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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Last week's terrorism death toll [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3099853 -

No, Spain is not under occupation because there are no Muslims there, and the Spanish government is not even oppressive.


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Re: Last week's terrorism death toll [Re: Zahid]
    #3099891 -

Zahid said:
No, Spain is not under occupation because there are no Muslims there, and the Spanish government is not even oppressive.


Not a single one?


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Last week's terrorism death toll [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #3100256 -

There are some Muslims in just about every country on the planet.


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Re: Last week's terrorism death toll [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3100436 -

If you look at who is doing the terrorism, you will find that 99% of them are Muslims.

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Re: Last week's terrorism death toll [Re: Great_Satan]
    #3100446 -

Great_Satan said:
If you look at who is doing the terrorism, you will find that 99% of them are Muslims.


Depends on how you define terrorism.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: Last week's terrorism death toll [Re: silversoul7]
    #3100473 -

Exactly. While Al Zarqawi's foreign fighters can be considered terrorists, the Iraqi insurgents targetting only U.S. troops can not, et cet era.


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Re: Last week's terrorism death toll [Re: Zahid]
    #3100657 -

What was the last act of terrorism reported in the mainstream press that was not carried out by Muslims? By terrorism, I mean truck bombs, splodeydopes (suicide bombers), hostage-taking, beheadings, hijackings.

Take your time.

pinky


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Re: Last week's terrorism death toll [Re: Phred]
    #3100704 -

:rolleyes:


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Re: Last week's terrorism death toll [Re: Zahid]
    #3100871 -

No rush. I know only too well it's a difficult assignment.

*sound of crickets chirping*

pinky


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Re: Last week's terrorism death toll [Re: Phred]
    #3100884 -

Auto-Summary
At least 13 Palestinians were killed and 25 wounded in five explosions in Gaza City's Shajaiyeh section, believed to be caused by either an Israeli air strike or a tank shell attack. The explosions occurred near the Gaza-Israel border, with Israeli helicopters hovering overhead. Palestinians are searching for victims and bringing casualties to Shifa Hospital. The Israeli military has not commented. Meanwhile, Israel is planning to alter the route of the West Bank separation barrier, aiming to run along the Green Line and encircle some Jewish settlements on the "Palestinian" side. Palestinians object to the barrier, calling it an "apartheid wall." Egypt has demanded a comprehensive cease-fire before sending experts to Gaza, threatening to withhold assistance if Israel does not accept.

:rolleyes: Since you insist on it being an assignment...

Explosions Kill at Least 13 in Gaza City

10 minutes ago Add World - AP to My Yahoo!


By IBRAHIM BARZAK, Associated Press Writer

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip - Five explosions rocked a field in Gaza City used for training by anti-Israeli militants early Tuesday, killing at least 13 Palestinians and wounding 25 others, hospital officials and residents said.


AP Photo


AP Photo
Slideshow: Mideast Conflict

Israel Says It Still Wants to Remove Arafat
(AP Video)



Witnesses could not say for sure what caused the blasts, but many said it was either an Israeli air strike or a tank shell attack. The scene of the explosions is near the border with Israel, and Israeli attack helicopters hovered overhead.


The Israeli military refused to comment.


Palestinians were seen searching the blacked-out area with candles and flashlights, looking for victims.


Ambulances and cars brought casualties to Shifa Hospital in Gaza City. Hospital officials said at least 13 people were killed and 25 wounded.


The blasts went off in the Shajaiyeh section of Gaza City, a known stronghold of the violence Islamic Hamas.


On Monday, Israel's defense minister Shaul Mofaz said he is moving another planned section of the West Bank separation barrier closer to Israel. Israel says it needs the barrier to keep out suicide bombers.


The barrier is part of Prime Minister Ariel Sharon (news - web sites)'s contentious plan of "unilateral disengagement" from the Palestinians, including a withdrawal from the Gaza Strip (news - web sites) and the evacuation of four small West Bank settlements in 2005. Sharon has said he wants to keep several large West Bank settlements as part of any future peace deal.


One-third of the 425-mile barrier has already been built in the northern West Bank, but army planners have redrawn parts of the remaining route further to the south to comply with the court order. Palestinians have complained that the wall's path in the north has cut off Palestinians from their land and other services.


Israel began construction of the southern segment of the barrier after Palestinian suicide bombers infiltrated across the unprotected line there and blew up two buses in the desert city of Beersheba last week, killing 16.


