quote:
Geo said:
Going off-topic in an on-topic thread to tell someone you dislike them is usually not appropriate, of course this is also forum dependant and subjective to the interpretation(s) of the moderators at hand.




Quote:
luvdemshrooms said:
As it was in direct response to you altering my reply. I stand by my statement AND the follow up... if you consider that a flame.... you most definately are not the "man" for the job. It is not the job for you.



By all means stand by that statement, but you'd be wise to let it go before you slip up and say something you regret.

Sounds like Geo agrees.

I'm just going to say it once more.

We are even.

I edited your post (as a joke), then you flamed me.

Water under the bridge.

Sorry I hurt your feelings... don't worry about my feelings... I'm fine.

In the future, if you continue flaming, you will not be as lucky. Why? Because, next time, I will not give you a leg to stand on.

Do you understand?

I'm glad we had this discussion.

Thanks,
Cervantes


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


Edited by Rose (10/21/04 11:32 AM)

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Rose]
    #3260230 -

Cervantes writes:

It is hard to debate, when both sides play by different rules.

It is indeed. Please tell us what rules you are following, because they bear no relation to rules of debate I've ever come across.

When you get a minute, you might deign to answer these questions:

1) Why do you believe the statistics referenced by Thomas only make liberals look stupid?

2) What "hidden gesture between the lines" do you believe I am making?

When you said Cal Thomas used only examples that made liberals look stupid, what is the alternate meaning of the words you used? Which of the words in your statement --

Quote:
...he only use examples that make liberals look stupid.


-- do you believe has an "other meaning" I am missing?

By "he", did you mean someone other than Cal Thomas?
By "only", did you mean something like "mostly"?
By "liberal" did you mean someone other than liberals?
By "stupid" did you mean "smart"?

Thanks.


pinky


--------------------

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Rose]
    #3260233 -

Sure I understand. You make statements, don't stand by them, claim people should know what you mean, alter posts and then whine when called on it. You then resort to threats.

What's not to understand.

Get a job you can handle. Moderating is not that job.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #3260239 -

Let's see how well I can handle this job...

Luvdem,

Get on topic. I will too as soon as this post is made.

This is your final warning.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Phred]
    #3260308 -

Quote:
pinksharkmark said:
Cervantes writes:

It is hard to debate, when both sides play by different rules.

It is indeed. Please tell us what rules you are following, because they bear no relation to rules of debate I've ever come across.





Review this thread.

I'm not going to re-repeat myself just to amuse you.

Quote:

When you get a minute, you might deign to answer these questions:

1) Why do you believe the statistics referenced by Thomas only make liberals look stupid?




OK, here's a few quotes from Cal.

* 70 percent of respondents did not know that Congress recently passed and President Bush signed a Medicare prescription drug benefit

YAY! Bush gave us drugs!

but

Most people believe there is no UNIVERSAL health care...

Stupid Liberals!

* 58 percent said they knew "nothing" or "very little" about the controversial USA Patriot Act, despite a slew of TV commercials by the American Civil Liberties Union denouncing it.

Sounds to me like Cal suggests,

The Patriot act is GOOD!

and

The ACLU is EVIL!

Anybody who thinks otherwise is WRONG.

Thanks Cal for enlightening us.

* For example, 61 percent believe that there has been a net loss of jobs in 2004,

OOPS! After 3 years of job loss, I guess people didn't notice that this year was a LITTLE better.

YAY Bush!

Thanks Cal!

* 58 percent believe that the administration sees a link between Saddam Hussein and 9/11

Cal is suggesting that Bush and Cheney certainly never said anything of the sort... connecting 9-11 with Iraq. This must be a Liberal conspiracy.

There aren't any quotes out there that suggest Bush saw a link between 9-11 and Iraq... are there?

* 57 percent believe that increases in domestic spending have not contributed significantly to the current federal budget deficit.

Well, OK, that one DOES make the Bush administration look bad.

I guess you're right Pinky, Cal Thomas is Fair and Balanced.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Rose]
    #3260391 -

Cervantes writes:

OK, here's a few quotes from Cal.

* 70 percent of respondents did not know that Congress recently passed and President Bush signed a Medicare prescription drug benefit

YAY! Bush gave us drugs!

but

Most people believe there is no UNIVERSAL health care?

