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Anonymous

Love
    #3189970 - 09/28/04 03:00 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I love love. It's a good thing. I'm talking about loving a woman. Nothing else, so don't turn this into a gay pride or save the rainforest/children of the world type thread. I think I need to get this moved the the Pub, cause then that last sentence would apply even more. I don't mean being "in love" though, oh no. I'm pretty sure that is just an emotion that I am not suitably built to produce, for some reason I do not know. I think that's why monogamy never really works out all that great for me. I am capable of having love for plenty ladies but I never can fall in love with them. When you realize what love really is, it's hard to. It's simply a chemical in your brain. You are attracted to some other person, your brain releases combinations of chemicals that produce the sensation of "love", you let this continue, it get's stronger, your brain becomes addicted to this feeling and it's too late,you are in love. Love is like heroin, people; don't fool yourselves. And in fact, just as dangerous. Think about all the people that have died or done crazy shit over it, history wouldn't even be the same if men didn't get their minds clouded with pussy. Some of the greatest rulers of all time fucked up and let some chick be their downfall. It's kinda funny to me. I just don't get it. How you see people looking all shitty and sick like a fucking puppy walking around all broke down inside. Ha, you fail to realize just how congruent you are to a common junkie. There is nothing wrong with love. I love to give and recieve it. I don't like to be IN love though, and actually now that I think of it, that's a good way to describe it, "being IN LOVE", I don't want to be in it, I don't want to enveloped in it. It will blind you to a lot of things. Especially the main reasons why you shouldn't be IN love, if there are any reasons. But trust me, there's always reasons. It's alright to feel it just don't let it control your actions. Don't become a junkie.


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Invisible2Experimental
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Re: Love [Re: Anonymous]
    #3190203 - 09/28/04 03:58 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

paradis said:
      I love love. It's a good thing. I'm talking about loving a woman. Nothing else, so don't turn this into a gay pride or save the rainforest/children of the world type thread. I think I need to get this moved the the Pub, cause then that last sentence would apply even more. I don't mean being "in love" though, oh no. I'm pretty sure that is just an emotion that I am not suitably built to produce, for some reason I do not know.





        I think that's why monogamy never really works out all that great for me. I am capable of having love for plenty ladies but I never can fall in love with them. When you realize what love really is, it's hard to. It's simply a chemical in your brain. You are attracted to some other person, your brain releases combinations of chemicals that produce the sensation of "love", you let this continue, it get's stronger, your brain becomes addicted to this feeling and it's too late,you are in love.






        Love is like heroin, people; don't fool yourselves. And in fact, just as dangerous. Think about all the people that have died or done crazy shit over it, history wouldn't even be the same if men didn't get their minds clouded with pussy. Some of the greatest rulers of all time fucked up and let some chick be their downfall. It's kinda funny to me. I just don't get it. How you see people looking all shitty and sick like a fucking puppy walking around all broke down inside. Ha, you fail to realize just how congruent you are to a common junkie. There is nothing wrong with love. I love to give and recieve it. I don't like to be IN love though, and actually now that I think of it, that's a good way to describe it, "being IN LOVE", I don't want to be in it, I don't want to enveloped in it.





It will blind you to a lot of things. Especially the main reasons why you shouldn't be IN love, if there are any reasons. But trust me, there's always reasons. It's alright to feel it just don't let it control your actions. Don't become a junkie.




paragraphs = key







I dunno.. I think it sounds like you got burned and or feel hurt... love is the point of life... I like being bitter, but I hang in there because somehow I love SOMETHING about my life, whether it be women or otherwise.. I think you may have gone overboard with calling love dangerous, but maybe not..Without love what will there be for you? sex? money? fun? drugs? it will fill the void for a while, but I always go back to :heart:


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Invisible2Experimental
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Re: Love [Re: 2Experimental]
    #3190213 - 09/28/04 04:00 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

this brings up another question for s n p, is dying for love a worthy cause?


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Anonymous

Re: Love [Re: 2Experimental]
    #3190405 - 09/28/04 05:23 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

I think it sounds like you got burned and or feel hurt


Nope.
You need to read it again.


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: Love [Re: Anonymous]
    #3190491 - 09/28/04 06:37 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

I love love. It's a good thing. I'm talking about loving a woman. Nothing else, so don't turn this into a gay




Love leads to parents who stick around to teach their children not to start threads with casually disrespecting minority groups.
I feel offended.

Look I can see you're in pain but you got to understand that Love, with all its nasty side effects, is the foundation of the human mind.

