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Anonymous

Re: WMD: The Final Judgement [Re: unbeliever]
    #3228977 - 10/07/04 04:26 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

What you're failing to see is that Saddam had no "earliest convenience". Not if the inspections and sanctions remained in place.

how long would this go on?

how many times we he be allowed to expel inspectors or obstruct their efforts before force was used?

what would in your opinion, justify force against the ba'ath regime?


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: WMD: The Final Judgement [Re: ]
    #3231534 - 10/08/04 12:08 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

why were inspections being intermittently obstructed whenever hussein felt he could get away with it?

According to Scott Ritter who was actually on the inspections, Iraq obstructed 4% of weapons inspections. And that was always areas like palaces where the CIA infiltrated weapons inspections teams were looking to set up intelligence on his regime. Saddam wasn't worried about WMD, he was worried about intelligence on his regime.

When the americans realised in 1995-1998 that no weapons were going to be found they manufactured a reason to leave.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: WMD: The Final Judgement [Re: ]
    #3231537 - 10/08/04 12:09 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

how many times we he be allowed to expel inspectors or obstruct their efforts before force was used?

Expel inspectors? When did he do this? And please don't say 1998.  :rolleyes:


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: WMD: The Final Judgement [Re: ]
    #3231541 - 10/08/04 12:10 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

you should note that i am not a supporter of the bush administration, nor am i a republican, nor do i buy the opinions of the PNAC, nor do i view fox news.

You keep saying this yet your views almost always correspond with Bush as opposed to, for example, Kerry.


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: WMD: The Final Judgement [Re: ]
    #3231723 - 10/08/04 01:42 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Ok... I didn't read the whole thread but I figured I'd chime in.

Mushmaster... you make some good points. Really.

Sadam acted to the world like he had WMD's. He dinked the UN around on numerous occasions.

It pissed me off.

One thing about Clinton, he did NOT want to send troops into war. This is why he attacked Ossama with missles and air strikes. This is why Clinton seemed to ignore Sadam. Well, that, and the USA didn't seem to mind peace over another Gulf War. Even Kosovo was fought from afar. Clinton didn't want a war. He wouldn't go back into Iraq to take Sadam out.

I would be lying if I said Sadam Hussein deserved to stay in power. Regime change was a great idea... on paper.

Sadam had lost his country ruling privelages long ago, as far as I am concerned.

There are a few problems though. Sadam had it coming, but the USA was attacked by al Quaeda. Bush went about war with Iraq all wrong.

Uh... Where in the world is Ossama bin Laden? Did we really need to change our target before Ossama was killed? I mean, Jeezus. Sadam sucked, but ask ANY New Yorker who they fear more, Sadam or Ossama. Kill the guy who killed us.

See why people wonder when Bush took 7 minutes to get off his ass on 9-11? He never seemed to care as much about 9-11 as he cared about Iraq. Look at his actions! He let Bin Laden ESCAPE. Yes, I hold Bush responsible.

WMD's... The concervative spin on what the world believed about Iraq and WMD's is a little different than I remember it.

Sure, most of Europe thought, like most Americans, Sadam had WMD's. But didn't our Bastard Enemies in France, Germany and Russia object because nobody had PROOF of these WMD's?

I destinctly remember watching Colin Powell in front of the UN making a case for war and showing his "Proof" of WMD's.

Blurry satelite photos of trucks and a vial of Anthrax (which Powell himself held) were all the Proof Powell presented.

People were asking for proof LONG before the war and they never got it.

Why couldn't Bush wait a year before moving to Iraq? We were FIGHTING BIN LADEN. The guy New Yorkers want to see put to justice. The guy who's still out there... somewhere.

Bush looked the other way.

Why didn't Bush just explain that Iraq needed regime change? Sadam needed to go. Now was the time. If he was going to go in. That case would have been easy to make. That case would have been easy to prove.

WMD's wasn't. It was an obvious risk before war began. Bush seemed to ignore this risk.

The world would have understood. America took Sadam out because he wasn't doing what he said he would after the first Gulf War.

Case closed.

Bush and Cheney fucked up.

They fucked up big.

Wrong war. Wrong place. Wrong time.

They can't say it... so they call Kerry a traitor when he does.

Get it?


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: WMD: The Final Judgement [Re: Rose]
    #3232242 - 10/08/04 08:46 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

In your opinion, why did Saddam need to be removed more than any of the other evil dictators?





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Anonymous

Re: WMD: The Final Judgement [Re: Xlea321]
    #3232245 - 10/08/04 08:49 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

he physically expelled them from iraq at least once, and on other occasions made it impossible for them to inspect certain sites or obtain documents, making it useless for them to stay.

if, after reading the long list of news articles and UN sanctions that i've provided, you are suggesting that saddam hussein's regime was anything but uncooperative with weapons inspections, i don't know what else to tell ya. if that's not enough for you, i don't know what is.


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Anonymous

Re: WMD: The Final Judgement [Re: Xlea321]
    #3232253 - 10/08/04 08:52 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

You keep saying this yet your views almost always correspond with Bush as opposed to, for example, Kerry.

off topic. i don't support george bush. i just despise john kerry. i'm not voting for either of them.


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: WMD: The Final Judgement [Re: ]
    #3232479 - 10/08/04 09:52 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

It's as if you're searching for some reason to back this war. Saddam Hussein was contained. You're buying into the administration's bullshit reasoning for this war. Invading Iraq was a luxury that we couldn't/can't afford.

I want you to think of the 11,000 plus REAL human lives that have been lost because of this war. Was it really worth it?





