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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3262177 -

Divided_Sky said:
quarkyquasar said:
I find it offensive that just because the average American is not well informed by your standards that they should not vote.
I am a democrat.


I make no apologies, uninformed people should not be voting. It is pretty typical of your party to throw ignorant people at the polls knowing they will win more votes with through most empty promises, unrealistic generalities, and best haircuts, at the expense of those who don't know better.
An informed electorate is the best remedy to demagogery, which seems why Democrats seem to be so intent on getting the ignorant masses to the polls.


The dumber the electorate the more the Democrats benefit. See Florida in 2000 when the people who couldn't figure out how to use the ballot were overwhelmingly Gore voters (at least that's what the Dems themselves said). Fucking 'tards. They shot themselves in the balls with that one.


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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Rose]
    #3262458 -

Cervantes said:
It is a shame Cal Thomas is not Fair and Balanced. He makes good points but he only use examples that make liberals look stupid.

How 'bout the percentage of voters who can find England on a map?

or

The number of people who believe Iraq was involved in 9-11?

Still, Pinky, thanks for the getsure... I just sense a hidden gesture between the lines.

Isn't that guy on one of FoxNews' discussion panels?


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- uno

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Phred]
    #3262467 -

OK.

Cal Thomas...

In the example I gave you, of his polls of American idiocy, 5 out of 6 polls that I saw at a quick glance, demonstrated the idiocy of the average Liberal.

I mean, 5/6 of the polls I quoted, were politically biased to make the Right wing look good... in my opinion.

In a couple polls, a liberal could still argue the other side... and be right, if they argued well enough... but I'll save that discussion for another day.

Fox reporters use subtle jabs at the Left. Much like the NY Times gently annoys the right. You begin to pick them up after a while. I'm sure you know where I'm coming from. You are familiar with the Left leaning American media aren't you? Cal's a conservative, like you. I doubt you are as aware of the little jabs Cal throws as you are of Dan Rather's. Cal's very good at what he does. He's done it for a long time.

In my first post in this thread, I gave two examples... one was an unbiased question... What Percentage of American voters can find England on a map?... and the other a Left biased question... The percentage of people who believe Iraq was involved in 9-11? These were examples of the types of questions I thought would have either made Cal's report unbiased, or fair and balanced.

I did not explain how my two examples, compared to the Cal Thomas polls. This is where you got confused. For that, I apologize. In hindsight, what I said in that post was provocative enough to earn a response from you, even though I was talking to someone else. I should have added more information, because I did make a sweeping political statement with little proof.

However, I was answering someone else at the time, and my intended point WAS conveyed to the intended recipient.

You were confused, and understandably became defensive of this (your) thread. You thought I was dissing your thread and Cal Thomas, more than I actually was because, you didn't understand something I broadly said.

I talked in shorthand in that post because it was answering a question having nothing to do with politics. Unfortunately, I made a broad political statement during my response. I guess I couldn't help it.

From my perspective Pinky, I thought you were playing the ignorant asshole. How could you not think Cal Thomas is an Obviously Right leaning commentator unless you don't watch him on FOX? The guy works for FOX to defend the Right's perspective. How on earth could you not understand "Read between the lines?"

This was a silly, miscommunication, that I now understand.

I hope you see I wasn't ignoring your points. I was as confused by your points as you were with mine.

Peace,
Cervantes


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Rose]
    #3262810 -

Fair enough.

However, as I have pointed out many times here in the past -- I don't have a television or a radio. Haven't had either for seventeen years. I have never seen Bush on television. I wouldn't recognize his voice if I heard it on the radio. Same with Rush Limbaugh. I have never seen Rush on TV, or listened to his show on the radio. I have read comments from him here and there, though. Same with Ann Coulter. I wouldn't recognize her voice if I heard it on the radio.