You are afraid to hand over selfcontrol to a force that is greater then yourself, which Love is, but if your life is to have any meaning you should not fear love, because not fearing love is more important then recieving it.

You literally talk of love like a drug some people get fucked up on. On the contrary, people most often get fucked up on drugs by lack of love. Love makes raindeer bang their heads together, lets the male Black Widow Spider sacrifice his life and makes grown adults dance around the house singing the Happy Tree Friends tune.

Get in a love-and-be-loved situation. Its not a drug. Hand in hand with your stance on love are sentiments which almost guarantee unhappiness in the future.


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OfflineViaggio
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Re: Love [Re: Asante]
    #3190770 - 09/28/04 10:36 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Paradis could have said it a little more eloquently, but I agree with most of his points. In fact, I started a thread topic similar to this months ago. Research has shown that love is the result of a brain chemistry and hormones. It's sad that this observation sucks away at the magic we consider love to encompass, but it's also true.

Without love what will there be for you?
There's much more to life than romance. Obsession and addiction can be attributed to almost anything: drugs, gambling, sex, traveling, spirituality...whatever rows your boat.

Love, with all its nasty side effects, is the foundation of the human mind.
I'm not sure I understand this. The brain is the foundation of the human mind. Whatever effects the brain (i.e. rise and fall of various neurotrannies, head injury, lobotomy), effects the mind, the perspective.

...people most often get fucked up on drugs by lack of love.
Hmm...I take drugs for fun or spiritual reasons. I'm confident most folks do the same.

Love makes raindeer bang their heads together, lets the male Black Widow Spider sacrifice his life and makes grown adults dance around the house singing the Happy Tree Friends tune.
Hormones and brain chemistry, my friend. I think being in love is utterly wonderful, but it is not without terrible heart ache from time to time: high highs and low lows. Love is some risky stuff. Personally, the low lows make it a hard sell for me these days, so I tend to avoid it and embrace other aspects of life.


--------------------
"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."


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Re: Love [Re: Anonymous]
    #3190873 - 09/28/04 11:18 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

I don't mean being "in love" though, oh no. I'm pretty sure that is just an emotion that I am not suitably built to produce, for some reason I do not know.I am capable of having love for plenty ladies but I never can fall in love with them. When you realize what love really is, it's hard to.


So you have never been in love and yet you claim to understand exactly what it is. How so?

Quote:

Love is like heroin, people; don't fool yourselves. And in fact, just as dangerous. Think about all the people that have died or done crazy shit over it, history wouldn't even be the same if men didn't get their minds clouded with pussy. Some of the greatest rulers of all time fucked up and let some chick be their downfall.


Think about all the people that "have died or done crazy shit" because of hate, and you will come to realize the numbers are much higher. I'm talking war and endless brutal violence in the name of racism, sexism, and religion. If more people excercised open-minded, accepting and unconditional love, these problems would cease to exist because love fuels understanding and vice versa. Oh and if by 'great leaders' you mean political, i'm pretty sure they are usually greedy, amoral and one-minded, and only seek self-gratification. They wouldn't know love if it kissed them on the lips!

Quote:

I don't like to be IN love though, and actually now that I think of it, that's a good way to describe it, "being IN LOVE", I don't want to be in it, I don't want to enveloped in it. It will blind you to a lot of things.


I think it might be quite the contrary. Love doesn't just teach you things about the person you are in love with, but also about yourself, and the world in general. Qualities such as communication, understanding, respect, and giving are developed and reach new heights and these benefit your own personal and emotional growth, and then the rest of the world you naturally express them on.

Quote:

It's alright to feel it just don't let it control your actions. Don't become a junkie.




Sounds like you are afraid of not being in command over your own life. Your loss of respect for "great leaders" who you think fail when they get involved with women, gives it away. They are symbols of power and yet they fail. You want to make clearminded, logical, unattached decisions now, these will give your future the right direction, and you want all your successes and failures to be your own. Much easier that way. You don't want to surrender to something outside you, who knows where you'll end up? But have you stopped to ponder on how much power you really have over your own destiny anyway? Are you not constantly under the influence of outside circumstances and people around you?



:heart: :heart: :heart:


--------------------
Turn on your lovelight, let it shine on me


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: Love [Re: Viaggio]
    #3190921 - 09/28/04 11:35 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

...people most often get fucked up on drugs by lack of love.

Hmm...I take drugs for fun or spiritual reasons. I'm confident most folks do the same.