Stupid Liberals!

And where does Cal Thomas say that only liberals responded to the survey?

* 58 percent said they knew "nothing" or "very little" about the controversial USA Patriot Act, despite a slew of TV commercials by the American Civil Liberties Union denouncing it.

Sounds to me like Cal suggests,

The Patriot act is GOOD

and

The ACLU is EVIL!

Anybody who thinks otherwise is WRONG.

Thanks Cal for enlightening us.

Actually, Cal expressed no opinion either way. All he pointed out was that 58% of Americans (not 58% of American liberals -- 58% of Americans) said they knew nothing or very little about the Ptriot Act.

* For example, 61 percent believe that there has been a net loss of jobs in 2004,

OOPS! After 3 years of job loss, I guess people didn't notice that this year was a LITTLE better.

YAY Bush!

Thanks Cal!

Again, how does this simple statement make liberals look stupid? Are conservatives not also concerned about losing their jobs? I hate to have to point this out yet again, but since less than 38% of Americans describe themselves as liberals, a survey of Americans in which 61% of the respondents give the same answer necessarily will include many conservatives.

No point performing this exercise for the other two -- it's mere variations on a theme. Someone used to looking for "subtext" in your reaction might think the reason you -- as a self-described liberal -- immediately assumed Thomas chose only examples which make liberals look stupid is that you held all the same misperceptions he mentions. It's a good thing I don't go looking for subtext, huh?

Speaking of subtext, though, I remain curious as to which "hidden gesture between the lines" you believe I was making. I guess I'll just have to deal with having my curiosity unsatisfied.

Vote Badnarik!



pinky


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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Phred]
    #3260408 -

It is truely frustrating when I answer your questions, only to have you ask them again.

I sense a pattern.

I know you are trying to make ME look stupid.

I'm afraid your tactic is backfiring.


6 days Pinky! 6 days we've been having this discussion. I know some of the posts were lost, doesn't change the fact... this is getting old Mr. Literal.


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Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Phred]
    #3260410 -

Now now pinky, it's not what he says.... it's what he means!


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Rose]
    #3260457 -

Cervantes writes:

It is truely frustrating when I answer your questions, only to have you ask them again.

Sorry you are frustrated, but try to imagine my frustration in trying to get you to answer the questions. Despite your protestations, you haven't answered either of the two questions. You have danced tangentially all around the first one, but you haven't answered it. Why do you say Thomas's examples make only liberals look stupid?

The second one you have (again) ignored completely.

If you don't want to answer either of them, just say so.

But don't forget to vote. For Badnarik, please.


pinky


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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Phred]
    #3260545 -

I replied to your first questions... about Cal Thomas... multiple times... Scroll up.

I answered your question with quotes from Cal Thomas' essay.

I can't help it if you don't remember replying the post I am referring to.

You did.

As for your second question:

2) What "hidden gesture between the lines" do you believe I am making?

I was explaining to unbeliever why this thread got at least one, "1 shroom" rating, when I said it.

Here's the quote:

Quote:
Cervantes said:
It is a shame Cal Thomas is not Fair and Balanced. He makes good points but he only use(d) examples that make liberals look stupid.

How 'bout the percentage of voters who can find England on a map?

or

The number of people who believe Iraq was involved in 9-11?

Still, Pinky, thanks for the gesture... I just sense a hidden gesture between the lines.



I'd like to think you are smart enough to figure out what I meant by that "Hidden gesture" comment.

If you are really losing sleep over it, ask someone else what they think I meant.

Make sure they read the WHOLE thread first.


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Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Rose]
    #3260571 -

Cervantes said:
I know you are trying to make ME look stupid.



No, no thats not it. I think you're doing a pretty good job of doing that yourself.

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Stein]
    #3260576 -

Ok, let's keep this on topic.

How 'bout adding something to your statement, like... oh... I dunno... evidence, links, quotes...

ANYTHING that is on topic would be fine.

Kthx


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Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Phred]
    #3260796 -

I find it offensive that just because the average American is not well informed by your standards that they should not vote.
I am a democrat.
I voted already by absentee ballot along democratic party lines.
I have followed the national election very close, and my local senate and congressional race as well, but not as close.
But when you vote it is not just for president as anyone who HAS voted will know. And you mean to say you know who is the better coroner, sheriff, or DA in your local area?
Do you really care?
I think many of the people you talk down to don't care that much...but they do care about the big issues. That is why people register along one party or another.

