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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
A year in the life of the WMD-ometer
    #2940122 - 07/29/04 12:43 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

366: A YEAR IN THE LIFE OF THE WMD-OMETER Apr 30 2004

By Justine Smith

A YEAR has gone since the search for WMD in Iraq began in earnest.

More than 1,400 inspectors have been unable to unearth a shred of evidence they existed - after Tony Blair insisted we had no choice but to disarm Saddam.

So far 841 Allied servicemen and women have died.

An estimated 17,000-plus Iraqis have been killed

The Mirror has recorded the fruitless weapons search day by day with our WMD-ometer. This is the story of the hunt for WMD.

MAY 1 2003: No WMD found

MAY 2: No WMD found

MAY 3: No WMD found

MAY 4: Biological weapons expert Huda Salih Mahdi Ammash "Chemical Sally" detained. No WMD found

MAY 5: No WMD found

MAY 6: No WMD found

MAY 7: No WMD found

MAY 8: No WMD found

MAY 9: Suspect trailers found at missile lab in al-Kindi.

MAY 10: No WMD found

MAY 11: No WMD found

MAY 12: Scientist Rihad Rashid Taha held. US and UK say captures of Ammash and Taha hold vital clues in their hunt. No WMD found.

MAY 13: No WMD found

MAY 14: No WMD found

MAY 15: No WMD found

MAY 16: No WMD found

MAY 17: No WMD found

MAY 18: No WMD found

MAY 19: No WMD found

MAY 20: No WMD found

MAY 21: No WMD found

MAY 22: No WMD found

MAY 23: No WMD found

MAY 24: No WMD found

MAY 25: No WMD found

MAY 26: No WMD found

MAY 27: No WMD found

JUNE 1: No WMD found

JUNE 2: State Department memo says US does not believe trailers found were mobile weapon factories.

JUNE 3: No WMD found

JUNE 4: No WMD found

JUNE 5: No WMD found

JUNE 6: No WMD found

JUNE 7: Manufacturers of "mobile biological factory" trailers say they were built to make hydrogen for artillery weather balloons.

JUNE 8: No WMD found

JUNE 9: No WMD found

JUNE 10: No WMD found

JUNE 11: No WMD found

JUNE 12: No WMD found.

