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InvisibleVvellum
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U.S. study: 'Unlikely' Iraq shipped WMD to Syria
    #4098281 - 04/26/05 11:21 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/04/26/iraq.main/

Quote:

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- It is "unlikely" that Iraq shipped WMD material into Syria before the 2003 U.S.-led invasion, according to a newly released report by the Iraq Survey Group, a CIA/Pentagon team searching for Iraqi weapons programs.

The ISG said in an October 2004 report that the 1991 Persian Gulf War likely destroyed Iraq's capabilities of producing WMD, and that Iraq had none when the United States invaded in 2003...




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InvisibleGabbaDj
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Re: U.S. study: 'Unlikely' Iraq shipped WMD to Syria [Re: Vvellum]
    #4098315 - 04/26/05 11:32 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Wait? Sooo Sadam has been telling the truth all along?



Ill bet that if the guy got a real and fair trial he would come out innocent of most of the bull shit charged..


Things werent soo bad for Iraqis with Sadam in power. Things are much MUCH worse with us in charge. Its all gone back to gang thugs fighting to take controll and drug dealers running the show.


As for torture and rape and murder. Well, the US still has the largest non military police force, the largest prision population by far and citizens are gathered in groups and detained all the time. Many go to prision for small crimes where they are gang raped and yes tortured...

Anything someone can say about what happened to Iraqis with Sadam in charge can be said about America with any president in charge.


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Offlinesnoopaloop53
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Re: U.S. study: 'Unlikely' Iraq shipped WMD to Syria [Re: GabbaDj]
    #4098403 - 04/26/05 12:14 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Key word here "unlikely". With all the time Saddam was given that we would come in and be looking for him it isn't that difficult to believe that he would do a good job of getting rid of the evidence, he isn't an idiot by any stretch of the imagination. If the police put a letter on your door saying that they were going to come back in a month and search your house for drugs then you probably wouldn't have any drugs or paraphenalia.
It's not that difficult to hide the evidence that would prove guilt when one has weeks to hide it.


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InvisibleGabbaDj
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Re: U.S. study: 'Unlikely' Iraq shipped WMD to Syria [Re: snoopaloop53]
    #4098805 - 04/26/05 02:28 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

But in this situation the cops didnt come once and leave a note.. They came and stayed.

When this all started the inspectors were still inspecting and reporting that Sadam has no WMD's nor the capability to create them..

Add to that US sanctions and embargos on Iraq and the country was being starved into poverty leaving no room for such a program.

It was the Bush administration (daddy and son) that made up the whole idea of Iraq being the 4th axis of evil in the world when really Iraq was just trying to make something of themselves.


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: U.S. study: 'Unlikely' Iraq shipped WMD to Syria [Re: snoopaloop53]
    #4099058 - 04/26/05 03:23 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Their was no evidence to begin with, and all the information that suggested any proof of the ever-present BS coined term of "WMD!!" was based on very old reports (do some research).

The key words are "fabrication for bunk justifaction of war"; selling people a false sense of security for a true sense of infringement on civil rights is bullshit.

http://www.epic.org/privacy/terrorism/usapatriot/sunsetfoia.pdf
-I hope this piece of shit doesn't get renewed.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: U.S. study: 'Unlikely' Iraq shipped WMD to Syria [Re: Vvellum]
    #4099274 - 04/26/05 04:16 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Bushes own staff (Gen Powell) stated a year before 9-11 that Sadam had "No way of producing WMD".


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: U.S. study: 'Unlikely' Iraq shipped WMD to Syria [Re: niteowl]
    #4099758 - 04/26/05 06:53 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Hussein was in violation of the cease fire agreements which mandated inspections. Enough for me. As to the people of Iraq being starved because of sanctions please see anything about the Oil for Food scandal wherein moneys were diverted to various thieves' bank accounts rather than to the food and medicine specified. That the Iraqi people were better off under Saddass is laughable.


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: U.S. study: 'Unlikely' Iraq shipped WMD to Syria [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4099885 - 04/26/05 07:31 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I'm not suggesting they were... but if you want to utilize legal stances in your justification of the war... we could look to the Geneva convention, and the USA's gross violation of it in regards to not only the grounds for war, but the methods employed durring it.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: U.S. study: 'Unlikely' Iraq shipped WMD to Syria [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4099907 - 04/26/05 07:35 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

The grounds were sound, i.e. violation of the cease fire agreement. As to the prosecution of the war being in violation, I see only a very few and they have been dealt with appropriately. Where does the Geneva Convention weigh in on grounds for war anyway?


