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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Cheney: War was justified BECAUSE NO WMD's FOU [Re: EonTan]
    #3232672 -

Quote:
EonTan:

The analogy should be Cops just letting murderers and robbers go, becasue someone might get hurt in the act of holding them accountable for their crimes.

blah blah blah


1. There were no WMD
2. Iraq was not an immediate threat to the US

With that being said, where in the US Constitution does it say that the Federal Government has the role to impose regime change on foreign nations? Why should the US be the Global Police force?

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Re: Cheney: War was justified BECAUSE NO WMD's FOU [Re: unbeliever]
    #3232863 -

As a jew I would say War can be a good thing. Regardless of the chaos involved with the war itself. It isn't as black and white as you make it out to be.

It isn't how good or bad saadam is compared to other wackos in the world. It was how he made inspections impossible for a decade, and how dangerous that can be, when he had intent to build WMD, and Possibly had them, which no one but him knew either way for sure 100%.

The inspectors THEN were not saying they were clean. READ BUTLERS ACCOUNT OF THE EVENTS. He was in charge of UNSCOM. The only thing he agrees with you on was that we needed to get the rest of the world involved in the WAR, if we went to war. Something that was CLEARLY never going to happen. So the decision was made to do it without the majority.

You seem to focus on the most recent Inspections leading up to the war, and CHOOSE to only focus on those without putting them in context to the rest of the ten years of failed inspections. INSPECTIONS FAILED. You can't make a search of a country without them completely consenting. Consent never occured since Saadam initially agreed. It was a search here not there, and at this time not that time, and ignore the trucks driving out the back gate while we hold you at the front gate Inspection process.

Bush was not the only one to support war. So you better start calling half of america EVIL.

I don't feel like I was lied to because I am aware of what happened in the region since World war 2. not just since 9/11/01, not just since 1991.

to me only those who jumped on the wagon post 9/11/01 seem to be most likely to call Bush a liar.

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Re: Cheney: War was justified BECAUSE NO WMD's FOU [Re: Vvellum]
    #3233013 -

The constituition protects me from my governmnet. It is elected officials that decide how and when we use our military force.

Yes there were no WMD found. Unfortunaetly it took a war TO KNOW THAt FOR a FACT. So stop using that as an argument for why the war was wrong at the time we invaded Iraq.

The US should only be envolved in situations that effect American citizens. Maybe someday you will realize that the USA is truley a free country. It citizens get to direct the governmnet in its actions. Apparently enough people in this country decided it was a good Idea to get envolved. There elected officials then sent the country to war. Americans asked, Americans recieved.

to a good portion of American citizens National security was in jeopardy in relation to Iraqi governmnent. You just don't agree. Under Clinton, I wanted more done with Iraq. Nothing changed for me when Bush took Office on the Iraq issue.

What happens around the world directly effects the USA. WE are involved economically with everybody. We are involved militarily with everybody that has one. This is just the reality of the world.

Hell I wan't peace. I wan't equal rights for everybody. Unfortunately the only way to get that would be FACISM and total world domination. I don't want that, but I certainly am not naive enough to think that IMAGINE is going to get us there either.

I don't want to own Iraq, or rob them of anything. I just wanted there leader to be held accountable, and to be absolutely certain he had NO WMD. We learned in the time period from the invasion to now, what we could not learn in ten years. According to the UN position on the effects of Sanctions in IRaq over that period of time, Less civilian lives were lost in the war also.

War has casualties. Both military and civilian. The USA spends billions of dollars trying to limit civilian loss in war.

As far as international police force, no i don't think that is what we should be. I don't believe in the drug war. I do believe we have the right to defend ourselves.

I think the invasion of Iraq was defensive.

The notion that he was totally surrounded, and completely cut off from the rest of the world is absurd. Shit, some of our own allies were violating the sanctions with him. The borders were certainly porous as well. If he had them, he was a THREAT. since we now nknow he did not have them at the time of invasion, it is easy to call everyone who supported the effort to find out for sure LIARS, if you never supported the invasion to begin with, regardless of Saadam having them or not.

Did it make America look stupid. YES. Did it divide the world a little more. Yes. Do I feel safer without Saadam YES YES YES YES.

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Re: Cheney: War was justified BECAUSE NO WMD's FOU [Re: EonTan]
    #3233059 -

Quote:
Maybe someday you will realize that the USA is truley a free country. It citizens get to direct the governmnet in its actions.



Untrue. The government tells the brainwashed masses what to believe. The people become conditioned and then support the actions of the government, all the while thinking that this is what they really believe.

You're against the drug war. Good, so you can understand how people are only shown ONE SIDE of the story. They form beliefs and vote based on the side of the story that they have been shown. Do you really think America wants to lock up pot smokers? If America was shown both sides of the story, what do you think the outcome would be?



Quote:
Do I feel safer without Saadam YES YES YES YES.



I made an analogy in another thread about this: a married guy goes out and spends this months rent money on a big screen TV. His wife starts complaining about it. The husband says "Our lives will be better with a big screen TV( YES YES YES YES)". The husband is right, the TV will make the couple happier but they will pay DEARLY for it because the husband has used the rent money to buy it.

