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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Iraq Survey Group concludes "No WMD"
    #3116863 - 09/10/04 02:07 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Game, set and match.

New blow to Blair over Iraq

Report concludes no WMD as PM completes reshuffle

Michael White, Patrick Wintour and Kevin Maguire
Friday September 10, 2004
The Guardian

Tony Blair will be confronted with a fresh challenge over Iraq within the next two weeks when the long-awaited final report of the Iraq Survey Group concludes there were no weapons of mass destruction in the country at the time of the US-UK invasion.

The Guardian has learned that the team of weapons inspectors sent in by Washington and London at the end of the war to comb Iraq will find that though the threat of Saddam Hussein was real, there were no stockpiles.

Although it has been obvious since last year that the Iraq Survey Group was unlikely to unearth anything, its final verdict is an embarrassment to President Bush and Mr Blair.

Before the invasion, both governments claimed Saddam had a covert programme to produce chemical and biological weapons, to manufacture ballistic missiles and had renewed its search for a nuclear bomb. Mr Blair did, however, soften his stance in July, telling MPs: "I have to accept that we have not found them and that we may not find them."

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/labour/story/0,9061,1301434,00.html


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OfflineSkikid16
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Registered: 06/27/02
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Re: Iraq Survey Group concludes "No WMD" [Re: Xlea321]
    #3116902 - 09/10/04 02:19 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Alex, once again, you fail to see the main point, we didn't go because of WMD's we went to free the Iraqis......DUH......


AHAHAHAHAHHAAH.......

Don't you just love how Pre-invasion, it seemed that Bush's favorite catch frase was "Weapons of Mass Destructon", and now its "the world is safer with Saddam gone".

I mean, WHAT THE FUCK?

American People=sheep

Bush Doctrine=wool

Do the rest yourself.


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Re-Defeat Bush in '04


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OfflineJesusChrist
Son Of God
Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 1,459
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
American Survey Group concludes "No JFK" [Re: Xlea321]
    #3116962 - 09/10/04 02:39 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Game, set and match.

New blow to Kerry over the electorate

Report concludes nobody has ever liked John Kerry outside of direct relatives

Richard Face, Jack Meoff, and Maikqur Cuhmhard
Friday September 10, 2004
The American Public

John Forbes Kerry will be confronted with a fresh challenge on the electorate over the next eight weeks when the long-awaited final report of Federal Election Survey Group concludes there were no votes for horse faced, traitorous, weak kneed liberals.

The American Public has learned that the team of polling inspectors sent in by Washington and London at the begining of the election to comb America for any remaining liberals will find that though the threat of liberal idiocy was real, there were no stockpiles.

Although it has been obvious since the Lydon Johnson administration that the Survey Group was unlikely to unearth anything substantive, its final verdict is an embarrassment to liberals and activists everywhere.

Before the Great Society, liberal democrats claimed to have solutions to everyone's problems. John Kerry claimed to have a covert programme to produce biological voters, to produce manufacturing jobs, and dance with the North Vietnamese. The voters have never materialized. Mr Kerry did, however, soften his stance in September, telling the AP: "I have to accept that we have not found them and that we may not find them."


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OfflineSkikid16
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Re: American Survey Group concludes "No JFK" [Re: JesusChrist]
    #3116980 - 09/10/04 02:43 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Richard Face, Jack Meoff, and Maikqur Cuhmhard



  :rotfl: :thanx:


Nice man, nice.... :thumbup:


I just wish I was stoned for that one.


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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: Iraq Survey Group concludes "No WMD" [Re: Xlea321]
    #3116986 - 09/10/04 02:45 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

The Guardian has learned that the team of weapons inspectors sent in by Washington and London at the end of the war to comb Iraq will find that though the threat of Saddam Hussein was real , there were no stockpiles.




Does this mean nothing? Many have argued this the whole time.

The preliminary report and subsequent finds prove Saddam was infact A) intent on aquiring the weapons B) maintaing capability to that end C) not in agreement with his obligations.

