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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Why debunk? [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #7841101 - 01/06/08 08:00 PM (16 years, 26 days ago)

I was counting the head lice on the observers...:crazy:

My bad - was not trying to exaggerate, but my memory is going. Um, what was I writing about?

The point remains whether it was 'several' or more, that people see something nebulous and instantly fill in the blanks with what they WANT TO SEE.

There was certainly many thousands who erroneously identified the Phoenix Lights military flares as UFOs / alien craft. Is that more than dozens?


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Why debunk? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7841181 - 01/06/08 08:19 PM (16 years, 26 days ago)

Yes, that is more than dozens - in that situation....
And sorry for counting the lice, I was just into the debunking spirit of the thread....!    :grin:

UFO's, they were (to the people viewing them)....    Alien craft, was one possibility out of many....
When we see something for the first time, we try to remember it's likeness to something we have seen in the past....
When we don't recognize something as being seen from "here", it is easy for some to conclude that it is from "there"....
There is a lot more "there" that we have never seen than there is "here"....
And I think sci-fi movies play a roll in some of those recognitions....    :wink:


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Why debunk? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7842392 - 01/07/08 05:55 AM (16 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

their basic premise was wrong: that the Jews were responsible for Germany's economic woes in the 20s and 30s.




No, you attribute them with a line of reasoning what is favorable to your stance :wink: That's one of logic's biggest flaws, more on that later on.

Quote:

The Third Reich architects figured:
.
We want the unconditional support of the German people.
The German people, on the whole, hate the Jews.
Solution: we get rid of the Jews.
.
The Jews have a significant role in banking and industry.
We need control of banking and industry for our war effort.
Solution: we get rid of the Jews.
.
Getting rid of the Jews and the war effort costs a lot of money.
The Jews have posessions and real estate that will leave with them.
Solution: we part the Jews with their wealth in getting rid of them.
.
We can't dump millions of Jews into lands we seek to occupy in the near future.
Solution: we get rid of them without exile, by putting them in internment camps.
.
If we let them stay in camps they eventually will cost us money and cost us money, and ten or so million prisoners tie up a lot of resources.
Solution: enhance the death rates in the camps. Feed them the bare minimum that keeps them going in slave labor. Save every buck we can. Exterminate the weak and surplus healthy. Eventually get rid of them all. Let's do it in secret where no one goes, like Poland. It's a dirty job but the people will thank us later and after the camps are wrapped up no one will ever know what it was like..




That's some Nazi logic, no emotions involved whatsoever, in fact emotions would only get in the way of the Final Solution.

Quote:

Garbage in: garbage out.




That's the major flaw of logic.

Quote:

LOGIC - if you have all necessary variables you can deduce the correct course of action.




The snag is that we will NEVER know if we have all the variables, so good logic can lead to perfectly undesirable results or completely backfire into the very opposite of what was intended. We don't even know if for all problems there are solutions that a human brain is capable of thinking up. We don't even know if there is free will at all, logical reasoning could be a side effect of whats going on instead of the driving force.

Aww but surely logic is the pillar we can hold onto?

THERE IS NO SUCH THING. There are no absolute certainties. There is no solid point to hold onto - there is just assumption, belief in those assumtions and the reliability of the effects of those assumptions.

We have five senses that approximate an ultimate reality, if indeed it does exist. We have logic to approximate a proper solution for given problems if this in fact is at all possible. We have emotion to help us decide whether the results of our logic feel like the right thing to do. Emotion also serves as a safeguard against bad logic, do not forget that.

Do your thing, but try to accept that it may well be that all our mental somersaults are entirely beside the point, like bloodletting if someone faints.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here


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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: Why debunk? [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #7842532 - 01/07/08 07:40 AM (16 years, 25 days ago)

"Debunking" theres never been any proof of anything when something here has been allegedly "debunked".

All we have is argument and counter-argument.  This is a circle that endlessly goes round.

This is because what we talk about has no definitive answer yet.  When neither side can prove 100% what they are saying then no debunking or proof can ever occur.

We have likeliness based on evidence but likeliness is what were were arguing about in the first place!  :tongue:

Yeah, whomever said it was done to pass the time is the most completely correct.  Really its just fun to debate, part of the human experience, part of growth, of learning.  At least it is for me.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Why debunk? [Re: Ego Death]
    #7842728 - 01/07/08 09:11 AM (16 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

Ego Death said:
I don't think my position is weak though.

If highly qualified people that work in the field see UFOs, surely there opinions are better than 1 person on the shroomery.

Surely a radar is not going to lie?

If I am weak for thinking this then yes I am weak.

Defensive, weak, whining - all ego words.

How about response, poor argument, persistent?




You do realize that this alien thing has been going on just about forever. Yet, like Bigfoot, everything eventually turns out to be hoax, or inconclusive. This IMO is a human drama much more than an alien one. Humans it seems need meaning; if God is dead then we need aliens, or enlightenment and on and on down the line.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Why debunk? [Re: Icelander]
    #7842920 - 01/07/08 10:12 AM (16 years, 25 days ago)

Some folks need Castaneda-like magic wherein people turn into crows, bilocate and jump off high cliffs uninjured...