Now, on my twice weekly vacations to Canada, I do watch TV. A lot of TV. But I rarely watch the news shows, and even if I did, I couldn't watch FOX News, because FOX News isn't available in Canada -- even on cable. So I have never seen O'Reilly, and wasn't aware that Cal Thomas sometimes appears on O'Reilly's show. So no, I don't know what sly little digs Thomas tends to insert into his commentary on television. But I did read and re-read his entire article several times and I fail to see any suggestion anywhere in there that the people in the surveys he references are more likely to be liberal than to be conservative. I think the reason that you assumed he was taking a dig at liberals is that you were influenced by what you had seen of him on television. If that article had been written by Mickey Kaus, for example -- I mean identical word for word -- would you have made the same charge? Nope.

And I still don't see how the examples are more embarassing to libbies than to conservatives. Let's take the question of the ties between Hussein's iraq and 9-11 -- I think it's pretty well a lock that Bush supporters are more likely to believe such a tie existed than Bush bashers. Since they (Bush supporters) themselves believe this, it's not surprising they would feel that the Bush administration also believes it, which leaves a very tiny step indeed to going all the way to believing that the Bush administration has actually said it.

Same thing with the observation about job loss -- since conservatives actually tend to work for a living (which explains why you rarely see conservatives at demonstrations; they have jobs. Yes I know, I know... a gratuitous dig at Libbies) -- I cannot for the life of me see them being less concerned with job loss than Libbies. I have no doubt there are just as many conservatives who get the job loss thing wrong as there are libbies.

Same with the socialized medicine plan of Bush -- the "free meds for the wizened" medicare changes. How on earth can ignorance of this plan be slanted either against conservatives or liberals? It's a bipartisan issue.

If you truly feel Cal's examples were carefully chosen to make just libbies look bad, there is no convincing you otherwise. I feel they were neutral, and in the case of the Hussein/9-11 example, actually embarassing to conservatives more than Liberals. How about his observations on how few could name even one of their senators, or their rep in the House? is that not a neutral observation?

Finally, your question "how many can find England on a map" has nothing to do with the issues at stake in the current American presidential election, while all of the issues Thomas mentioned are directly connected to American political issues.

To get this thread back on topic, however, I repeat --

Vote! Preferably for Badnarik.


pinky


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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Phred]
    #3263008 -

Sometimes I forget how cut off from American pop culture you truely are.

Cal Thomas... Trust me, he is biased, and he is payed to be biased. It is not Cal's job to be impartial, it is his job to rally the Right, particularly, the Religious Right. He does his job well, he  is polite, serious and smooth with his delivery.

I really do not think he said anything truely biased in that column.

But...

I think Cal stacked the odds in the Right's pollitical favor. He picked issues where most of America thought Bush was doing worse than he actually is. In a pollitical season, you must believe Cal was deliberate in his choices. He chose those stats to rally his base. To inform them, yes Dubbya's doing Great! Better than America thinks!

You have to understand, there are people who WON'T believe it just because Dubbya' said it. This may appear dumb to you... but it may still prove the wiser choice. Dubbya's told some BIG lies to America. These lies aren't about blowjobs. Some people have just shut W off.

Forgive me for my lack of specifics. I am too jaded to look them up right now. It has been a long day. But trust me, I read Cal's article a few times too. I know what I saw. I know Cal's job is to rally the Right. I just explained how he did it.

If you now, revisit the comments I made about Cal's six polls, I think you will give you an idea of what those polls sounded like to a Lefty... bringing us back to why this thread may have recieved a one shroom rating.

I hope this explains what I meant better, I can look up the specifics, but at this point, it is hardly relavant. I think you can now see what I meant. :smirk:

VOTE ANYBODY BUT DUBBYA!