Did they misjudge the current scope and capability? Almost certainly. But I don't think it was the result of some conspiracy. I believe it was an honest mistake.
If he hadn't been violating his agreements, he could have proven it. He wouldn't have had any need to act suspicious. The inspectors would have never been denied access.

Even though stockpiles may not be found, if he was intent on aquiring these weapons and his agreements meant nothing, there was nothing stopping him (or worse, one of his sons)from eventually achieving that goal. He had his chance(s) to come clean and he chose not to.

He is to blaim by reason of breach of contract. If your contract is a ceasefire and you break it, the bullets come back. His fault, not the US.

But thanks for trying.


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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


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InvisibleVvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
Re: Iraq Survey Group concludes "No WMD" [Re: Skikid16]
    #3117015 - 09/10/04 02:51 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

actually, if you recall the Bush Inc. rhetoric went as followed:

1. "regime change"
2. "regime change" unpopular
3. "WMD!!"
4. "WMD!!"? oh shit!
5. No WMD.
6. "uh - democracy!"

I wonder what the next line will be when Iraq breaks down further into civil war and another 1000 dead american kids come home in coffins.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: Iraq Survey Group concludes "No WMD" [Re: Xlea321]
    #3117577 - 09/10/04 06:53 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

This bothers me. President Bush gave WMD's as the main reason
to go to war with Iraq, and it turns out that they didn't have any.
I understand the arguments that Saddam was not in compliance with
the UN resolutions, made efforts to obtain certain things, etc...
but it appears as if he had no WMD capabilities.

How could the intelligence community have messed up so badly?
*shakes head*

Now that the U.S. is in it, we can't leave or Iraq will fall to
the Islamic fundamentalists, Iran, or some other terrible group.
These options are not acceptable.

I cross my fingers and hope everything turns out ok.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Iraq Survey Group concludes "No WMD" [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3117615 - 09/10/04 07:43 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

> How could the intelligence community have messed up so badly?

Because this is the real world and not some movie. For intelligence community to function, undercover operatives must be in place to report back what they see happening. It takes a lot of time and effort to establish these pathways, and obviously, the Clinton administration did nothing here. (I am not blaming Clinton, just saying that it takes a long time to set this kind of stuff up.)

Saddam was also not helping the situtation. He was pretending that he had WMDs on one side and claiming that he didn't have them on the other. He made it hard, if not impossible, for the UN inspectors to do their jobs. He tried to play poker with the world, bluffed, and got called on his bluff.

We can all look back and say, "Gee, France and Germany were correct", but this is a very shallow view. There was just as likely a chance that we could be looking back and say, "Gee, France and Germany were wrong". Nobody knew for sure. Had Saddam opened up everything for UN inspectors, things would be much different today (I would hope).

What worries me is if Bush did know that there were no WMDs and lied to the public, and other governments. None of us will ever know for sure what the Bush admin did or did not know before the attack. To me, at this point, it doesn't really matter... regardless of the cause, we have created one huge @#!ing mess, and we need to clean up the mess first and worry about blame later.


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Just another spore in the wind.


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Iraq Survey Group concludes "No WMD" [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #3117929 - 09/10/04 12:04 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Does this mean nothing? Many have argued this the whole time.

Surely you're not seriously saying countries should be allowed to invade anywhere they think might conceivably, at any point in the future, be a "threat"?

Even ones 5000 miles away on another continent?

He is to blaim by reason of breach of contract

Nope, not a single contract ever said "If you don't do this we invade Iraq". If you mean UN resolution 641 all it said was Iraq has to "accept" the terms of the ceasefire. That's an important and deliberate legal point.

If your contract is a ceasefire and you break it, the bullets come back

What contract are you referring to?


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Iraq Survey Group concludes "No WMD" [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3117939 - 09/10/04 12:08 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

How could the intelligence community have messed up so badly?

I don't think they did. Certainly the british intelligence agency have said they were absolutely stunned by the interpretations Blair and Bush were putting on the intelligence they were providing. They knew the evidence for WMD was at best, incredibly weak, but that wasn't what Bush and Blair wanted to hear.