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: U.S. study: 'Unlikely' Iraq shipped WMD to Syria [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4099950 - 04/26/05 07:44 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I was referring to the methods employed Abu Ghraib, among other things concerning weapons violations (can provide info if you want). The grounds for war were just ridiculous and changed multiple times.

General history of reasons for the Iraq war.

Saddam and the WMD's>>> Saddam affiliated with Osama>>> Saddam is tied to 9/11>>> humanitarian reasons (to bring democracy)>>> Where we are now.

After each of the premises were proven wrong for the initial reasons to go to war, our actions regarding why we initiated the war, and further our justification for the war slowly changed to reflect our position that we have now of giving Iraq a puppet democracy. Unless someone wants to suggest that it was a legitimate election.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: U.S. study: 'Unlikely' Iraq shipped WMD to Syria [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4099989 - 04/26/05 07:53 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I don't think you were paying enough attention when the whole laundry list of reasons was given, all at the outset. One, however, was enough for me and that was the violation, for over a decade, of the cease fire agreement. This should have been finished in 1990 but no we had to give him a chance. Well he botched his chance. Still haven't heard how the G Con relates to acceptable justifications for war.
The criminals at Abu Graib are being prosecuted, as are some other bad actors elsewhere. Do you expect any group of over a hundred thousand people to be all law abiding? See Woodstock 2 a few years ago. There was quite an outrage about the level of violence there but it was pointed out that it was in line with any population of that size.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: U.S. study: 'Unlikely' Iraq shipped WMD to Syria [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4100012 - 04/26/05 07:58 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Please provide a link where it was stated by any Bush official that Saddass was tied to 9/11 as reason for war. Or Osama Bin Laden, either. His ties to terrorism in general were cited, not that specific act. I also don't think Bush & co. linked him to Osama at all until after, when a letter was found offering safe haven to Osama if he wanted it in light of his difficulty in Afghanistan


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Offlinecb9fl
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Re: U.S. study: 'Unlikely' Iraq shipped WMD to Syria [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4100025 - 04/26/05 08:01 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

One, however, was enough for me and that was the violation, for over a decade, of the cease fire agreement.

Are US violations of international law and covert terrorist support enough reasons for Central American countries to invade and bomb the US?


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It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: U.S. study: 'Unlikely' Iraq shipped WMD to Syria [Re: cb9fl]
    #4100053 - 04/26/05 08:10 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Please cite for me the cease fire agreement wherein we were required to DO ANYTHING.

What violations of international law?

What terrorists do we support?

And if they want to come, well then bring it on little girl.

Don't even bother me with the ridiculous assertions of the nut Chavez. Or Castro. The Kim Il Loons of the Americas.


--------------------


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: U.S. study: 'Unlikely' Iraq shipped WMD to Syria [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4100156 - 04/26/05 08:45 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Please provide a link where it was stated by any Bush official that Saddass was tied to 9/11 as reason for war. Or Osama Bin Laden, either. His ties to terrorism in general were cited, not that specific act. I also don't think Bush & co. linked him to Osama at all until after, when a letter was found offering safe haven to Osama if he wanted it in light of his difficulty in Afghanistan




http://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/jun2004/911-j18.shtml
do further research.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: U.S. study: 'Unlikely' Iraq shipped WMD to Syria [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4100175 - 04/26/05 08:55 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
1) Please cite for me the cease fire agreement wherein we were required to DO ANYTHING.

2) What violations of international law?

3) What terrorists do we support?

And if they want to come, well then bring it on little girl.

Don't even bother me with the ridiculous assertions of the nut Chavez. Or Castro. The Kim Il Loons of the Americas.




1) I can't believe you wrote that. Their are always stipulations
- http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=25050 (older info)
- http://www.lcnp.org/global/IraqOpinion10.9.02.pdf (UK source, but contains info regarding the agreements)

2)
- http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0330-09.htm
- http://www.physicsforums.com/archive/top...convention.html
- http://www.nancymatson.com/lessonplans/obj_HRW.htm
- http://www.asil.org/insights/insigh102.htm
You want more info?