Overthrowing Saddam was a luxury that the US can not afford.






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Mp3 of the month: Wild Things- Another Colored Ink Drawing (A.C.I.D.)


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Re: Cheney: War was justified BECAUSE NO WMD's FOU [Re: Learyfan]
    #3234232 -

No in a free country you get to find out the otherside for yourself. Hence the reason why I don't support the war on drugs. The knowledge is there it just isn't taught in school.

America is free. I am not brainwashed by anyone. I do share a consensual reality with those around me, but this is not the same thing. See you and I share a consenual reality, while disagreeing on what to do with it. How do you think it possible that you managed to escape the brainwashing?
America has been shown both sides of the Marijuana debate and they have made there choices be known. If America supported legal pot, no canidate would be opposed to it. You don't get elected by going against what your voters want. YOU AT LEAST CAN'T GET RE-ELECTED. The information is out there, it has been for THOUSANDS of years, people just disagree with you based on the same information. NO-ONe is brainwashed.

Without a NATION, there is no future. Security first, everything else second. You are comparing buying a luxury(BIG SCREEN TV) to securing your ability to work. You have to Have a secure nation, before you can even think about having somewhere to pay rent to live at, or buy your TV instead.

You take an extraordinary amount of Freedom for granted. Freedom that was EARNED through WAR.

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Re: Cheney: War was justified BECAUSE NO WMD's FOU [Re: EonTan]
    #3234317 -

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/saddam/interviews/aburish.html

I ask you to read this whole article and you make the descision. No one knows Saddam better than one of his own. And you cant say the this is political since it was published in 2000.


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So Im packing my bags for the mysty mountains where the spirits go.

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Re: Cheney: War was justified BECAUSE NO WMD's FOU [Re: EonTan]
    #3235993 -

Yes there were no WMD found. Unfortunaetly it took a war TO KNOW THAt FOR a FACT.

Or to give the weapons inspectors a few more months? The problem with that of course was they would have ascertained there were no WMD and Bush would have had no justification to launch an illegal invasion. It was vital to remove the inspectors before they revealed everything Bush was saying was complete and utter bullshine.

Do I feel safer without Saadam YES YES YES YES.

You feel safer? Why? Have you been been hiding under your bed for the last 10 years petrified that Saddam was coming to get you? Saddam had no WMD, he had no connection with al-qaeda. What were you so afraid of?


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Don't worry, B. Caapi

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Re: Cheney: War was justified BECAUSE NO WMD's FOU [Re: Xlea321]
    #3236646 -

He was afraid of realizing that he was brainwashed.


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ash dingy donker mo gollyhopper patty popiton rockstop bueno mayo riggedy jig bobber johnathan pattywhacker gogboob t-shirt monkey.

There is such emotion in the distortion.

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Re: Cheney: War was justified BECAUSE NO WMD's FOU [Re: EonTan]
    #3236711 -

Ok, we're getting off topic here with the drug legalization thing, but no, America has not been shown both sides. Forget legalizing drugs, even legalizing POT is still seen as a fringe issue that only stoners talk about. It's not taken seriously at all.





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Mp3 of the month: Wild Things- Another Colored Ink Drawing (A.C.I.D.)


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Re: Cheney: War was justified BECAUSE NO WMD's FOU [Re: Learyfan]
    #3236719 -

I do think that the idea of decriminalizing pot is becoming more mainstream. Here in California, small amounts were decriminalized in 2000.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: Cheney: War was justified BECAUSE NO WMD's FOU [Re: silversoul7]
    #3236733 -

Yeah, California is a lot more progressive. In the bible belt, they think pot possession is grounds for execution.







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Mp3 of the month: Wild Things- Another Colored Ink Drawing (A.C.I.D.)


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Re: Cheney: War was justified BECAUSE NO WMD's FOU [Re: Xlea321]
    #3243101 -

The weapons inspectors had ten years to convince me. They did not. Blame Saadam. Just three more months, the check is in the mail, my dog ate my homework!!

Yes I feel safer. No I wasn't hiding under my bed. I was scared that the world was going to let Saadam get away with VIOLATING his own agreements that kept him in power after the gulf war. I actually believe people should be held accountable for their actions, unlike you(unless it is the USA).

Knowing that there were no WMD at the time of invasion, the war does seem Stupid now. As I stated before, unfortuanetly DUE TO SAADAM, it took the war to know. Inspectors FAILED over and over and over, to get complete unobstructed access to Iraq, which was in direct violation of Iraqs own agreements. No logic can disagree with that.

The only real argument you are posing is would it be justified knowing that there were no WMD, at the time of invasion. Since THAT was not the reality, It really doesn't matter to me. I am not voting Kerry or Bush. I don't have to hate America, and hate Bush to vote for someone else. I'm free to vote Libertarian, and that is what I will do.

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Re: Cheney: War was justified BECAUSE NO WMD's FOU [Re: Learyfan]
    #3243164 -

The information is out there.

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Political Discussion
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