I believe in high taxes, big government, weaker corporations.
I am pro-choice, Pro-gun control, Pro-environmental regulation.
For stem cell research, strict separation of religion and government.
I am for world court, UN, Kato treaty, government run health care for all, Importation of prescription drugs, sane drug laws, and pension reform.

These views all fall under the democratic party line.
So an il-informed ignorant American like some of you put it can go ahead and still vote and know he is choosing the party that will fight for his ideals and views on life.
I vote democrat for that reason...even if I have no clue as to who I am voting for.
Is that so bad?
Am I then one of the people that should not vote because I am not as informed as you or others with an inflated ego?
Some people feel that their party will do them right and put faith, trust and most important of all THEIR VOTE to work.

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: quarkyquasar]
    #3261186 -

quarkyquasar writes:

I find it offensive that just because the average American is not well informed by your standards that they should not vote.

I haven't said uninformed people shouldn't vote. I merely urge informed people to vote.

By the rest of your post it is apparent you will vote the straight Democrat ticket Democrat no matter what -- that you trust the Democrats to do whatever is mostly in line with your own political philosophy, so informing yourself on the issues is unnecessary. That's fine. If I were an American I would probably vote the straight Libertarian ticket unless a particular Libertarian was a complete Kerry-like scumbag, in which case I'd vote for someone else.

I urged all Americans who frequent this forum to vote. I am urging you to vote as well -- even though I know full well you'll vote for that lying sack of pus. What more do you want?


pinky


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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Rose]
    #3261343 -

Cervantes writes:

Quote:
I replied to your first questions... about Cal Thomas... multiple times... Scroll up.


No, you didn't. You made comments about Thomas filling in for Bill O'Reily. That wasn't the question. Here it is again --

Why do you claim Thomas used examples that make only liberals look stupid?

Quote:
I answered your question with quotes from Cal Thomas' essay.


You used quotes, yes. You didn't answer the question. Here it is again -- why do you believe Thomas's examples make only liberals look stupid?

Quote:
As for your second question:

2) What "hidden gesture between the lines" do you believe I am making?

I was explaining to unbeliever why this thread got at least one, "1 shroom" rating, when I said it.

Here's the quote:

Quote:

Cervantes said:
It is a shame Cal Thomas is not Fair and Balanced. He makes good points but he only use(d) examples that make liberals look stupid.

How 'bout the percentage of voters who can find England on a map?

or

The number of people who believe Iraq was involved in 9-11?

Still, Pinky, thanks for the gesture... I just sense a hidden gesture between the lines.



I'd like to think you are smart enough to figure out what I meant by that "Hidden gesture" comment.


I'm not smart enough to figure it out. Besides, no matter what I said about it, you'd claim I was "misreading" it or "putting words into" your mouth anyway. That's why I am asking you -- yet again -- what you believe my "hidden gesture" was? Why are you so shy about clarifying this? I'm puzzled at your reluctance to make yourself clear.

pinky


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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Phred]
    #3261462 -

My post was not directed soley at you pinksharkmark. I understand and respect what you have said. It was more at the idea that some of the statements in this thread raised for me.
Also, why so much flaming and bickering? I was excited about this thread at first, but it sure lost focus. Let that silly crap go and move on guys.....

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Rose]
    #3261477 -

I thought I asked you to scroll up.

Cervantes said:
pinksharkmark said:
Quote:
When you get a minute, you might deign to answer these questions:

1) Why do you believe the statistics referenced by Thomas only make liberals look stupid?



OK, here's a few quotes from Cal.

* 70 percent of respondents did not know that Congress recently passed and President Bush signed a Medicare prescription drug benefit

YAY! Bush gave us drugs!

but

Most people believe there is no UNIVERSAL health care...

Stupid Liberals!

* 58 percent said they knew "nothing" or "very little" about the controversial USA Patriot Act, despite a slew of TV commercials by the American Civil Liberties Union denouncing it.

Sounds to me like Cal suggests,

The Patriot act is GOOD!

and

The ACLU is EVIL!

Anybody who thinks otherwise is WRONG.

Thanks Cal for enlightening us.

