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Re: "Ghost" Lighthouse Debunked [Re: Frog]
    #3235955 -

The harm being done in that case is that it spreads ignorance. First there is a lighthouse ghost next time a crazy cult.

We need to learn to think critically.


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We're the lowest of the low, the scum of the fucking earth!

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Re: "Ghost" Lighthouse Debunked [Re: Scarfmeister]
    #3236318 -

i think it is sad when people have to cling to beliefs that have been proven to be untrue. No one can prove that god is untrue, no one can prove that their arent amazing spiritual realms of experience, but you can prove, to yourself and others, that the light in the tower was a reflection and nothing more.

When someone has the proof in front of them and continues to cling to their belief, that is a weakness and self damaging.

This is the same thing some of us new age types tend to accuse some of the skeptics here of (being dogmatically set in their beliefs, even in the face of new evidence) so i think it is hypocritical not to condemn the spiritual community when they commit that same mistake.

However, i think diploids comment about this kind of desperate need to believe in a romantic guardian spirit being 'exactly the kind of thinking' that led to the witch hunts and inquisitions is total crap.

The thinking that led to the witch hunts and inquisitions was complex, and had more to do with maintaining religious power over the populace. It also had a significant aspect that devalued human life and human rights. Believing in a guardian angel is NOT going to make you go out and hunt down witches.

However, he is right that this kind of thinking (desperate need to believe in watching ghosts) is what allows crapcakes like john edwards and miss cleo to keep filling their pockets with the money of fools.

That isnt to say that spirits may not exist. If someone sees a spirit of feels it communicate with him or her personally, feels its prescence, than i cannot judge their experience. It is when they need the medium of a fraudelent psychic to have that experience that the belief becomes harmfull.

And i have to agree with swami when he says he wasnt saying anything about thinking for yourself. THis isnt about the right to think for yourself, its about being able to open your eyes to the truth, even if it hurts. If we as individuals want to evolve personally and develop, we  must be able to see past what we  want to believe, and what we have previously believed, and see what is actually there.

:thumbup:


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Everything I post is fiction.

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Re: "Ghost" Lighthouse Debunked [Re: Scarfmeister]
    #3236326 -

Exactly. First there are false reports of WMD and then there are tens of thousands dead and two (or more) countries headed for ruin. No harm in false beliefs though...


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: "Ghost" Lighthouse Debunked [Re: Swami]
    #3236550 -

Swami I agree w/ your first conclusion. Denying change, especially in light of evidence is definitely detrimental to yourself and progress.

But your analogy with the WMD is not a good one(i.e logical), b/c:

Those weren't "false beliefs," they were lies.


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need that cash to feed them jones.

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Re: "Ghost" Lighthouse Debunked [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3237050 -

However, i think diploids comment about this kind of desperate need to believe in a romantic guardian spirit being 'exactly the kind of thinking' that led to the witch hunts and inquisitions is total crap.

-The Catholics believed the Earth was the center of the universe.
-The town believed in lighthouse ghosts.

-The Earth-centered universe was demonstrated false by Galileo.
-The lighthouse ghosts were demonstrated false by scientists.

-The Catholics and inquisitor Bellarmine continued to insist the Earth was the center of the universe.
-The town continued to insist the lighthouse ghosts were real.

-The Catholics inquisition Galileo.

OK, so there was no inquisition in the town, but a few hundred years ago in the town of Salem, Massachusetts just south of the lighthouse, witch burnings were commonplace due to superstition and rigid dogmatic thinking.

The inquisition, witch burnings, and all the rest were a direct result of people's "desperate need", as you put it, to believe in superstitious nonsense while refusing to accept the truth shining in their face in favor of belief in ghosts, goblins, and dogma.

This refusal to accept the truth is what happened in Salem and in the Catholic church. It is also exactly what's happening in the lighthouse town and it's why I accuse that type of thinking of causing so much harm in the world.


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: "Ghost" Lighthouse Debunked [Re: Diploid]
    #3237286 -

"but a few hundred years ago in the town of Salem, Massachusetts just south of the lighthouse, witch burnings were commonplace"

Witch burnings in the U.S. are a myth. Witches were hung, and this was only the case in a very few instances.

http://paganwiccan.about.com/cs/burningtimes/a/salemburning.htm


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: "Ghost" Lighthouse Debunked [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3237364 -

Witch burnings in the U.S. are a myth. Witches were hung

http://www.salemwitchtrials.com/faqs.html
With the exception of Giles Corey--who was crushed to death for refusing to enter a plea of guilty or not guilty, the executed were hanged, not burned. In Colonial America, witchcraft was a felony punishable by death by hanging. However, in Europe witchcraft was considered heresy and punishable by burning at the stake.

So it appears you're right about witch burnings in Salem, but burned, hung, or other, they were still killed out of superstition which is the crux of my point.


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: "Ghost" Lighthouse Debunked [Re: Diploid]
    #3237374 -

Yes, but it was very localized and did not occur on a large scale...it was more of an oddity than a trend in American history. What occurred in Europe during the Crusades and the Inquisition was more of an example to your point.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: "Ghost" Lighthouse Debunked [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3237477 -

Well, I'm not too sure about that. Estimates range from 200,000 to half a million.

http://www.witchway.net/times/times.html

In January of 1692, the daughter and niece of Reverend Samuel Parris of Salem Village became ill. William Griggs, the village doctor, was called in when they failed to improve. His diagnosis of bewitchment put into motion the forces that would ultimately result in the hanging deaths of nineteen men and women. In addition, one man was crushed to death; several others died in prison, and the lives of many were irrevocably changed.

Edited by Diploid (10/09/04 10:44 PM)

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Re: "Ghost" Lighthouse Debunked [Re: Diploid]
    #3237605 -

You misunderstood me, I said "it was more of an oddity than a trend in American history". I meant that using the American witch trials was not sound because it was an oddity. In Europe however it was another matter. In America only a few dozen at most were ever hung. The link you posted was referencing the witch trials in Europe.

Edited by Huehuecoyotl (10/09/04 11:46 PM)

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Re: "Ghost" Lighthouse Debunked [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3237621 -

One other thing that I must note: The Salem witch trials were NOT religious persecution. This was an example of greedy people misusing the sorry legal system in place there at that time to exact revenge on nieghbors with whom they had a grudge, or as a chance to grab their neighbor's land by making an accusation that resulted in their neighbor's death.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: "Ghost" Lighthouse Debunked [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3237728 -

that is just one theory.. how do you know for sure.. it could have been for religious persecution.. others claim hallucinogenic poisoning , foul play , and general ' victim of the times'

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Re: "Ghost" Lighthouse Debunked [Re: 2Experimental]
    #3238680 -

Just read history. The witch trials of Salem, Mass. are well documemted. The testimony at the trials was even recorded. There is no mystery about the witch trials in AMERICA. Europe had a more complex history involving this matter, and a discusion of it in the same context is not relevant.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: "Ghost" Lighthouse Debunked [Re: Swami]
    #3243229 -

I caught this show, also. I thought about how easy it would be for someone to break the panel of glass that the optical scientist guy kept moving infront of to turn off the ghost light. The poor bastard spent hours setting up all sorts of optical equipment to determine the lights polarity, intensity etc etc... but as soon as it got dark and the light came on, he just ran over to the lighthouse and spent a few minutes poking around to find the problem. What he did wasn't brain science. Andbody with a partner and a walkie talkie could have done it.

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