Theres a difference between taking them and getting fucked up on them. Some kids are dead sure LSD causes braindamage and that that gives them those funny colors, and they keep tripping.
If something gives you the notion you are doing it in spite of your best interest it moves from use/take into abuse/fucked-up.
Love has horrible side-effects but its a medicine, not a poison.

Quote:

Love, with all its nasty side effects, is the foundation of the human mind.
I'm not sure I understand this. The brain is the foundation of the human mind. Whatever effects the brain (i.e. rise and fall of various neurotrannies, head injury, lobotomy), effects the mind, the perspective.




The brain is the seat of the mind. The human is a social group animal. This comes from inter-individual affinity and voluntary association which is a precursor of love.
Language is a byproduct of human friendship/love, imagine your brain without word-based thought sequences and logic structures.

Quote:

Love makes raindeer bang their heads together, lets the male Black Widow Spider sacrifice his life and makes grown adults dance around the house singing the Happy Tree Friends tune.
Hormones and brain chemistry, my friend.




Hormones and brain chemistry tell of the origin. They say nothing about the nature of love, other that it is so essential we come physically equipped with a whole hormonal delivery system especially made for it. Evolution, which strips anything remotely unuseful has taken Love into increasingly high refinement along with brain power and bone strength. That to me is a higher magic then something intangible.

Love facilitates the deepest bonding between humans.
Would you walk off and stick your tongue into the first person you pass in the street and risk hideous infection? Nope!
If you exchange bodily fluids you are putting your life on the line.
Love ups the ante.

Personally I rather be in love then falling in love with the hormonal whirlwind, but as with most medicines the side-effects fade over time. For some its a thrill-ride they pursue, rather then pursue love. I'd rather be steadily in a love-relationship with no sex then in a sex-relationship with no love.


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InvisibleCorporal Kielbasa
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Re: Love [Re: Anonymous]
    #3190938 - 09/28/04 11:41 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

In my opion Falling in love is a cruch used by people to get them selves threw the day. SOme may be oblivious to the fact that you realy are capable of loveing and careing at all times. In fact I feel you should practice love in your life at all times.

"this brings up another question for s n p, is dying for love a worthy cause?"

Yes it can be, not in a wasted death of suicide but in an attempt to help some one else you fall of I believe thats exceptable.

The question isnt do we love...... Its do we choose to love.


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OfflineViaggio
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Re: Love [Re: Asante]
    #3191010 - 09/28/04 12:10 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Love has horrible side-effects but its a medicine, not a poison.
I still disagree. Romantic love (which is the type I assume this thread is addressing) is not necessary to survive. It does not cure an ailment which threatens life. However, like poison, romantic love can cause injury or illness.

"Inter-individual affinity and voluntary association" are precursors to several things; not specifically love. I do not fall in love with everyone I hang out with and talk to on a daily basis. Language is a byproduct of humans' need to communicate for survival and facilitate improvement of quality of life. Once all priorities for survival are covered, then someone has room for romance.

Love ups the ante.
Do you mean that love influences someone to take more risks? I agree. It is the result of a different perspective, one that originated from chemical cocktail in "the seat of the mind." There isn't as much logic used in the mind of an addict, much like the mind of a lover. Dope fiends.

Evolution, which strips anything remotely unuseful has taken Love into increasingly high refinement along with brain power and bone strength.
I agree. The advancement of humankind's existence has allowed for far less of a struggle to survive, leaving more opportunity to embrace activities which are not necessary, such as romance, and anything else recreational.

Love facilitates the deepest bonding between humans.
I agree, but love isn't the only bond-maker. Take a look at the other side of the spectrum.

I'd rather be steadily in a love-relationship with no sex then in a sex-relationship with no love.
I agree...right now, but ask me again tomorrow. It all depends on my mood, which is governed by "the seat of the mind."


--------------------
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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Love [Re: Anonymous]
    #3191040 - 09/28/04 12:26 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I just want to throw this out there out there because it ties in with an objectivity disscusion def and I had in Trens great changes post.

Could it be that the essense of love is just an energy that exists and that all of the chemical reactions involved that put us in a state of feeling it are just what is required for the human body to intrept and experience that energy as an emotion?

I went to thinking, why arn't we born wih those chemicals always in play? (wouldn't that be sweet?) If we were, there would be no objectivity to the emotion to "know" it was an energy that was there. There would also be no way then to appreciate it.

I suppose you could say that the chemicals produced when in resonance with the energy of love, also produce the feeling of being energized. Being in love is an energy rush.

You have to ask, what is the cause of the chemical release? One can just let go and surrender to the feeling and experience it without having an object to trigger the release of chemicals to feel it. Memory is involved.