* For example, 61 percent believe that there has been a net loss of jobs in 2004,

OOPS! After 3 years of job loss, I guess people didn't notice that this year was a LITTLE better.

YAY Bush!

Thanks Cal!

* 58 percent believe that the administration sees a link between Saddam Hussein and 9/11

Cal is suggesting that Bush and Cheney certainly never said anything of the sort... connecting 9-11 with Iraq. This must be a Liberal conspiracy.

There aren't any quotes out there that suggest Bush saw a link between 9-11 and Iraq... are there?

* 57 percent believe that increases in domestic spending have not contributed significantly to the current federal budget deficit.

Well, OK, that one DOES make the Bush administration look bad.

I guess you're right Pinky, Cal Thomas is Fair and Balanced.



--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Rose]
    #3261521 -

I did scroll up. Where do you make any attempt, "subtext"-laden or in plain speech -- to show that Thomas's examples make only liberals look stupid?

And you continue to dodge my question regarding what you believe my "hidden gesture" might have been. Guess that one will remain a mystery.

pinky


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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: quarkyquasar]
    #3261538 -

quarkyquasar writes:

My post was not directed soley at you pinksharkmark. I understand and respect what you have said. It was more at the idea that some of the statements in this thread raised for me.

Fair enough. What confused me was that you had replied to my post, so I presumed your comments were directed at me alone. Glad you clarified that.

Also, why so much flaming and bickering?

Was that one I am supposed to answer, or is it also for Cervantes or infidelGOD or luvdemshrooms? For my part, I don't consider a polite request (or in my case, half a dozen requests) to answer a simple question to be bickering.


pinky


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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Phred]
    #3261698 -

As for "Reading between the lines,"

Here's EXACTLY what I said:

"Pinky, thanks for the gesture... I just sense a hidden gesture between the lines."

IT WAS ANOTHER JOKE!

Sorry dude, it wasn't very funny (although it had a double meaning, so I should get SOME bonus points) but I was in a humorous mood last night, and surprisingly or not... you misinterpreted my light natured mood for something more sinister.

I had a similar run in with Luvdem in this thread, perhaps you noticed it...

What can I say?

Damn, you could probably take me less seriously. You DEFINITELY should stop taking everything I say literally. Unlike some here, I don't disagree with you every time you post. And unlike others, I don't dislike people just because I disagree with them.

All I meant by "Between the lines," was, even though your intent in this thread was sweet... the conservatively biased article you chose to use was obviously considered to be a backhanded slap to some Liberals who read it. Which I suspected was why someone gave this thread a one shroom rating, shortly after it was posted... despite your good intents. BTW... When I said what I said, I was answering this question: "Why did someone give this thread a 1 shroom rating?"

Now, for the gesture...

The gesture I had in mind was a BIG MIDDLE FINGER.

Let me explain.

The read between the lines gesture, where I come from, means... A guy holds 3 fingers up to you, and says "Read between the lines," you then, look at the three fingers and focus on the one in the middle... ie: asking someone to read between the lines, with a gesture, means you are flipping them off.

Perhaps this phrase was colloquial enough to slip by without you ever hearing it Pinky. But, that is what it means, and it is quite a common way of subtly telling someone to go fuck themself. That's what the "Read between the lines," gesture means.

So, what I meant by saying you were making another gesture between the lines, was: I could easily see a very Anti Liberal Bias in your post, and in the link you provided... despite your good intentions. I figured others had a similar opinion... since the thread had been rated so low.

I'm sorry this was so hard for you to understand what gesture was "Between the lines."

What other gesture did you think I could have meant?

I'm sorry Pink, but if I can SUGGEST in ONE SENTENCE what takes 10 or so PARAGRAPHS to explain, I'll suggest it. ESPECIALLY when the suggestion has NOTHING to do with POLITICS.

There's your answer. Within the answer, if you listen to what I have SUGGESTED, you will see why I did not deem your question about "Reading Between The Lines" important, or relevant enough to answer... for a while.

There, all I wrote in this post could easily have been discovered by applying simple READING COMPREHENSION skills.

I appreciate your points about writing clearly but Pinky, an average Fifth Grader, MUST comprehend reading better than you want to.

Come on, he who lives in a glass house should not cast stones.

You want people to WRITE clearly.