3) We supported Afghanistan shortly before we invaded them as per stemming the outgrowth of the opium trade (the drug war); by directly funding them. We funded Saddam Hussein, and sold him the most of the weapons we took out in the gulf war.... we further supported his gassing of the kurds as we could've stopped it, yet sat by and allowed it to occur. Our actions are seen as terroristic to those countries we are at war with, essentially imdemnifying ourselves by virtue of the collective perceptions about our actions. Terrorism is a very loose definition in case you didn't realize it. We've directly supported many countries that we affiliate as breeding grounds for terrorists. We support Saudi Arabia which isn't much better then Afghanistan was in regards to tolerance, and humanitarianism... I can go on and on if you like, although I don't feel it necessary.

Iraq Chronology:
- http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/iraqchron.html

*Their is plenty of information to confirm this, if you want more info it's more then available on the internet.*


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: U.S. study: 'Unlikely' Iraq shipped WMD to Syria [Re: GabbaDj]
    #4100434 - 04/26/05 10:18 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

GabbaDj said:
Wait? Sooo Sadam has been telling the truth all along?



Ill bet that if the guy got a real and fair trial he would come out innocent of most of the bull shit charged..


Things werent soo bad for Iraqis with Sadam in power. Things are much MUCH worse with us in charge. Its all gone back to gang thugs fighting to take controll and drug dealers running the show.


As for torture and rape and murder. Well, the US still has the largest non military police force, the largest prision population by far and citizens are gathered in groups and detained all the time. Many go to prision for small crimes where they are gang raped and yes tortured...

Anything someone can say about what happened to Iraqis with Sadam in charge can be said about America with any president in charge.




He would be charged for crimes against peace and crimes against humanity in a fair trial.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: U.S. study: 'Unlikely' Iraq shipped WMD to Syria [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4100508 - 04/26/05 10:37 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Hussein was in violation of the cease fire agreements which mandated inspections. Enough for me.




I agree, that's worth the over 13,000 American troops killed or wounded, over $165,000,000,000 spent, and the tens of thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians killed.

Since when is it the United States' job to be the world police? Especially when that self-appointed job means we have to take almost all of the problems, other than the Iraqis themselves of course.

I'm glad not everyone takes the bait for killing our troops and squandering our tax dollars so easily eh? Otherwise we'd be many times more in debt, with even more dead soldiers and an army fighting in a plethora of countries across the globe.

There will always be countries that cause minor problems like Iraq. Something should have been done by the world, I agree with that. I don't agree with launching a hasty pre-emptive war that diverts so much of our already precious tax dollars and kills mostly American troops and innocent Iraqi civilians. War should be the last solution, but when the current government dealt with Iraq they made it one of our first.

With such an attitude, the American empire will stretch itself and waste its resources, eventually collapsing because it felt like being the world police rather than letting the world unify to deal with itself. America should put its resources to healing itself rather than creating these Vietnam re-enactments in the modern world.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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InvisibleAutonomous
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Re: U.S. study: 'Unlikely' Iraq shipped WMD to Syria [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4100559 - 04/26/05 10:51 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Iraq was contained, it was no threat to the U.S. and never was. It had the most secular government in the area - Christians were even in Hussein's government. Today, Christians in Iraq are less safe to openly practice their faith. There is more ill will THE WORLD OVER towards the U.S. and U.S. citizens. The U.S. government's actions have served as a recruiting tool for terrorists. Iraq's infrastructure was further destroyed by U.S. government actions. There are more Iraqis dead today as a result of U.S. government actions. There are more U.S. citizens dead today as a result of U.S. government actions. There is more debt today burdening the U.S. taxpayers and future generations. The U.N. DID NOT authorize the U.S. invasion.

Judging by the actions of the Iraqis themselves, any reasonable person can conclude that they were more inclined to suffer under the dictatorship of Hussein than they are to suffer under U.S. occupation... or do you care to deny the actions of the insurgents against the U.S. backed authority, the U.S. government soldiers, the U.S. funded mercenaries and commercial interests?


--------------------
"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain


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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: U.S. study: 'Unlikely' Iraq shipped WMD to Syria [Re: zappaisgod]
    #4101146 - 04/27/05 02:10 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

zappaisgod.....are you serious.

Where have you been for the last few years?

The reasons for the war in Iraq were B.S.

Bushes primary reason to invade Iraq was his stock piles of WMD.

Where are they?

And as for "What terrorists do we support?"...how about Osama. Do a search on the Bush-Osama connection.

We have also been supporting Saudi Arabia for a long time. (most of the terrorist were from S.A.)

How about Saddam? We were his biggest supporters for a long time too.

You are either one of Bushes children....or have been completely brainwashed by the Bushes administration.


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