I think where people get caught up into problems with it is when it becomes objectified to an object which triggers it. One can become attached to the obejct as the feeding drug and if they loose it, they suffer a sense of great loss, beleive the estatic feeling came from the object.

When people fall in love with another, they are ussually just loving in someone else what they have to love about themselves and fail to realise or appreciate it.

(Sexual attraction isn't love and I know guys don't have big boobs, not what I am talking about here)

There are men and women who have accomplished great things being in love with just ideas or even themselves.

The emotion of love gets to sexualized and objectified and it can be experienced far beyond that.

I also think its important to run a link between mind and emotion. Ever been in love and find yourself sitting at a green light?

Really, so what if chemicals produce our ability to feel it. Take it further and look at what good can come from being in that feeling when it's harnessed with thought?

I wouldn't be so quick to give up on it. Maybe it's a matter of considering all of the different ways it can be experienced and used to empower yourself.

I agree that an emotional body not linked to a rational mental body is something I wouldn't want to be in the path of. Thats how people end up doing stupid things in the feeling of love. Establishing communicatioon between the two and balance is key and easier said then done. Self disapline ties in to this too and you need your mind for it or else love becomes spoiled and expectant.

Sheik,

Can you give an example of your question "is dying for love a worthy cause?" It implies that love can't exist some where unless you die. I can't come up with my own example other then ego death, meaning thoughts about the self that create a block to allowing yourself to feel and experience the love you are.


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InvisibleCorporal Kielbasa
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Re: Love [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3191087 - 09/28/04 12:42 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

That be a nice way to put it. The death of your ego is surely a death I would except to LOVE. Luckily I can love with the bit of ego I have.

Well lets say a loved one needs your help half way around the world. Even though they surely can get by on there own with out your intervention you feel for this person so much that you are drawn to them. In so you die frozen someplace on the side of the road. Was it wurth your life going to see them. No, but as long as it was for a cause you your self felt strongly for then whos to say. You died being a good person.


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Anonymous

Re: Love [Re: Asante]
    #3192117 - 09/28/04 05:36 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Love leads to parents who stick around to teach their children not to start threads with casually disrespecting minority groups.




Okay, please don't run this thread off an a tangent. First of all, I was being specfic, I was talking about the love beteen a man and woman, that's all. I do not believe homosexuality counts as a "minority group", I believe it is a choice, not something you are born with. Nobody is born gay. We could argue about nature/nurture-herdity/enviroment and whether being gay is a choice or something that you are born with, but that's not the topic. If you would like to do so, please start a new thread.

Quote:


I feel offended.




I'm sorry you are so mentally weak that you'd get offended by me saying "please dont turn this into a gay pride thread". I didn't mean to offend you, but that is no concern of mine, to be honest. I simply speak openly and voice my opinion, I refuse to modify or restrict myself or my actions for you or anyone else. What you will see from me is raw truth and not much else.




Quote:

You literally talk of love like a drug


This is literally all it is. You can have everything else that makes up what you consider "being in love" but without the chemical element, it will not be the same at all.





Quote:

Get in a love-and-be-loved situation.


I'm in one now. I love my lady. With all my heart. I am however not in love with her.



Quote:

Hand in hand with your stance on love are sentiments which almost guarantee unhappiness in the future.


How so? What are these sentiments? I can tell you know that this is false. I am quite happy actually. And I do nothing but advacne and grow, hapiness is guaranteed for me already, as long as I don't waste myself and my potential ( which I refuse to do)


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Anonymous

Re: Love [Re: lovelight]
    #3192161 - 09/28/04 05:46 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Think about all the people that "have died or done crazy shit" because of hate, and you will come to realize the numbers are much higher.


This is irrelevant though. This doesnt change the fact that many people have died and done crazy shit over "love".

Quote:

Your loss of respect for "great leaders" who you think fail when they get involved with women, gives it away.


Fuck you. Do not put words in my mouth. Do not assume things. I never said I had a loss of respect for the "greatest rulers" or even any amount of original respect. I said that they were some of the greatest rulers and their downfall was love/women. Some of the greatest rulers were also some of the most twisted people in history, because they were effective has nothing to do with my respect for them.


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Anonymous

Re: Love [Re: Asante]
    #3192186 - 09/28/04 05:52 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Look I can see you're in pain but you got to understand that Love


If you can see that I'm in pain, then it's pain that you projected upon me. I'm not in pain. Why do you people keep saying this? Are you actually so close minded to think that I could only make a thread about love after being pained by it?? I'm actually very dissapointed right now. I thought we'd have some actual discussion, not people telling me what I think, or how I feel.