People want you to COMPREHEND what you READ.

As a moderator, don't you think it is more important to address someone's issues in a post that to critique their writing style?

This is an international website, as you are well aware. Many people with different English ability come in here. It is IMPOSSIBLE to take everything, everyone says here literally. It is impossible to hold everyone here to such a high standard. Christ, most people here are fucked up on aomething RIGHT NOW!

It is my opinion that we, as mods, should do our best to understand what someone means in their post before replying to them... and if we do not understand, we should ask for clarification BEFORE offering opinion.

Thanks for asking.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: quarkyquasar]
    #3261786 -

Quote:
quarkyquasar said:
I find it offensive that just because the average American is not well informed by your standards that they should not vote.
I am a democrat.



I make no apologies, uninformed people should not be voting. It is pretty typical of your party to throw ignorant people at the polls knowing they will win more votes with through most empty promises, unrealistic generalities, and best haircuts, at the expense of those who don't know better.
An informed electorate is the best remedy to demagogery, which seems why Democrats seem to be so intent on getting the ignorant masses to the polls.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."

Edited by Divided_Sky (10/21/04 07:07 PM)

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Rose]
    #3262074 -

Okay. So now you are saying the comment on the hidden gesture was a joke. Either that or you are saying my ulterior motive in making the post was that I did it to slag Libbies. I'm still not sure which you wish me to believe.

You DEFINITELY should stop taking everything I say literally.

A handy pre-manufactured excuse for backtracking on anything you get caught on. I still fail to see how I can be shat upon by you for reading stuff into your posts that aren't there on the one hand and shat upon for taking what you say at face value on the other. Heads you win, tails I lose, eh?

And unlike others, I don't dislike people just because I disagree with them.

Neither do I. I don't dislike you, I just find your efforts to evade responsibility for what you say to be simultaneously amusing and frustrating.

Quote:
I could easily see a very Anti Liberal Bias in your post, and in the link you provided... despite your good intentions.


Then you read into it something that wasn't there -- in either my post or in the article I linked. I have read and re-read the article several times. Nowhere in it does Thomas ever even mention the word "Liberal" or "Democrat". Nowhere in my post do I ever mention "Liberal" or "Democrat". My entire point -- and Thomas's point -- is that there are a frightening number of people out there who haven't the faintest grasp of the issues, and in many cases believe exactly the opposite of the truth. Neither he nor I state or even imply that the group of uninformed/misinformed people contains more liberals than conservatives -- and the numbers he quotes prove that they can't all be liberals.

Here you are giving me shit for not reading things properly, when you yourself can't read either my post or the article I link. Thomas and I are not complaining about the number of liberal voters, we are complaining about the number of uninformed voters. Your hyper-sensitive "subtext" sniffer has led you to imagine all kinds of things that simply aren't there.

I appreciate your points about writing clearly but Pinky, an average Fifth Grader, MUST comprehend reading better than you want to.

The irony here is that the statement of yours is written so clearly that a fifth grader can easily comprehend it. There are no hidden meanings, no double meanings, no alternative interpretations, no subtext. Your statement was --

Quote:
He makes good points but he only use examples that make liberals look stupid.


You have yet to explain to us how anyone with average reading comprehension skills should be expected to divine that you didn't really mean that you believed he only used examples that make liberals look stupid.

Come on, he who lives in a glass house should not cast stones.

I haven't the faintest fucking idea what you are trying to get at here. Are you accusing me of writing unclearly?

People want you to COMPREHEND what you READ.

Please tell me how I was miscomprehending the meaning of the statement "He makes good points but he only use examples that make liberals look stupid." I would say I comprehended precisely what I read.

As a moderator, don't you think it is more important to address someone's issues in a post that to critique their writing style?

Ah, but there's the rub. I do address the issues. it's just that you deny what you wrote was really what you wrote. And I wasn't "critiquing" your writing style. There was nothing ambiguous about your statement, "He makes good points but he only use examples that make liberals look stupid." That is clear, direct, concise, and to the point. The only problem is that it is a completely inaccurate statement. I wasn't criticizing the style of the statement, but its content.

Many people with different English ability come in here.

And I make allowances for non-native English speakers such as Crobih. You, on the other hand, demonstrate a more than adequate command of your mother tongue.