The original plan in the south was to cut into the West Bank in several places to include some Jewish settlements on the "Israeli" side, but Mofaz said Monday this was being changed.


"In light of the Supreme Court (rulings), we decided to plan another route that in principle ran along the Green Line," Mofaz told Army Radio, referring to Israel's old frontier, before it captured the West Bank in the 1967 Mideast war.


Jewish settlements that find themselves on the "Palestinian" side will be encircled by separate fences, Mofaz said.


Sharon reportedly wanted to include some of these settlements on the Israeli side. A Sharon adviser, Raanan Gissin, said no final decision has been made, but that he did not expect major changes to the route proposed by Mofaz.


The separation barrier has disrupted the lives of thousands of Palestinians, cutting them off from schools, jobs and land. Earlier this year, the Israeli Supreme Court ordered changes in the planned route to ease hardships.


Palestinians object to the barrier in principle, calling it an "apartheid wall" meant to dictate borders, effectively annexing parts of the West Bank to Israel.


The world court has issued an advisory ruling calling the barrier illegal, saying it should be torn down. Israel dismissed the ruling as one-sided and politically motivated, but Israel's attorney general has said the ruling can't be ignored, and the Supreme Court ordered the government to state how it is dealing with it.





Israel broke ground Sunday on a 25-mile stretch that officials said would run along the Green Line.

Mofaz on Monday referred to a separate 35-mile stretch, security officials said. The original route would have effectively annexed about 20 square miles of West Bank land.

Also Monday, visiting Egyptian officials told Palestinian leaders that they would not send experts to Gaza to help train Palestinian forces to take control there unless Israel accepts a cease-fire, a Palestinian official said.

Egyptian Foreign Minister Ahmed Aboul Gheit and intelligence chief Omar Suleiman met Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat (news - web sites) to discuss cease-fire efforts and the planned Israeli pullout from Gaza.

Palestinian Foreign Minister Nabil Shaath told The Associated Press that the Egyptians called for Palestinian unity. Egypt has been trying unsuccessfully for more than a year to forge a common Palestinian declaration of a truce in the conflict with Israel.

Shaath said Egypt is calling a meeting at the end of the month with all the Palestinian factions to press the truce idea.

"Until Israel accepts a comprehensive cease fire, they will not send their experts to Gaza," Shaath said.

Israel has not been approached about a new cease-fire. Last summer Palestinians declared a unilateral truce, but it collapsed after a few weeks amid Palestinian attacks and Israeli retaliation.

http://news.yahoo.com


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Re: Last week's terrorism death toll [Re: Zahid]
    #3100902 -

Read my post again. Then give me an example of a truck bomb, beheading, hostage-taking, hijacking, or human bomb that hasn't been carried out by Muslims.

Take your time.

pinky


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Re: Last week's terrorism death toll [Re: Phred]
    #3100939 -

Sadly, and unfortunately, terrorism is not bound by how you define terrorism.


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Re: Last week's terrorism death toll [Re: Phred]
    #3100958 -

Nice job of selective quoting, Zahid. Let me be a bit more evenhanded than you were. From the same article you linked --

The Israeli military said the air force targeted the field, near the Israeli border, because it was being used by Hamas for bomb assembly and the training of anti-Israeli fighters. The Hamas military wing, in a statement, acknowledged its use as a training site.

Hmmm. Attacking an acknowledged training camp for terrorists is an act of terror? If you say so.

The Israeli statement said training at the site "was led by senior Hamas terrorists who were involved in the carrying out of deadly terror attacks and attempted attacks." The military said a suicide bomb prepared at the site was discovered last Tuesday in the underwear of a Palestinian at the Erez checkpoint between Gaza and Israel.

The statement also listed events that it said took place at the field in recent days, including assembly of a large bomb and a suicide bomber's vest, practice in hijacking vehicles and training in preparing and firing mortars and rockets.

Yep. There is no difference between the Israelis attacking this site and a splodeydope strapping Semtex to himself and walking into a pizza parlor, yelling "Allah is great!" and pushing the plunger on the detonator. No difference at all.

Israel has not been approached about a new cease-fire. Last summer Palestinians declared a unilateral truce, but it collapsed after a few weeks amid Palestinian attacks and Israeli retaliation.

If the Palestineans had kept their word about the ceasefire, there would have been no attack on that camp, even though the Israelis knew full well what it was being used for. Too bad, so sad.

pinky


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Re: Last week's terrorism death toll [Re: Phred]
    #3100994 -

I don't consider innocent people killed by Israel as 'collateral damage', I consider it terrorism.


