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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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OfflineProdijal_Son
slowmaster

Registered: 07/20/02
Posts: 1,573
Loc: derby city
Last seen: 11 years, 11 months
"Terrorism" ...
    #1460674 - 04/15/03 04:26 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

... is in the eye of the beholder ...


--------------------
The times are good. The living is easy. The vibes are zingy.


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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: [Re: Prodijal_Son]
    #1460693 - 04/15/03 04:31 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Targeting noncombatants for attack is an act of terrorism and cowardice. That is terrorism.


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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: "Terrorism" ... [Re: Prodijal_Son]
    #1460695 - 04/15/03 04:32 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Ah relativism, an infantile philosophy which relieves us of the pesky self limiting concept of morals, a nifty way to rationalize any atrocity.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: [Re: z@z.com]
    #1460766 - 04/15/03 04:55 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Targeting noncombatants for attack is an act of terrorism and cowardice. That is terrorism.

According to this definition, the bombing of the USS Cole was NOT terrorism, and the destruction of Hiroshima was the greatest act of terrorism in the history of mankind?

hhhmmmm.... maybe, just maybe it really IS in the eye of the beholder...



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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: [Re: infidelGOD]
    #1460781 - 04/15/03 05:02 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I didn't think enough before I posted that. Anyone else care to take a jab at defining terrorism?


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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineRonoS
DSYSB since '01
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/26/01
Posts: 16,259
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Last seen: 30 days, 12 hours
Re: [Re: z@z.com]
    #1460785 - 04/15/03 05:03 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

No..I think you did an excellent job of defining terrorism the first time. And your examples were perfect, even if you don't agree with them.


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"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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OfflineAzmodeus
Seeker

Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3,392
Loc: Lotus Land!! B.C.
Last seen: 16 years, 2 months
Re: [Re: Rono]
    #1460839 - 04/15/03 05:20 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

"terrorism" is a relative term that can have many meanings in any given situation which is why i think bush co. is so fond of it! :smirk:


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"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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OfflineRonoS
DSYSB since '01
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/26/01
Posts: 16,259
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Last seen: 30 days, 12 hours
Re: [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1460855 - 04/15/03 05:24 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

The dictionary defines it as the following...
political violence:  violence or the threat of violence, especially bombing, kidnapping, and assassination, carried out for political purposes.

I won't even bother pointing out the blatantly obvious... :wink:


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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OfflineAzmodeus
Seeker

Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3,392
Loc: Lotus Land!! B.C.
Last seen: 16 years, 2 months
Re: [Re: Rono]
    #1460869 - 04/15/03 05:28 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

:smirk:


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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Anonymous

Re: "Terrorism" ... [Re: Prodijal_Son]
    #1460915 - 04/15/03 05:44 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

definition of terrorism as according to mushmaster:

the use or threat of violence to instill fear in the civilian populace of a nation in order to further a set of political goals.


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: "Terrorism" ... [Re: ]
    #1460928 - 04/15/03 05:48 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Here's a partial list of terrorist organizations in the U.S., IRS, BATF, FBI, PETA.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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Anonymous

Re: "Terrorism" ... [Re: Evolving]
    #1460960 - 04/15/03 05:57 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

the violence those groups commit, or threaten to commit, is not usually intended to further any kind of political agenda.

the CIA would be a better example.


Edited by mushmaster (04/15/03 05:57 PM)


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: "Terrorism" ... [Re: ]
    #1461103 - 04/15/03 06:43 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I beg to differ, they are part of our political system. The IRS was used by the Klinton administration to harrass political opponents, and still terrorizes honest citizens everyday. 900 FBI files did not get in Hillary's hands by her just doing her work. Do the locations Ruby Ridge and Waco mean anything to you? I've read of PETA terrorizing people and businesses in the name of animal rights.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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OfflineAzmodeus
Seeker

Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3,392
Loc: Lotus Land!! B.C.
Last seen: 16 years, 2 months
Re: "Terrorism" ... [Re: Evolving]
    #1461112 - 04/15/03 06:46 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

What about the DEA? :shocked: :tongue:


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: "Terrorism" ... [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1461139 - 04/15/03 06:52 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Jeezuz Krist, your right. Sorry I forgot. Another one of those poisoned alphabet soup organizations. Thanks.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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Anonymous

Re: [Re: infidelGOD]
    #1461309 - 04/15/03 07:45 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

the bombing of the USS Cole was NOT terrorism

i agree.

the destruction of Hiroshima was the greatest act of terrorism in the history of mankind

no, a war crime.


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OfflineyelimS
bohem

Registered: 02/03/03
Posts: 717
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
Re: Terrorism [Re: infidelGOD]
    #1461352 - 04/15/03 08:00 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

and the destruction of Hiroshima was the greatest act of terrorism in the history of mankind?
and how is it not?
wouldn't a definition of terrorism be (unexpected) attacks to invoke fear?


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Anonymous

Re: Terrorism [Re: yelimS]
    #1461378 - 04/15/03 08:11 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

because it was an overt act by a soveriegn state during a time of war. the primary purpose was not to cause fear in the civilian populace of japan to further a political agenda. it was a military attack against the population. i don't consider it an act of terrorism, but a war crime.

i amend my definition to include that terrorism must be a covert act. an overt military attack against the population is not terrorism, but a war crime.


Edited by mushmaster (04/15/03 08:14 PM)


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OfflineyelimS
bohem

Registered: 02/03/03
Posts: 717
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
Re: Terrorism [Re: ]
    #1461401 - 04/15/03 08:18 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

it caused enough fear for japan to surrender, didn't it?
(i'm not starting an argument here, you seem to know more than me on this, i'm just curious)


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Anonymous

Re: Terrorism [Re: yelimS]
    #1461437 - 04/15/03 08:30 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

yep. but then... in a war, fear amongst the civilian populace is caused by any attack you undertake. anything you do could be an act of terrorism.

when the primary goal of an attack is to cause fear, then it is a terrorist act.

hiroshima and nagasaki were cities full of civilians yes. they were also large manufacturing centers. the cities, full of factories and people to work them, were military targets. both the workers and factories were part of japan's industrial infrastructure. the sole purpose was not to kill civilians and spread fear. nonetheless, it was an attack on a civilian population, and so was a war crime.

(this is all just stuff i'm coming up with off the top of my head. if it seems faulty to anyone here, call me on it).

i mean, it wasn't terrorism, but definitions matter not. it was hella bad.


Edited by mushmaster (04/15/03 08:37 PM)


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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