JUNE 13: No WMD found

JUNE 14: No WMD found

JUNE 15: No WMD found

JUNE 16: No WMD found

JUNE 17: No WMD found

JUNE 18: No WMD found

JUNE 19: No WMD found

JUNE 20: No WMD found

JUNE 21: No WMD found

JUNE 22: No WMD found

JUNE 23: No WMD found

JUNE 24: No WMD found

JUNE 25: No WMD found

JUNE 26: No WMD found

JUNE 27: No WMD found

JUNE 28: No WMD found

JUNE 29: No WMD found

JUNE 30: No WMD found

JULY 1: No WMD found

JULY 2: No WMD found

JULY 3: No WMD found

JULY 4: No WMD found

JULY 5: No WMD found

JULY 6: No WMD found

JULY 7: No WMD found

JULY 8: No WMD found

JULY 9: No WMD found

JULY 10: No WMD found

JULY 11: No WMD found

JULY 12: No WMD found

JULY 13: No WMD found

JULY 14: No WMD found

JULY 15: No WMD found

JULY 16: No WMD found

JULY 17: No WMD found

JULY 18: No WMD found

JULY 19: No WMD found

JULY 20: No WMD found

JULY 21: No WMD found

JULY 22: No WMD found

JULY 23: No WMD found

JULY 24: No WMD found

JULY 25: No WMD found

JULY 26: No WMD found

JULY 27: No WMD found

JULY 28: No WMD found

JULY 29: No WMD found

JULY 30: No WMD found

JULY 31: No WMD found

AUGUST 1: No WMD found

AUGUST 2: No WMD found

AUGUST 3: No WMD found

AUGUST 4: No WMD found

AUGUST 5: No WMD found

AUGUST 6: No WMD found

AUGUST 7: No WMD found

AUGUST 8: No WMD found

AUGUST 9: No WMD found

AUGUST 10: No WMD found

AUGUST 11: No WMD found

AUGUST 12: No WMD found

AUGUST 13: No WMD found

AUGUST 14: No WMD found

AUGUST 15: No WMD found

AUGUST 16: No WMD found

AUGUST 17: No WMD found

AUGUST 18: No WMD found

AUGUST 19: No WMD found

AUGUST 20: No WMD found

AUGUST 21: No WMD found

AUGUST 22: No WMD found

AUGUST 23: No WMD found

AUGUST 24: No WMD found

AUGUST 25: No WMD found

AUGUST 26: No WMD found

AUGUST 27: No WMD found

AUGUST 28: No WMD found

AUGUST 29: No WMD found

AUGUST 30: No WMD found

AUGUST 31: No WMD found

SEPT 1: No WMD found

SEPT 2: No WMD found

SEPT 3: No WMD found

SEPT 4: No WMD found

SEPT 5: No WMD found

SEPT 6: No WMD found

SEPT 7: No WMD found

SEPT 8: No WMD found

SEPT 9: No WMD found

SEPT 10: No WMD found

OCTOBER 5: Former Foreign Secretary Robin Cook claims that intelligence he was shown before the invasion indicated Saddam probably did not have WMD.






http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/tm_...-name_page.html


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: A year in the life of the WMD-ometer [Re: Xlea321]
    #2940366 - 07/29/04 01:46 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

i'm sensing a pattern


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

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InvisibleKingOftheThing
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Re: A year in the life of the WMD-ometer [Re: Innvertigo]
    #2940379 - 07/29/04 01:49 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

its too bad sadam didnt keep any of those chemical weapons bush's daddy sold him...would've helped bushy jr.


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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: A year in the life of the WMD-ometer [Re: Xlea321]
    #2940554 - 07/29/04 02:39 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

MAY 3: Two weeks ago, U.S. military units discovered mustard gas that was used as part of an IED. Tests conducted by the Iraqi Survey Group (search) ? a U.S. organization searching for weapons of mass destruction ? and others concluded the mustard gas was "stored improperly," which made the gas "ineffective."

They believe the mustard gas shell may have been one of 550 projectiles for which former Iraqi President Saddam Hussein failed to account when he made his weapons declaration shortly before Operation Iraqi Freedom began last year. Iraq also failed to then account for 450 aerial bombs with mustard gas. That, combined with the shells, totaled about 80 tons of unaccounted for mustard gas.

Gazi George, a former Iraqi nuclear scientist under Saddam's regime, told Fox News he believes many similar weapons stockpiled by the former regime were either buried underground or transported to Syria. He noted that the airport where the device was detonated is on the way to Baghdad from the Syrian border.


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,120137,00.html

MAY 17 : Shell containing sarin gas was detonated

Artillery shells of the 155-mm size are as big as it gets when it comes to the ordnance lobbed by infantry-based artillery units. The 155 howitzer can launch high capacity shells over several miles; current models used by the United States can fire shells as far as 14 miles. One official told Fox News that a conventional 155-mm shell could hold as much as "two to five" liters of sarin, which is capable of killing thousands of people under the right conditions in highly populated areas.

JUL 1 :

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - About a dozen artillery shells found in Iraq by Polish troops are being checked for sarin after initial tests were positive for the nerve agent, U.S. officials said on Thursday.

The shells, which date from before Iraq's 1991 invasion of Kuwait, were undergoing further testing because initial tests can sometimes be misleading, a U.S. intelligence official said.

Two shells found earlier in Iraq have been confirmed to contain sarin.

Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, in an interview with San Diego, California, radio station KOGO on Wednesday, said he was told by Poland's defense minister at the NATO summit in Turkey last weekend that Polish troops had discovered 16 or 17 warheads that contained sarin and mustard gas.

"Now these are weapons that we always knew Saddam Hussein had that he had not declared, and they have tested them and I have not seen them and I have not tested them, but they believe that they are correct that these, in fact, were undeclared chemical weapons -- sarin and mustard gas -- quite lethal and that is a discovery that just occurred within the last period of days," Rumsfeld said, according to a transcript of the interview released by the Pentagon on Thursday.

The intelligence official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said early indications were the shells had sarin and not mustard gas.

The Iraq Survey Group has been hunting for weapons of mass destruction following the U.S.-led invasion, but has not discovered any large stockpiles of biological and chemical weapons.

The discovery of these shells also does not answer the question of whether Iraq produced chemical weapons after the 1991 Gulf War.

The main justification for the U.S.-led war against Iraq last year was a perceived threat from weapons of mass destruction.