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Re: Last week's terrorism death toll [Re: Zahid]
    #3101149 -

Well, see, Zahid -- that's the difference between Muslims and the rest of the world. The rest of the world sees a difference.

To try to pretend that blowing up schoolbuses full of schoolchildren or blowing up pizza parlors or bars in Bali is "collateral damage" is denial, pure and simple.

I as an atheist have long said that religion rots the brain. But there's religion, and then there is religion. Islam is a far, far larger problem to peaceful individuals than Buddhism, Taoism, Jainism, Zoroastrianism, or even Christianity. All of them are non-rational, but Islam is both non-rational and violent. It was born of violence, matured in violence, and will end in violence. The Mormons and the Jehovah's Witnesses are loony, but they are harmless.

Would that I could say the same of the Muslims graduating from the Madrassahs.

Just to get back on topic -- have you come up with any examples of beheadings, splodeydopes, hijackings, truck bombs etc. which haven't been perpetrated by Muslims?

Didn't think so.

pinky


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Re: Last week's terrorism death toll [Re: Phred]
    #3101193 -

pinksharkmark said:
What was the last act of terrorism reported in the mainstream press that was not carried out by Muslims? By terrorism, I mean truck bombs, splodeydopes (suicide bombers), hostage-taking, beheadings, hijackings.

Take your time.

pinky


How 'bout the unabomber...or Timothy Mcveigh? To my knowledge neither one was Islamic.


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"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"

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Re: Last week's terrorism death toll [Re: Phred]
    #3101231 -

I am sorry you feel that way about Islam.

As Muslims, we have the right to self rule and to defend ourselves against the oppression of enemies of Muslims. Until the occupations in Palestine, Chechnya, Kashmir, Iraq and Afghanistan comes to an end, pious Muslims who make their daily prayers are going to be dying to get on the front lines to give their souls and blood for Allah in a fight against those who oppress and murder innocent Muslims. Muslims will defend themselves against the Zionists, the Americans in Iraq, the Russians in Chechyna, and the Indians in Kashmir. That is just how Muslims feel.

And please don't say "the rest of the world" - the rest of the world is not against Islam, even if they were, it wouldn't matter as Muslims will still resist aggressors until we are able to live by ourselves in peace.

Yes, many Muslims who claim to fight in Allah's way have transgressed limits in how they perform armed struggle against oppression. When you completely understand the rhetoric to justify such terrorist attacks against civilians, you also understand that it is done out of desperation, not the teachings of Islam. What do I mean by desperation? Muslims have no army, we have no tanks, we have no fighter planes, we have no chain of command. We are just brothers and sisters with small arms, and Muslims who go out and self bomb restraunts, buses, or schools are doing it out of desperation since they have no other means of defending themselves. They are impatient as well, as the patient Mujahid will wait for an opportunity to strike the enemy (their soldiers) and not resort to something fairly easy and obviously revengeful such as terrorist acts against civilians.


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Re: Last week's terrorism death toll [Re: Rono]
    #3101232 -

You came up with the same two that I was thinking of. Isn't it interesting that almost anyone can instantly name the only two terrorist actions in recent years that didn't involve religion -- specifically the Muslim religion.

There is also the ETA (Basque separatist movement) bombings, but their trademark has almost always been to notify the authorities ahead of time so that innocents can be removed from the area. Sadly, this is obviously not the case with the Islamic extremist actions.

Another would be the many bombings perpetrated by the IRA, but they always claimed it had nothing to do with their religion and everything to do with England's occupation of Ireland. Whether or not this was the case is debatable, of course.

pinky


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Re: Last week's terrorism death toll [Re: Phred]
    #3101250 -

I read in the Sun media earlier this year about Christian attacks on Muslims in Nigeria with fire bombs, grenades, etc.


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Re: Last week's terrorism death toll [Re: Zahid]
    #3101272 -

Zahid, it's interesting how everyone else looks at "oppression" as a national issue, while Muslims look at it as a pan-global issue. The Vietnamese, for example, didn't care about Buddhists in Tibet getting the shaft, yet American Muslims or Muslims in the Philippines get all bent out of shape about "Palestineans", despite the fact that there has never been any such country.

Religion (specifically Islam) is a far, far greater threat to peace than any other single force I can think of.

pinky


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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