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Why debunk? [Re: Ego Death]
    #7842947 - 01/07/08 10:24 AM (16 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

"Debunking" theres never been any proof of anything when something here has been allegedly "debunked".




Phoenix Lights - multiple videos submitted by believers show the lights NOT to be over the city as claimed, but 50 miles away. They do not zoom off at high speed by slowly drift behind a mountain range.

Ed Walters of the famed Gulf Breeze Sightings/hoax is found to have models in his attic that exactly match the UFOs in his photos. He claims to be able to photograph them at will, but when given a SEALED camera from MUFON is unable to do so.

Famous UFO photo claimed to be authentic is shown to be a Hoover vacuum cleaner cannister.

Claimed bigfoot feces and hair are shown to to be that of a brown bear

Claimed 'authentic' crop circles are shown on video to be made by college students.

On and on it goes, but nothing dissuades the TB.


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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: Why debunk? [Re: Icelander]
    #7842983 - 01/07/08 10:34 AM (16 years, 25 days ago)

OK,
your entitled to your belief.

Difference is, I've been there first hand, I know its real, thats it.

You guys believe your speculation, I believe my first hand experience.

You won't believe me but if you guys are still alive when the truth comes out you will know then that I'm not delusional/lieing or fulfilling a religious void.

Just remember, its real, I've seen it, other people have seen it, many of us know its real and one day if your still here - you will too. :tongue:

Nothing personal but its sad when people have to use your experiences as a weapon against you.  People try and demean me for reporting what I've seen.  Yeah, it doesn't fit into a mainstream mindset but why should people lie just to be another sheep and go with the flock.  I'm used to the laughing now, I don't care.  To me it just shows me how spiritually and philosophically undeveloped that person actually is.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Why debunk? [Re: Ego Death]
    #7843008 - 01/07/08 10:42 AM (16 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

People try and demean me for reporting what I've seen.



I have no idea what you may or may not have seen, but you repeatedly point to flawed sightings as back-up evidence.

Quote:

To me it just shows me how spiritually and philosophically undeveloped that person actually is


.
Spiritual development has nothing to do with belief in aliens and your lashing out in this manner only further weakens your tenuous position.


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Why debunk? [Re: Asante]
    #7843021 - 01/07/08 10:47 AM (16 years, 25 days ago)



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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Why debunk? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7843035 - 01/07/08 10:52 AM (16 years, 25 days ago)

"it is spiritually undeveloped of somebody to disbelieve the existence of  E.T.'s" = "it is a sin to disbelieve the existence of god baby Jesus and you shall feel their their wrath"

Come on Orgone, this is basic stuff :lol:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: Why debunk? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7843083 - 01/07/08 11:09 AM (16 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Some folks need Castaneda-like magic wherein people turn into crows, bilocate and jump off high cliffs uninjured...




Funny that Hue should turn to rock climbing these days. Do you think he is searching for Genaro?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Why debunk? [Re: Ego Death]
    #7843105 - 01/07/08 11:13 AM (16 years, 25 days ago)

Just remember, its real

Oh I will.:tongue:

Nothing personal but its sad when people have to use your experiences as a weapon against you. People try and demean me for reporting what I've seen. Yeah, it doesn't fit into a mainstream mindset but why should people lie just to be another sheep and go with the flock. I'm used to the laughing now, I don't care. To me it just shows me how spiritually and philosophically undeveloped that person actually is.


And quit Whining, if people don't believe your stories. This is a  debate forum. If you want to post without debate you know where the Mystery forum is. There's lots of aliens there I assure you.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (01/07/08 11:14 AM)


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Why debunk? [Re: Icelander]
    #7843127 - 01/07/08 11:17 AM (16 years, 25 days ago)

How can one named 'Ego Death' experience frustration, humiliation, embarassment and anger? Aren't those all qualities of one firmly entrenched in The Ego?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Why debunk? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7843136 - 01/07/08 11:19 AM (16 years, 25 days ago)

Interesting indeed. :monkeydance:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Why debunk? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7843178 - 01/07/08 11:26 AM (16 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
How can one named 'Ego Death' experience frustration, humiliation, embarassment and anger? Aren't those all qualities of one firmly entrenched in The Ego?




According to the medicine book, the ego is dead when the brain is... I dunno just testing the grounds :tongue:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Why debunk? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7843215 - 01/07/08 11:35 AM (16 years, 25 days ago)

Insinuating another poster is brain-dead is not nice. :nono:


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Why debunk? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7843221 - 01/07/08 11:36 AM (16 years, 25 days ago)

We should burn all the medicine books I say  :flame:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Why debunk? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7843229 - 01/07/08 11:39 AM (16 years, 25 days ago)

That's better. :yesnod: You have now graduated and may post freely in M&P.


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Why debunk? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7843233 - 01/07/08 11:41 AM (16 years, 25 days ago)

I would go there but I'm afraid of the rough and apt competitors :crazy:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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