The CIA-appointed head of the hunt for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Charles Duelfer, is expected to issue a report in late summer or early fall about what he believes happened to Iraq's WMD.

The military leader of the Iraq Survey Group recently changed, with Army Maj. Gen. Keith Dayton returning to the United States because his tour of duty was finished. He was replaced by Marine Brig. Gen. Joseph McMenamin.
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=5568967

Saddam Hussein?s government only disclosed the testing and production after Iraqi weapons chief Lt. Gen. Hussein Kamel al-Majid*, Saddam?s son-in-law, defected in 1995. Saddam?s government never declared any sarin or shells filled with sarin remained.

*This was the nephew of "Chemical Ali", and was later lured back to Iraq when Saddam said he just wanted them to come home. He then was then beheaded under orderders from the ever gracious Saddam.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5060648/


--------------------
I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: A year in the life of the WMD-ometer [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2940566 - 07/29/04 02:42 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

This says nothing of the missle programs he was obligated to not have any part of but did.


--------------------
I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: A year in the life of the WMD-ometer [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2940656 - 07/29/04 03:07 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

How does a 20 year old artillery round equate to a WMD program?


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Offlinewingnutx
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Re: A year in the life of the WMD-ometer [Re: Xlea321]
    #2940671 - 07/29/04 03:09 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Shells don't make themselves. Sarin does not spontaneously generate. Somebody has to invest a huge amount of capital to produce these. This process is known as a program.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Posts: 9,134
Re: A year in the life of the WMD-ometer [Re: wingnutx]
    #2940677 - 07/29/04 03:11 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Yes, we know he had a program 20 years ago because we were supplying him with everything he needed. But we didn't invade him then. The point is whether he had a program in 2003.


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Offlinewingnutx
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Re: A year in the life of the WMD-ometer [Re: Xlea321]
    #2940736 - 07/29/04 03:24 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

That binary shell is a lot newer than that. Iraq certified that it did not have that sort of tech to the UN.

FWIW, Charles Duelfer (David Kay's replacment, a former U.N. weapons inspector) recently put the count of such shells found at around 35, some sarin some mustard. I guess we shall see.

Give me your snail-mail address, and I will send anything I find to you for analysis.


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OfflineSquattingMarmot
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Re: A year in the life of the WMD-ometer [Re: wingnutx]
    #2940815 - 07/29/04 03:42 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Well why don't we check in with what Kay has to say.

Yahoo News

Quote:

U.S. officials should give up the "delusional hope" that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction so they can move forward with reform, David Kay, who once led the U.S. hunt for banned weapons, said on Wednesday.

"I think it's most important that the president of the United States recognizes that in fact the weapons are not there," Kay told reporters after speaking at The Government Security Expo and Conference.

"It's because until you do that you will not take this fundamental reorganization of the intel community on board," he said. Officials such as acting CIA Director John McLaughlin "hold out the delusional hope that eventually you'll find weapons," Kay said.

Kay stepped down from the CIA-appointed position of chief U.S. weapons hunter in January, and said he did not believe Iraq had banned weapons when the United States invaded.






Edited by SquattingMarmot (07/29/04 03:45 PM)


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
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Re: A year in the life of the WMD-ometer [Re: Xlea321]
    #2941181 - 07/29/04 05:35 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Interesting to note that you've added "program" to your no WMD claim.

While the shells are old and not worth a war, it shows the folly of your habit of making blanket statements.

As some have been found, you are once again wrong.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
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Re: A year in the life of the WMD-ometer [Re: Xlea321]
    #2941187 - 07/29/04 05:37 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

The point is whether he had a program in 2003.



Wrong. The point is did he comply with the terms of the surrender.

Obviously, he did not.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: A year in the life of the WMD-ometer [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2941443 - 07/29/04 06:34 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:


Wrong. The point is did he comply with the terms of the surrender.

Obviously, he did not.




Exactamundo!


--------------------
I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: A year in the life of the WMD-ometer [Re: Xlea321]
    #2941457 - 07/29/04 06:37 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

It equates to a WMD, not program. Your claim (through the pseudo-article you posted) was that none had been found. You were wrong and so was the author.


--------------------
I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: A year in the life of the WMD-ometer [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2942830 - 07/30/04 01:59 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

A 20 year old dud artillery round amounts to a WMD? Are you serious?