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Anonymous

Re: WMD: The Final Judgement [Re: Learyfan]
    #3232515 - 10/08/04 10:00 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

It's as if you're searching for some reason to back this war.

i thought we'd already settled this. i've reasons first, and a conclusion later. if i had an emotional need to support the war, i wouldn't have changed my mind on it so many times. right now, the facts of the situation leave me convinced that despite the obvious risks and costs of invading iraq, it was the right choice. i could reverse that position in 10 minutes if i was presented with something persuasive enough.

no offense meant to you learyfan, but i find it ironic that someone who obsessively posts anti-bush pictures with almost every thread would be warning me about a possible emotional need to find reasons to support a particular cause in order to defend my "world view".


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: WMD: The Final Judgement [Re: ]
    #3232534 - 10/08/04 10:07 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

no offense meant to you learyfan, but i find it ironic that someone who obsessively posts anti-bush pictures with almost every thread would be warning me about a possible emotional need to find reasons to support a particular cause in order to defend my "world view".




I don't understand why that's ironic.





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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: WMD: The Final Judgement [Re: ]
    #3232637 - 10/08/04 10:35 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

he physically expelled them from iraq at least once,

No he didn't.

and on other occasions made it impossible for them to inspect certain sites or obtain documents, making it useless for them to stay.

No, he prevented them inspecting 4% of sites, usually his palaces, to prevent the CIA infiltrated "weapons inspectors" spying on his regime. Nothing to do with any "WMD".

you are suggesting that saddam hussein's regime was anything but uncooperative with weapons inspections

Sorry, but I'll have to go with the weapons inspectors who were actually there. Ritter said Iraq co-operated, so did Blix.


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: WMD: The Final Judgement [Re: Learyfan]
    #3233074 - 10/08/04 12:38 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Learyfan said:
In your opinion, why did Saddam need to be removed more than any of the other evil dictators?





I didn't say he NEEDED to be removed. I said America could have made a case to remove him. Especially if we waited until the war with Afghanistan was done, and bin Laden was dead. And a case could have been made WITHOUT ever mentioning WMD's.


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InvisibleEonTan
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Re: WMD: The Final Judgement [Re: Xlea321]
    #3234282 - 10/08/04 06:45 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Consult Butler. He has a different take on the inspections.

Are you just as confused as Saadam. Inspectors are SPIES.

BUTLER RAN UNSCOM not ritter. Blix came in after Butler was removed from his job for not Turning the blind eye.

Inspectors were not there to make Saadam feel comfortable, they were there on a JOB.

Spying on the Regime is what the inspectors were there for. It had everything to do with WMD, and disarming. What the hell does Iraq have that the USA doesn't? What could we have learned from his regime, that was beneficial to us. Did he invent some new form of torture that we could not think up on our own?

Saadam should just be thankful he had an entire Decade to continue his Bullshit, becasue of Pacifist like you. He should have been taken care of back in 1991. I think the world would have felt it more justified with the Kuwait invasion still fresh on the brain.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: WMD: The Final Judgement [Re: EonTan]
    #3235983 - 10/09/04 09:27 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Inspectors are SPIES

No, weapons inspectors are there to disarm the country, not to spy on the regime. That's why they were called weapons inspectors and not spies. The CIA infiltration of the weapons inspectors was common knowledge.

Saadam should just be thankful he had an entire Decade to continue his Bullshit

What bullshit? He had no WMD.

becasue of Pacifist like you

Pacifists made the decision not to invade Iraq in 1991?
I thought it was Bush's father who realised what his son didn't - that removing Saddam would unleash the unholiest of shitstorms and probably lead to a fundamentalist regime.


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Anonymous

Re: WMD: The Final Judgement [Re: Xlea321]
    #3236907 - 10/09/04 03:51 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

No he didn't.

yes he did. read the long list of news articles and UN sanctions i've provided.

No, he prevented them inspecting 4% of sites, usually his palaces, to prevent the CIA infiltrated "weapons inspectors" spying on his regime

source?

Ritter said Iraq co-operated

cooperated during what period of time?

what exactly did ritter say, and was this before or after the bribery?

so did Blix.

during what period of time? what were his exact words? did hans blix say that iraq consistantly cooperated with weapons inspectors throughout the entire decade? does he deny the published news reports i've provided here? does he believe that the UN got it all wrong when they issued almost a dozen resolutions condemning iraq for failure to cooperate?

some sources would be nice.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: WMD: The Final Judgement [Re: ]
    #3238743 - 10/10/04 09:02 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

yes he did.

No he didn't. The UN withdrew the weapons inspectors.

does he deny the published news reports i've provided here?

Which news reports are you referring to?

And no, I doubt Blix can be bothered to "doubt" news reports you can find in on the net in a two minute google search. He was too busy on the ground in Iraq actually searching for the weapons.

does he believe that the UN got it all wrong when they issued almost a dozen resolutions condemning iraq for failure to cooperate?

Why do you appeal to authority when the UN produces conclusions you agree with, yet reject it when the UN doesn't authorise an invasion?


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: WMD: The Final Judgement [Re: ]
    #3238751 - 10/10/04 09:12 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

and was this before or after the bribery?

Do you have a reliable and creditable source for this "bribery"? Or are you just going on what the notoriously unreliable and unbiased pink has told you?


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InvisibleGreat_Satan
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Re: WMD: The Final Judgement [Re: Xlea321]
    #3238753 - 10/10/04 09:17 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)



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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: WMD: The Final Judgement [Re: Great_Satan]
    #3238764 - 10/10/04 09:26 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Syria? I guess it makes about as much sense as pink's theory that they're in someone swimming pool.

:rolleyes:

And where are the Iraqis who built them? The Iraqis who moved them? The places where they were built? The raw materials they built them with?

Try and THINK germ.


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