It is my opinion that we, as mods, should do our best to understand what someone means in their post before replying to them... and if we do not understand, we should ask for clarification BEFORE offering opinion.

And how on earth was I supposed to know that when you make a simple declarative statement like, "He makes good points but he only use examples that make liberals look stupid," you actually meant something else? Fuck me, am I supposed to verify every single sentence in each of your posts? Give me a break!

The fact of the matter here is that there was no lack of reading comprehension on my part. What happened is that you got caught making a statement you couldn't support and you fell back on the "Golly, why can't you learn to read between the lines" argument.

That ain't debate. That's evasion.

And your attempt to paint me as the unreasonable party in this exchange is even lamer than the original evasion.

And as a parting comment, no I have never come across the "read between the lines" gesture/comment. Perhaps the fact that I have been living on a Caribbean island for the last seventeen years has something to do with this lapse in my understanding of modern hand gesture/comments.


pinky


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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3262177 -

Divided_Sky said:
quarkyquasar said:
I find it offensive that just because the average American is not well informed by your standards that they should not vote.
I am a democrat.


I make no apologies, uninformed people should not be voting. It is pretty typical of your party to throw ignorant people at the polls knowing they will win more votes with through most empty promises, unrealistic generalities, and best haircuts, at the expense of those who don't know better.
An informed electorate is the best remedy to demagogery, which seems why Democrats seem to be so intent on getting the ignorant masses to the polls.


The dumber the electorate the more the Democrats benefit. See Florida in 2000 when the people who couldn't figure out how to use the ballot were overwhelmingly Gore voters (at least that's what the Dems themselves said). Fucking 'tards. They shot themselves in the balls with that one.


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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Rose]
    #3262458 -

Cervantes said:
It is a shame Cal Thomas is not Fair and Balanced. He makes good points but he only use examples that make liberals look stupid.

How 'bout the percentage of voters who can find England on a map?

or

The number of people who believe Iraq was involved in 9-11?

Still, Pinky, thanks for the getsure... I just sense a hidden gesture between the lines.

Isn't that guy on one of FoxNews' discussion panels?


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- uno

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Phred]
    #3262467 -

OK.

Cal Thomas...

In the example I gave you, of his polls of American idiocy, 5 out of 6 polls that I saw at a quick glance, demonstrated the idiocy of the average Liberal.

I mean, 5/6 of the polls I quoted, were politically biased to make the Right wing look good... in my opinion.

In a couple polls, a liberal could still argue the other side... and be right, if they argued well enough... but I'll save that discussion for another day.

Fox reporters use subtle jabs at the Left. Much like the NY Times gently annoys the right. You begin to pick them up after a while. I'm sure you know where I'm coming from. You are familiar with the Left leaning American media aren't you? Cal's a conservative, like you. I doubt you are as aware of the little jabs Cal throws as you are of Dan Rather's. Cal's very good at what he does. He's done it for a long time.

In my first post in this thread, I gave two examples... one was an unbiased question... What Percentage of American voters can find England on a map?... and the other a Left biased question... The percentage of people who believe Iraq was involved in 9-11? These were examples of the types of questions I thought would have either made Cal's report unbiased, or fair and balanced.

I did not explain how my two examples, compared to the Cal Thomas polls. This is where you got confused. For that, I apologize. In hindsight, what I said in that post was provocative enough to earn a response from you, even though I was talking to someone else. I should have added more information, because I did make a sweeping political statement with little proof.

However, I was answering someone else at the time, and my intended point WAS conveyed to the intended recipient.

You were confused, and understandably became defensive of this (your) thread. You thought I was dissing your thread and Cal Thomas, more than I actually was because, you didn't understand something I broadly said.

I talked in shorthand in that post because it was answering a question having nothing to do with politics. Unfortunately, I made a broad political statement during my response. I guess I couldn't help it.

From my perspective Pinky, I thought you were playing the ignorant asshole. How could you not think Cal Thomas is an Obviously Right leaning commentator unless you don't watch him on FOX? The guy works for FOX to defend the Right's perspective. How on earth could you not understand "Read between the lines?"

This was a silly, miscommunication, that I now understand.

I hope you see I wasn't ignoring your points. I was as confused by your points as you were with mine.

Peace,
Cervantes


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Rose]
    #3262810 -

Fair enough.

