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OfflineBlueOrb
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Registered: 09/14/04
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Islamic Fundamentalists
    #3137738 - 09/15/04 07:00 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Just wanted to know if there are any Islamic fundamentalists out there who have had a complete change in philosophy following an entheogenic experience?


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Islamic Fundamentalists [Re: BlueOrb]
    #3138997 - 09/15/04 04:05 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

A true Islamic person would never have used entheogens. This is a pretty good description:

"There is no compromise whatsoever regarding illicit drugs and alcoholic beverages; they are called

"abominations and the work of Satan" (5:90). In 2:219 and 5:90, we see that "intoxicants, gambling,

the idols'altars, and games of chance" are strictly prohibited. The word used for intoxicants is

"Khamr" from the the root word "Khamara" which means "to cover." Thus ANYTHING that covers or

hinders the mind is prohibited."

anything else would be heresy to them.


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OfflineLightningfractal
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Re: Islamic Fundamentalists [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3139019 - 09/15/04 04:10 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

But maybe there are Islamic fundamentalists who are naughty ones and use psychedelics and then have a philosophy change.

I think the question is valid as worded. Just about every fucking religion prohibits psychedelics, but these religions are comprised of human beings, not machines. Islamic fundamentalists will gamble, Mormons will drink etc. etc.


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OfflineBlueOrb
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Re: Islamic Fundamentalists [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #3139157 - 09/15/04 04:38 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

What if an individual was to slip an islamic fundamentalist acid without them knowing? Then what might happen?


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Islamic Fundamentalists [Re: BlueOrb]
    #3139372 - 09/15/04 05:41 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

^^^^ i think your wrong in saying just about every religion prohibits psychadelics. I think damn near none of them do, specifically . People tend to meld religion and society in their minds though, so they think without reason that if society makes something illegal, god doesnt like it, and vice versa.

Certainly the case with pot and christianity.


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Everything I post is fiction.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Islamic Fundamentalists [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3139421 - 09/15/04 05:58 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

There is a history of Christians using mind altering drugs. For example, Catholics can drink alcohol. In the Islamic faith there is a long history of abstinance from all mind altering substances I am fairly sure. I had a college professor from Iraq once and this matter was discussed. His answer, as a lifelong Muslim, was that abstinance was not just encouraged, but strictly enforced in most Islamic countries. In several Islamic countries drug use is punishable by death.


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Invisiblejux
I'm better thanan STD!

Registered: 04/06/04
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Re: Islamic Fundamentalists [Re: Lightningfractal]
    #3139430 - 09/15/04 06:00 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Lightningfractal said:
But maybe there are Islamic fundamentalists who are naughty ones and use psychedelics and then have a philosophy change.




then they really aren't an extremist. An extrimist doesn't go against the words of god. Unless they can find a contradicting statement that oks it.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Islamic Fundamentalists [Re: jux]
    #3139520 - 09/15/04 06:30 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Well said.


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OfflineSaladin
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Re: Islamic Fundamentalists [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3139560 - 09/15/04 06:38 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

"A true Islamic person would never have used entheogens." - wrong

"An extrimist doesn?t go against the words of god." - also wrong



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OfflineZahid
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Re: Islamic Fundamentalists [Re: BlueOrb]
    #3140816 - 09/15/04 10:04 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Me.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Islamic Fundamentalists [Re: Saladin]
    #3140916 - 09/15/04 10:22 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

If that is so the person in question is not faithful to their religious beliefs...that is just one reason why organized religions don't suit me. If I subscribed to one I would feel bound to honor it.


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Offlinedeff
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Re: Islamic Fundamentalists [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3140929 - 09/15/04 10:24 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

There is no honor in conformity.

(my view :smile:)


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Islamic Fundamentalists [Re: deff]
    #3140991 - 09/15/04 10:36 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

If you agree to conform and swear by it you are held to it by honor...as for me I never will agree to conform. To agree and then cheat is low and faithless.


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OfflineZahid
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Re: Islamic Fundamentalists [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3141050 - 09/15/04 10:47 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I disagree. There are many Christians here in S&P who have gained a deeper understanding of their faith with psychedelics.


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InvisibleJellric
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Re: Islamic Fundamentalists [Re: Zahid]
    #3141124 - 09/15/04 11:04 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I didn't know Judd Hirsh from Taxi was Muslim!



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OfflineZahid
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Re: Islamic Fundamentalists [Re: Jellric]
    #3141151 - 09/15/04 11:12 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

God bless him.  :heart:


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Islamic Fundamentalists [Re: Zahid]
    #3141176 - 09/15/04 11:18 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Christianity has no specific rules concerning mind altering substances, so while using entheogens is unorthadox it is not strictly forbidden.


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OfflineZahid
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Re: Islamic Fundamentalists [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3142134 - 09/16/04 02:58 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

If one wanted to be that literal, one can argue that only alcohol and opiate based intoxicants were forbidden in Islam, not a strange fungus that generates Allah's spirit within (En-theo-gen).

Psychedelics and Islam is a non-issue for me because it was my experiences on Mushrooms that brought me to Islam in the first place.

There are Sufis in the United States under Pir Zia (May Allah rest his father and grandfather) in Dhikr getaways who have been known to dose mushrooms or other types of psychedelics before draining their body fluids via crying to the sweet sweet names of Allah.


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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: Islamic Fundamentalists [Re: BlueOrb]
    #3142746 - 09/16/04 10:09 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

and within some sufi orders, the use of cannabis-based intoxicants was permitted (& according to legend, the followers of the old man of the mountain (hassan ibn sabbah), eventually called "assassins" (fron hashishim)) were intitiated by being given an OD of hashish pastry)...

of course, sufis are not generally viewed as "fundamentalist" or "orthodox" muslims

~

now, i wonder, of the billion or two muslims (& the billion or two christians) in the world, how many could actually be identified as "fundamentalist" ?

~

asalaam aleikuum
shalom aleichem
peace be with you


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old enough to know better
not old enough to care


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Islamic Fundamentalists [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #3142884 - 09/16/04 11:17 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I have heard(though I can't confirm) that in many Muslim countries, alcohol has the status that heroin has here(totally taboo, and very illegal), whereas weed and hash are seen more like how tobacco is seen here(nasty habit, but still tolerated).


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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