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OfflineGazzBut
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Registered: 10/15/02
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Re: Iraq Survey Group concludes "No WMD" [Re: Seuss]
    #3117974 - 09/10/04 12:15 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

For intelligence community to function, undercover operatives must be in place to report back what they see happening. It takes a lot of time and effort to establish these pathways, and obviously, the Clinton administration did nothing here.




Seuus perhaps you'd care to explain why in 2002 the intelligence community informed the US that Iraq had no WMD, was not a threat and had been effectively contained by sanctions? Or perhaps Powell and Rice made these assertions without consulting the intel community.

How, in such a short space of time, do intelligence assesments change so radically and when there are 2 such differing assesments made in a short time frame how can you be so sure that one is correct to the point of going to war on the strength of it?

To me it seems there was a hell of alot of spin, to the point of lying. Bush and Co wanted that war and they were going to get it one way or another. To me, that much seems crystal clear.


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InvisibleVvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
Re: Iraq Survey Group concludes "No WMD" [Re: Xlea321]
    #3118025 - 09/10/04 12:34 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

They knew the evidence for WMD was at best, incredibly weak, but that wasn't what Bush and Blair wanted to hear.




that pretty much sums it up.


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

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Re: Iraq Survey Group concludes "No WMD" [Re: GazzBut]
    #3118075 - 09/10/04 12:45 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Seuus perhaps you'd care to explain why in 2002 the intelligence community informed the US that Iraq had no WMD, was not a threat and had been effectively contained by sanctions? Or perhaps Powell and Rice made these assertions without consulting the intel community.




I honestly don't know, as I was not there... but I suspect that there were different opinions within the intel communitity and that we are seeing the results of the two sides in disagreement. The Bush admin, of course, would go with the side which furthered their agenda of war in Iraq with Saddam.

> Bush and Co wanted that war and they were going to get it one way or another.

At the time I would have disagreed with you, but looking back, unfortunately, I think you are probably correct.


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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

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Re: Iraq Survey Group concludes "No WMD" [Re: Seuss]
    #3118139 - 09/10/04 01:02 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

The Bush admin, of course, would go with the side which furthered their agenda of war in Iraq with Saddam.





Thats what you would think, so it seems strange that only a short while before the build up to war started Powell and Rice chose to go with the other side of the intel community. (If indeed such a split ever truly existed)Id say it was highly unlikely that these two were acting independently and not towing the party line, wouldnt you?


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Iraq Survey Group concludes "No WMD" [Re: GazzBut]
    #3118152 - 09/10/04 01:05 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

At the time they were trying to justify the horrendous civilian suffering caused by sanctions on Iraq by insisting they had saved the world from WMD.


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Iraq Survey Group concludes "No WMD" [Re: Xlea321]
    #3118228 - 09/10/04 01:31 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

That could be it. Its always hard to second guess a bunch of twisted minds like that though!!


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Iraq Survey Group concludes "No WMD" [Re: Seuss]
    #3118740 - 09/10/04 03:34 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Seuus writes:

We can all look back and say, "Gee, France and Germany were correct", but this is a very shallow view.

The French and German intelligence services were also saying that Iraq had chem and bio weaponry. Everyone was.

pinky


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Iraq Survey Group concludes "No WMD" [Re: Xlea321]
    #3118755 - 09/10/04 03:38 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

The key phrases in the article are these:

...no weapons of mass destruction in the country at the time of the US-UK invasion.

and

...the threat of Saddam Hussein was real...




pinky


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: Iraq Survey Group concludes "No WMD" [Re: Phred]
    #3118768 - 09/10/04 03:40 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

...the threat of Saddam Hussein was real...





You are painfully gullible!


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Iraq Survey Group concludes "No WMD" [Re: GazzBut]
    #3118806 - 09/10/04 03:52 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

It seems the people quoted in the article are the ones who are painfully gullible.

pinky


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