However, as I have pointed out many times here in the past -- I don't have a television or a radio. Haven't had either for seventeen years. I have never seen Bush on television. I wouldn't recognize his voice if I heard it on the radio. Same with Rush Limbaugh. I have never seen Rush on TV, or listened to his show on the radio. I have read comments from him here and there, though. Same with Ann Coulter. I wouldn't recognize her voice if I heard it on the radio.

Now, on my twice weekly vacations to Canada, I do watch TV. A lot of TV. But I rarely watch the news shows, and even if I did, I couldn't watch FOX News, because FOX News isn't available in Canada -- even on cable. So I have never seen O'Reilly, and wasn't aware that Cal Thomas sometimes appears on O'Reilly's show. So no, I don't know what sly little digs Thomas tends to insert into his commentary on television. But I did read and re-read his entire article several times and I fail to see any suggestion anywhere in there that the people in the surveys he references are more likely to be liberal than to be conservative. I think the reason that you assumed he was taking a dig at liberals is that you were influenced by what you had seen of him on television. If that article had been written by Mickey Kaus, for example -- I mean identical word for word -- would you have made the same charge? Nope.

And I still don't see how the examples are more embarassing to libbies than to conservatives. Let's take the question of the ties between Hussein's iraq and 9-11 -- I think it's pretty well a lock that Bush supporters are more likely to believe such a tie existed than Bush bashers. Since they (Bush supporters) themselves believe this, it's not surprising they would feel that the Bush administration also believes it, which leaves a very tiny step indeed to going all the way to believing that the Bush administration has actually said it.

Same thing with the observation about job loss -- since conservatives actually tend to work for a living (which explains why you rarely see conservatives at demonstrations; they have jobs. Yes I know, I know... a gratuitous dig at Libbies) -- I cannot for the life of me see them being less concerned with job loss than Libbies. I have no doubt there are just as many conservatives who get the job loss thing wrong as there are libbies.

Same with the socialized medicine plan of Bush -- the "free meds for the wizened" medicare changes. How on earth can ignorance of this plan be slanted either against conservatives or liberals? It's a bipartisan issue.

If you truly feel Cal's examples were carefully chosen to make just libbies look bad, there is no convincing you otherwise. I feel they were neutral, and in the case of the Hussein/9-11 example, actually embarassing to conservatives more than Liberals. How about his observations on how few could name even one of their senators, or their rep in the House? is that not a neutral observation?

Finally, your question "how many can find England on a map" has nothing to do with the issues at stake in the current American presidential election, while all of the issues Thomas mentioned are directly connected to American political issues.

To get this thread back on topic, however, I repeat --

Vote! Preferably for Badnarik.


pinky


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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Phred]
    #3263008 -

Sometimes I forget how cut off from American pop culture you truely are.

Cal Thomas... Trust me, he is biased, and he is payed to be biased. It is not Cal's job to be impartial, it is his job to rally the Right, particularly, the Religious Right. He does his job well, he  is polite, serious and smooth with his delivery.

I really do not think he said anything truely biased in that column.

But...

I think Cal stacked the odds in the Right's pollitical favor. He picked issues where most of America thought Bush was doing worse than he actually is. In a pollitical season, you must believe Cal was deliberate in his choices. He chose those stats to rally his base. To inform them, yes Dubbya's doing Great! Better than America thinks!

You have to understand, there are people who WON'T believe it just because Dubbya' said it. This may appear dumb to you... but it may still prove the wiser choice. Dubbya's told some BIG lies to America. These lies aren't about blowjobs. Some people have just shut W off.

Forgive me for my lack of specifics. I am too jaded to look them up right now. It has been a long day. But trust me, I read Cal's article a few times too. I know what I saw. I know Cal's job is to rally the Right. I just explained how he did it.

If you now, revisit the comments I made about Cal's six polls, I think you will give you an idea of what those polls sounded like to a Lefty... bringing us back to why this thread may have recieved a one shroom rating.

I hope this explains what I meant better, I can look up the specifics, but at this point, it is hardly relavant. I think you can now see what I meant. :smirk:

VOTE ANYBODY BUT DUBBYA!