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OfflineTodcasil
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Re: Love [Re: Anonymous]
    #3192460 - 09/28/04 07:34 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Viaggio and paradis:

your assumptions:
love is the result of brain chemistry.

reality:
brain chemistry and emotion, to my knowledge, has not been proven to follow one or the other, it is simeltanious.

so all of your thoughts are a flawed logic. the "magic" of love is still there, even if your chemical before emotion stance is true. can you answer the question of why those chemicals exist? where they designed for a reason?

just some opinions.

peace

PS. it doesnt sound like your in pain... just disenchanted by something you saw, and decided to believe.

PSS. you said you are in love with love, so you may be falling into your own trap about addiction. you too may be a junkiw and not know it.

peace, again.


--------------------
Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect
GODDESSES
Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud
GODS.


~Casil



:cactus:


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OfflineTodcasil
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Re: Love [Re: Anonymous]
    #3192527 - 09/28/04 07:49 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

after rereading some of your posts paradis...

i have become clear in reaction.

i dont think you sound disenchanted at all...

perhaps you may have a relationship that is quite healthy on your end....

mutual respect, non-impulsive behaviour, dependancy on oneself, instead of the other, though a realization that the other does provide a means to express your love (and conversly for her to make you the canvas and express her love.

bravo

peace


--------------------
Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect
GODDESSES
Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud
GODS.


~Casil



:cactus:


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InvisibleNariusFractal
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Re: Love [Re: Todcasil]
    #3192595 - 09/28/04 08:01 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Because there is a physical manifestation or expression of a feeling, does that make the feeling false? Could you not say you just feel the feeling makes the chemistry false/illusory/empty? How about they are just two sides of the same coin? What makes you so sure you know that physical and spiritual aren't the same thing?


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You are the microcosm of the macrocosm.


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Anonymous

Re: Love [Re: Todcasil]
    #3192639 - 09/28/04 08:08 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

reality: 


"reality" is subjective and in the eye of the beholder. There is no standard for "reality" other than "reality" itself. It's just a word. Just a concpet. it's not "real". (paradoxical explanation, I know)


Quote:

mutual respect, non-impulsive behaviour, dependancy on oneself, instead of the other, though a realization that the other does provide a means to express your love (and conversly for her to make you the canvas and express her love.



  Yeah, that's actually pretty close. Good work. Thank you for thinking with a clear mind :thumbup:


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: Love [Re: Anonymous]
    #3192667 - 09/28/04 08:11 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Okay, please don't run this thread off an a tangent. First of all, I was being specfic, I was talking about the love beteen a man and woman, that's all. I do not believe homosexuality counts as a "minority group", I believe it is a choice, not something you are born with. Nobody is born gay. We could argue about nature/nurture-herdity/enviroment and whether being gay is a choice or something that you are born with, but that's not the topic. If you would like to do so, please start a new thread.





The title of the thread is that it is about love. Right in the beginning of it you basically exclude homosexuality from being genuine love and then its "topic closed".
I do not want to sidetrack the discussion into another topic but you seem to casually dismiss the sacred nature of my love. Thats a bit like starting a thread about people and then starting off by casually saying you only consider whites to be people.
I want to discuss love itself. If you had not started off like that the word "gay" had not even crossed my lips because Love = Love.

Quote:

I'm sorry you are so mentally weak



You have absolutely not the slightest idea how wrong you are.

Quote:

**You literally talk of love like a drug**
This is literally all it is. You can have everything else that makes up what you consider "being in love" but without the chemical element, it will not be the same at all.




You equate love with the chemical reaction. If love holds no psychological content for you and is just a jolt of chemical stress to you then you are missing out on a lot of things.

You are cheapening the concept of being in love. You are afraid of the pains and loss of self-control it might bring. To me this means there is a knot of resistance within you that in my view needs to be untied within you to gain a higher happiness.

You drove your point home why you were right and I was wrong. The only questionmarks you put were in relation to how it could hamper your happiness.
I feel that your happiness can be far greater then it is when you make peace with the world, and mushy as it sounds that includes the notion that love is a unifying force and not a disrupting one, and that it is a good thing to let go of inner resistance and let down your guard.

I have marched straight through Hell on Earth for many years on end and I can guarantee you that higher happiness can only be achieved by ceasing to resist the forces of Nature, including Love. :heart:
Being quite happy is not enough: we're here to radiate in joy like a lighthouse of bliss warming the hearts of all who cross our path. And since we're not quite there yet it is a nice goal to strive for.


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General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

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