The US could clear up how old the shell is quite simply - by offering it up for analysis. So far they have failed to do so.

You were wrong and so was the author.

Actually, Squatting posted that. And the author was David Kay - the man Bush handpicked to find WMD. And he calls it "delusional" to think they are there.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: A year in the life of the WMD-ometer [Re: wingnutx]
    #2942836 - 07/30/04 02:01 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

FWIW, Charles Duelfer (David Kay's replacment, a former U.N. weapons inspector) recently put the count of such shells found at around 35, some sarin some mustard. I guess we shall see.

Do you have a source for this? I know there was a report in 1999. Is that the one you're referring to?


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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: A year in the life of the WMD-ometer [Re: Xlea321]
    #2943034 - 07/30/04 03:16 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Alex, I don't care what anybody else says about you.  Your pure comedy.  :laugh:  I'm convinced you say these thing just for our benefit, and the others just don't grasp the humor in what you do.  I hope you never leave.  :heart:

Actually, Squatting posted that. And the author was David Kay - the man Bush handpicked to find WMD. And he calls it "delusional" to think they are there.

We'll deal with this first.  This is  your thread in which  you posted a piece by Justine Smith from the Mirror.  In this piece she claims - and by extension you - that  no WMD has been found.  This is obviously false.  She - and by extension you - was wrong. 

A 20 year old dud artillery round amounts to a WMD? Are you serious?  The US could clear up how old the shell is quite simply - by offering it up for analysis. So far they have failed to do so.

This was no dud.  It wasn't properly deployed so the damage was minimal, but the components were there.  Given the motivation of the terrorists, if they have these in their possession, it's only a matter of time before they can figure out an effective way to utilize the shells.  Either through ingenuity or dumb luck.

I have no doubt these shells are probably old.  But it is most certainly WMD.  If one drop is enough to kill someone  quickly, and each shell contains between 2 to 5 liters, I don't see how this wouldn't qualify as a WMD.  These are the weapons he claimed he destroyed.  This is also obviously not true.

Do you deny he was in violation of his obligations?


--------------------
I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: A year in the life of the WMD-ometer [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #2943601 - 07/30/04 07:26 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

They believe the mustard gas shell may have been one of 550 projectiles for which former Iraqi President Saddam Hussein failed to account




They believe do they? I prefer proof myself..how bout you?

Quote:

Gazi George, a former Iraqi nuclear scientist under Saddam's regime, told Fox News he believes many similar weapons stockpiled by the former regime were either buried underground or transported to Syria. He noted that the airport where the device was detonated is on the way to Baghdad from the Syrian border.





other members of the same team claimed Iraq had destroyed all WMDs in the 90's...still a matter of beliefs with no actual proof. (perhaps proof is irrelevant to you!)

Quote:

MAY 17 : Shell containing sarin gas was detonated





So as far as facts go we have one shell containing mustard gas that has gone off and one shell containing sarin. Wow!

Quote:

The discovery of these shells also does not answer the question of whether Iraq produced chemical weapons after the 1991 Gulf War.





At the end of the day its hardly inconceivable that some shells slipped through the net if/when the majority of Iraq's WMD's were destroyed is it?

Quote:

The CIA-appointed head of the hunt for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Charles Duelfer, is expected to issue a report in late summer or early fall about what he believes happened to Iraq's WMD.





But will we get to see what the CIA really think or what Bush and Co would like the CIA to think??


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Always Smi2le


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: A year in the life of the WMD-ometer [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2943603 - 07/30/04 07:28 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Wrong. The point is did he comply with the terms of the surrender.

Obviously, he did not.




Can you give me a run down on exactly how Iraq failed to comply with the surrender agreement if its not too much trouble?


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InvisibleCJay
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Re: A year in the life of the WMD-ometer [Re: SquattingMarmot]
    #2943652 - 07/30/04 07:59 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Just to add valuable fuel to your already excellent case:


"We expected, I expected to find actual usable, chemical or biological weapons after we entered Iraq. But I have to accept, as the months have passed, it seems increasingly clear that at the time of invasion, Saddam did not have stockpiles of chemical or biological weapons ready to deploy."
(Tony Blair 14/07/04)

"They put exclamation marks where there had been question marks and I think that is hyping, a spin, that leads the public to the wrong conclusions." (Hans Blix)


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