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Rose]
    #3273773 -

fox is george bushes personal mouthpiece, there isnt a iota of real reporting journalism(you know telling the truth) left.

its the way of the future im afraid people dont want the truth they want to hear what they already believe. its only natural, but its still the lowest form of existence.

for anybody who doesnt know that the cia helped saddam come to power - http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/saddam/interviews/aburish.html

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: kbilly]
    #3273964 -

Man, you don't even have FOX news down there. Have you even seen it? Sure it's biased, but no more than CNN or the BBC.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3274338 -

I find that above statement to be so untrue.
FOX is the most biased cable news out there. Its pathetic!
I try to watch it just so I can see what the brainwashed republicans are talking about and what lies they are spewing forth.
At least MSNBC and CNN try to be "fair and balanced" with a variety of left and right shows. Every single show on fox is setup to make liberals look bad and Conservative republicans to look good. Even the token lefty democratic segments are just their to make us liberals look stupid and extreme to y'all southern yokels...guess they need to feel better about your selves eh?
Overall though I just wish people would see each other as brothers and fellow Americans all just trying to make the best of things...no offense meant. I just get frustrated with the polarization of America. Sorry

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3275879 -

man im not down there, wherever you assume me to be.
if you think the bbc is anything like fox man your out of touch with reality.

divided sky your a moron just like GW. the crap you posted in the "universe is infinite" thread would be funny if it wasnt so stupid. switch fox off and go read a book, if you know what that is.

Edited by kbilly (10/25/04 03:41 PM)

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: kbilly]
    #3275967 -

Sadly, personal attacks are not allowed in this forum.

Facts are.

If you wish to argue with facts and links, please do.

If you wish to call people names, use another forum.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Rose]
    #3276352 -

yes, sadly what happened to freedom of speech.
im quite happy for people to call me names.
its just my opinion, so it doesnt matter.

and i was arguinga fact:
"if you think the bbc is anything like fox man your out of touch with reality"

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: kbilly]
    #3276439 -

Quote:
kbilly said:
man im not down there, wherever you assume me to be.
if you think the bbc is anything like fox man your out of touch with reality.

divided sky your a moron just like GW. the crap you posted in the "universe is infinite" thread would be funny if it wasnt so stupid. switch fox off and go read a book, if you know what that is.



Your avatar says Auckland, New Zealand.
I will go even further to say that the BBC is FAR more biased than FOX, and that says alot. At least FOX doesn't have whinning melodramatic journalists who exploit every anecdotal negative situation with the finger pointed at the US and Israel by default. BBC is pure drama and emotion glued together with some facts.
True FOX has very conservative leaning in its EDITORIAL programs, and a mild conservative leaning in it's news coverage, but both the BBC and CNN have their own very evident biases in their new coverage.
Stupid is as stupid does.

Quote:
I think we as Westerners have big problem as we are taught to view the world in very discrete, finite, and conceptual terms. We just can't fathom that time is without beginiing or end, that the universe is infinite, and that nothing exists discretely or indendently as it does in our minds.
...See quantum mechanics and the holographic universe theory.
In quantum mechanics everything that can happen does happen at once, and in the holographic universe theory there is no space or matter either, everything is one point and only gains space, time and substantiality through the human brain.



--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Rose]
    #3276445 -

Cervantes said:
Sadly, personal attacks are not allowed in this forum.



What is sad about that?


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: kbilly]
    #3276481 -

All media is biased.

We are all out of touch with reality.  :crazy2:

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: EonTan]
    #3278372 -

well of course it is, because its paid for by someone, its unfortunately the way of the world, i definately dont rely on mainstream media for the facts.

bbc is however nothing like fox, which has stopped being a true newsagency becuase it tells its reporters what they will write in their articles etc etc. its propaganda not biased news. major difference.

on cnn they have something called international viewers voice or opinion or something. if they get a pro kerry one they always follow
follow with a pro bush one, so at least they try to be fair.
and believe me since its an intern slot they will get 10 times more pro kerry ones.
you will not see that on fox.

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3278557 -

Quote:
Divided_Sky said:
Quote:
Cervantes said:
Sadly, personal attacks are not allowed in this forum.




What is sad about that?



Rules are rules. This is sad.

I sorta' find name calling amusing.

I want to call people names.

Perhaps that is sad.

There's a lot of sadness surrounding this whole issue.

I'm a sad clown.

Vote anybody but Bush!


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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