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Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Rose]
    #3273773 -

fox is george bushes personal mouthpiece, there isnt a iota of real reporting journalism(you know telling the truth) left.

its the way of the future im afraid people dont want the truth they want to hear what they already believe. its only natural, but its still the lowest form of existence.

for anybody who doesnt know that the cia helped saddam come to power - http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/saddam/interviews/aburish.html

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: kbilly]
    #3273964 -

Man, you don't even have FOX news down there. Have you even seen it? Sure it's biased, but no more than CNN or the BBC.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3274338 -

I find that above statement to be so untrue.
FOX is the most biased cable news out there. Its pathetic!
I try to watch it just so I can see what the brainwashed republicans are talking about and what lies they are spewing forth.
At least MSNBC and CNN try to be "fair and balanced" with a variety of left and right shows. Every single show on fox is setup to make liberals look bad and Conservative republicans to look good. Even the token lefty democratic segments are just their to make us liberals look stupid and extreme to y'all southern yokels...guess they need to feel better about your selves eh?
Overall though I just wish people would see each other as brothers and fellow Americans all just trying to make the best of things...no offense meant. I just get frustrated with the polarization of America. Sorry

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3275879 -

man im not down there, wherever you assume me to be.
if you think the bbc is anything like fox man your out of touch with reality.

divided sky your a moron just like GW. the crap you posted in the "universe is infinite" thread would be funny if it wasnt so stupid. switch fox off and go read a book, if you know what that is.

Edited by kbilly (10/25/04 03:41 PM)

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: kbilly]
    #3275967 -

Sadly, personal attacks are not allowed in this forum.

Facts are.

If you wish to argue with facts and links, please do.

If you wish to call people names, use another forum.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Rose]
    #3276352 -

yes, sadly what happened to freedom of speech.
im quite happy for people to call me names.
its just my opinion, so it doesnt matter.

and i was arguinga fact:
"if you think the bbc is anything like fox man your out of touch with reality"

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: kbilly]
    #3276439 -

Quote:
kbilly said:
man im not down there, wherever you assume me to be.
if you think the bbc is anything like fox man your out of touch with reality.

divided sky your a moron just like GW. the crap you posted in the "universe is infinite" thread would be funny if it wasnt so stupid. switch fox off and go read a book, if you know what that is.



Your avatar says Auckland, New Zealand.
I will go even further to say that the BBC is FAR more biased than FOX, and that says alot. At least FOX doesn't have whinning melodramatic journalists who exploit every anecdotal negative situation with the finger pointed at the US and Israel by default. BBC is pure drama and emotion glued together with some facts.
True FOX has very conservative leaning in its EDITORIAL programs, and a mild conservative leaning in it's news coverage, but both the BBC and CNN have their own very evident biases in their new coverage.
Stupid is as stupid does.

Quote:
I think we as Westerners have big problem as we are taught to view the world in very discrete, finite, and conceptual terms. We just can't fathom that time is without beginiing or end, that the universe is infinite, and that nothing exists discretely or indendently as it does in our minds.
...See quantum mechanics and the holographic universe theory.
In quantum mechanics everything that can happen does happen at once, and in the holographic universe theory there is no space or matter either, everything is one point and only gains space, time and substantiality through the human brain.



--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Rose]
    #3276445 -

Cervantes said:
Sadly, personal attacks are not allowed in this forum.



What is sad about that?


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: kbilly]
    #3276481 -

All media is biased.

We are all out of touch with reality.  :crazy2:

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: EonTan]
    #3278372 -

well of course it is, because its paid for by someone, its unfortunately the way of the world, i definately dont rely on mainstream media for the facts.

bbc is however nothing like fox, which has stopped being a true newsagency becuase it tells its reporters what they will write in their articles etc etc. its propaganda not biased news. major difference.

on cnn they have something called international viewers voice or opinion or something. if they get a pro kerry one they always follow
follow with a pro bush one, so at least they try to be fair.
and believe me since its an intern slot they will get 10 times more pro kerry ones.
you will not see that on fox.

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Re: Why you MUST vote [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3278557 -

Quote:
Divided_Sky said:
Quote:
Cervantes said:
Sadly, personal attacks are not allowed in this forum.




What is sad about that?



Rules are rules. This is sad.

I sorta' find name calling amusing.

I want to call people names.

Perhaps that is sad.

There's a lot of sadness surrounding this whole issue.

I'm a sad clown.

Vote anybody but Bush!


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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