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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Why debunk?
#7838937 - 01/06/08 11:31 AM (16 years, 26 days ago) |
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Would the world really be better without:
UFOs
Xtenze male enhancement
Nessie
Ghosts
Creationism
and so on?
Myths and fantasy stories can be fun, but let's look at this from another angle:
Would the War on Drugs be possible if everyone had the facts and used critical thinking?
Would World War II have been possible if ALL countries put aside emotionalism and used critical thinking?
What about tribalism, racism and sexism?
Would there be a hundred thousand religions?
Would Jonestown and Heaven's Gate have been possible?
Add to this list the almost limitless stupid, destructive things that man has done to himself and others.
How many could using straightforward logic and clear thinking have prevented? What could not have been prevented?
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EternalCowabunga
Being of Great Significance



Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 7,152
Loc: Time and Space
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The strange thing about your post is that you say we should put aside emotionalism but your whole argument is an appeal to emotions, equating those with specific beliefs to World War II. Do you have a critical argument to make?
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Not hating, not killing, not imprisoning, not wasting billions of dollars seem like practical and not emotional issues to this poster.
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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Quote:
How many could using straightforward logic and clear thinking have prevented?
You do realize you're one of the biggest Believers yourself right?
What if logic is only a crutch to cope with a reality we cannot possibly understand? What if logic itself was incorrect?
What did Nessie ever do to you  I don't think the complete annihilation of mankind on all imaginable levels can be blamed on a charming legend about a friendly sheep-stealing sea dragon that resides in a lake.
Mankind would be lost without its believers and dreamers, that;s where we'd be. There would be no arts and music. Logic can be every bit as much a prison as other beliefs can be.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
Edited by Asante (01/06/08 11:59 AM)
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Why debunk? [Re: Asante]
#7839032 - 01/06/08 12:05 PM (16 years, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
What if logic itself was incorrect?
Then, silly Wiccan, we would not be communicating in this fashion.
Here is a question/issue that you may identify with. Is gay-bashing more likely to occur from using critical thinking or from emotionalism and borrowed beliefs?
Straight answer (no pun intended) please!
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Ego Death
Justadropofwaterinanendlesssea


Registered: 04/27/03
Posts: 10,447
Loc: The War Machine
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This post doesn't appear very logical or clear thinking?
From UFOs to world war 2?
People reporting what they perceive is very different from a man wanting to rule the world by violence.
What your really saying is if everyone thought the same then we'd all get along?
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AlteredAgain
Visual Alchemist



Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 11,181
Loc: Solar Circuit
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I suspect that Orgone wouldn't mind a world full of robots. 
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Quote:
People reporting what they perceive is very different from a man wanting to rule the world by violence.
First off, people do NOT merely report what they perceive (a light in the sky), but what they conclude (it was from another star system).
A misperception (Jews caused 1930 Germany's ills) is a misperception (military flares are an alien mothership). Both are the result of flawed thinking.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Quote:
I suspect that Orgone wouldn't mind a world full of robots.
A perfect example of a flawed conclusion.
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AlteredAgain
Visual Alchemist



Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 11,181
Loc: Solar Circuit
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Lighten up mister.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Quote:
What your really saying is if everyone thought the same then we'd all get along?
Depends what you mean by thought the same. If we all knew that 1 + 1 = 2 and other basic math, then you could purchase an item anywhere and get correct change. How horrible would that be?
If we all used a similar alphabet, words, definitions and rules of grammar, we could more or less communicate.
If we used a common system of music notation, I could write a song and you could play it. Or I could export a MIDI file to you and you could play it. I could even send you a CD and it would likely play on your computer.
Yes, similarity and commonly accepted rules, weights, measurements, & protocols makes for a lifeless robotic world.
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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Quote:
Is gay-bashing more likely to occur from using critical thinking or from emotionalism and borrowed beliefs?
Counter-question: are raisin buns more likely to occur from critical thinking or from baking?
Critical thinking doesn't bash gays, but it doesn't bake bread either. Critical thinking cannot do it all. For the average person it is best to walk the middle road, and have a bit of everything but not too much or too little of any single one.
Quote:
Then, silly Wiccan, we would not be communicating in this fashion.
Why not? We could be flat out wrong. Our eyes give us an interpretation of what light can do with objects, and our ears give an impression what soundwaves are like. All we have are approximations of what might be going on, we have not one solid truth so everything is subject to interpretation.
Would you agree that your highest truth could be in error?
Because that Orgone is an even greater good than the logic and rationality you so defend: If we all could admit that our highest truth might be a falsehood, only then can real critical thinking commence.
And the follies of radicalized belief AND radicalized logic could well come undone. Instead of radicalizing, we are adopting a more neutral stance and see ourselves and our actions in a more moderate light.
Once people entertain the notion that none of us can have certainty of absolute truth, they won't strap on the bomb belt of religion, and won't logic together Final Solutions for societal issues.
Admit to yourself that anything you hold as true may be false and then meet the people with the most exotic beliefs as an equal, instead of from an ivory tower.
As we may all be wrong, we are all equals and we can all come down from our ivory towers. If the entire would would "snap out of it" like that the world peace you and I so crave for will become a reality.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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Ego Death
Justadropofwaterinanendlesssea


Registered: 04/27/03
Posts: 10,447
Loc: The War Machine
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Quote:
First off, people do NOT merely report what they perceive (a light in the sky), but what they conclude (it was from another star system).
Now your saying everyone comes to the same conclusion?
If a strange being appears then saying its ET is really a fair conclusion.
If you see a strange being getting out of a highly advanced craft, what would you call it? A jellyfish 
How can you complain about conclusions when you conclude that they are all lying or delusional?
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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My ex-girlfriend woke-up at 3 AM, saw an almond-eyed alien hovering over her shortly after reading Strieber's "Communion" and then the alien disappeared when she sat up.
The MOST likely conclusion is... ?
Did you ever read Diploid's post on the flock of birds that nearly everyone with him (dozens of witnesses) declared to be a UFO and held fast to that conclusion even when he showed them clear evidence to the contrary.
This tells us what about the human psyche?
If you want a REAL discussion, then please address these situations before returning to your normally scheduled program.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
AlteredAgain said: Lighten up mister.
How about making a decent debate then. You make a statement (of sorts) and you get a coherent answer and you start to whine.
Get over yourself.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Cracka_X
Spiritual Dirt Worshipper




Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 8,808
Loc: Swamp
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whoaaaaaaaa you blew my mind!
-------------------- The best way to live is to be like water For water benefits all things and goes against none of them It provides for all people and even cleanses those places a man is loath to go In this way it is just like Tao ~Daodejing
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Cracka_X
Spiritual Dirt Worshipper




Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 8,808
Loc: Swamp
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Quote:
Ego Death said:
What your really saying is if everyone thought the same then we'd all get along?
I thought he was saying we should keep our minds open.
-------------------- The best way to live is to be like water For water benefits all things and goes against none of them It provides for all people and even cleanses those places a man is loath to go In this way it is just like Tao ~Daodejing
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Well if I had to base my answer as to "why debunk" on the responses in this thread I would have to say so I can maintain a slight belief that humans are the tiniest bit rational. 
Keep up the good work OC.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
Edited by Icelander (01/06/08 03:12 PM)
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Ego Death
Justadropofwaterinanendlesssea


Registered: 04/27/03
Posts: 10,447
Loc: The War Machine
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I wouldn't declare an imagined alien real though.
I woke up in the night and felt someone sit on my bed, I turned on the light and nobody was there. My conclusion? Dream states are powerful.
I saw ghosts while tripping on shrooms. Conclusion? I was tripping.
But does this mean we disregard the entire alien phenomena? Doing so is not logic in my eyes.
I saw a big saucer with lights all around it land in a field, my friends saw it, we found physical evidence. My conclusion? What I saw was as real as I am.
Your right, some people are not very good at discerning reality but that doesn't give you the right to say that everybody apart from yourself is not good at discerning reality.
Theres many highly skeptical and objective people that once studied the phenomena in depth are forced to say "something real is happening".
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Your right, some people are not very good at discerning reality but that doesn't give you the right to say that everybody apart from yourself is not good at discerning reality.
Do you just make shit up as you go along?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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