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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
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The Power of Positive Thinking
    #3064693 - 08/29/04 12:13 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

prefight

Announcer: Flash, how are you going to do tonight?

Flash (Boxing Champion): I am going to knock the bum out in the fourth round!

Announcer: And you Hector, how do you feel about your chances in the fight?

Hector (Boxing Challenger): Well, I trained hard, but Flash is tough and experienced. We shall have to wait and see.

post fight

Announcer: Well Hector, how do you feel with your decisive victory over the champ?

Hector: He fought well, but seemed to tire in the later rounds. My fitness training really paid off.

Announcer: When did you know you could take him?

Hector: When the judges scored in my favor.

Announcer: Well I hope you sound a little more confident in your next bout.


Carl Sagan: (two weeks before his death) "I know that I am going to beat this cancer."

My Uncle: (with a brain tumor) "Well, this Christmas will probably be my last." (He lived another 10 years.)


I understand goal setting and perserverance, but believe that only actions, discipline and preparation, not verbalizing affirmations and positive thinking, affect the outcome.

Please note that I feel that confidence and positive thinking are not the same. Confidence means that I will act near, or at, the best of my ability regardless of outcome; positive thinking means that I believe things will turn out rosy.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisiblepsyka
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Re: The Power of Positive Thinking [Re: Swami]
    #3064719 - 08/29/04 12:26 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Positive confidence = positive thinking/affirmation. What do people with confidence problems suffer? Negative thought patterns. "You reap what you sow."

The quality of my life has certainly improved, due to a positive shift in thought.


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.



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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
Livin in theTwilight Zone...
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Re: The Power of Positive Thinking [Re: Swami]
    #3064727 - 08/29/04 12:33 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

not verbalizing affirmations and positive thinking, affect the outcome.

Hmm.. Let me ask you this:
Do you think that indulging in neurotically negative thinking and habitually self-deprecating one's self via verbal abuse and all sorts of other emotionally immature verbal affirmations and self-destructive thinking, has ZERO effect on 'the outcome'?




--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: The Power of Positive Thinking [Re: psyka]
    #3064738 - 08/29/04 12:38 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

The quality of my life has certainly improved, due to a positive shift in thought.

I would wager it was the positive action that changed your life.


Who do you believe will win more money in Las Vegas in a fixed odds game?

a. A positive thinker

b. A negative or neutral thinker

c. Makes absolutely no difference.


Who do you believe is more likely to survive in a combat zone?

a. A positive thinker

b. A negative or neutral thinker

c. Chances are the same.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: The Power of Positive Thinking [Re: Swami]
    #3064747 - 08/29/04 12:41 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Some would say simply saying the words of an affirmation is not enough. There has to be a deeper belief of which the affirmation itself is merely a representation, a beleif or gnosis that goes beyond words.

The two examples you have provided dont really prove anything do they? The boxer may have in reality been feeling totally unconfident so his affirmation was not actually connected with any underlying belief. The same could easily apply to Sagan. However, there could be people who have said similar things and actually had a true and powerful belief in their words, perhaps these people may have manifested their beliefs through affirmation...maybe.


--------------------
Always Smi2le


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: The Power of Positive Thinking [Re: Swami]
    #3064760 - 08/29/04 12:45 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Please note that I feel that confidence and positive thinking are not the same.

Confidence is contingent upon positive thinking.

How many people with poor self esteem and poor positive thinking-habits do you know that truly radiate genuine confidence?

You're right, it is the actions that actually CREATE the measurable and observable difference in life.. but that certainly does not mean that positive thinking has no place or effect in this proccess. Positive thinking is where it all starts and is the fundamental root of the flower named Confidence. Capisce?



--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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Invisiblepsyka
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Re: The Power of Positive Thinking [Re: Swami]
    #3064820 - 08/29/04 01:06 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

A simple shift in perception can change ones actions dramatically.

Obviously, personal affirmations have no direct affect on realtime luck scenario's. What can they change? Quite a bit. Look what placebo's can do and tell me positive thoughts are not powerful.

The majority of us do not have direct access to our subconcious mind, as it is the place where expirences/memorys are stored (this is where the misinformed "we only use 10% of our brain" statement came from). However, the subconscious directly affects our thoughts and therefore directly affects our actions. Much erroneous behavior has resulted from negative thought patterns.

I'd be willing to wager that a man of a logical sound mind and a positive train of thought would not be in Vegas gambling on a game with "fixed odds." Unless of course he was rich enough to afford to.

I also see you get frustrated when people avoid answering your questions. So to appease this I'll choose C in both of those scenario's, because DUH! From those limited parameters, which obviously do not emulate reality at all, C would be the most correct answer.


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.



Edited by psyka (08/29/04 01:15 PM)


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: The Power of Positive Thinking [Re: Swami]
    #3064840 - 08/29/04 01:11 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

yoiu've got my support on this one, pal.

self-doubt is underrated, IMO


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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Invisiblepsyka
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Re: The Power of Positive Thinking [Re: DoctorJ]
    #3064861 - 08/29/04 01:17 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Theres a difference between remaining humble and doubting yourself. Whats the use of doubting yourself or are you being sarcastic?


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.



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InvisibleSwami
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Re: The Power of Positive Thinking [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #3065530 - 08/29/04 04:52 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Confidence is contingent upon positive thinking.

I contend that it is not. One time I played a racquetball state champion and was certain that I would lose (I study and train diligently, but am not naturally gifted and was well past "my prime"), but confident that I would play damned hard. I won. No correlation in this singular example.

I could be in a situation where I am near-certain of my demise and take serious action anyway.

Realistic thinking is not the opposite of negative thinking. Much positive thinking is denial of current reality.

Parents of Scott Peterson, "We are positive our son had nothing to do with Lacy's disappearance." They may truly believe that and yet it may have no bearing on reality.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineNorthernsoul
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Re: The Power of Positive Thinking [Re: Swami]
    #3065647 - 08/29/04 05:25 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)




The quality of my life has certainly improved, due to a positive shift in thought.

I would wager it was the positive action that changed your life.


Yes, the action of thinking more positive. Why make it more difficult to think about than it already is? As long as he's happy, thats all that matters. All there is now, is just picking it apart. Whats the use of debating something that already is. And what is, is that this person is happier. Thats all that matters.

Positive thaught is connected to positive action, and vise versa. They both can feed off eachother. Its already well established that feeling, behaviour, thaught, and actions and so on are connected. Go to psychiatrist and they will tell you that it's one of the first things they learn. Cognitive therapy.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: The Power of Positive Thinking [Re: Northernsoul]
    #3065672 - 08/29/04 05:33 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Obese Person A: "I am slim, fit and beautiful! I am slim, fit and beautiful! I am slim, fit and beautiful!"

OPA does not change his diet nor exercise routine.


Obese Person B: "I am a fat, disgusting slob! I am a fat, disgusting slob! I am a fat, disgusting slob! "

OPB cuts back on calories and walks several miles per day.


Who is MORE LIKELY to transform his body? "The universe" does not respond to your words. Action is EVERYTHING.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineNorthernsoul
Your Reality

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Re: The Power of Positive Thinking [Re: Swami]
    #3065706 - 08/29/04 05:42 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Obese Person A: I know I can do it, so many other people have lost weight, and so can I!

OPA: Energeticly gets up and goes for a walk.


Obese Person B: I'll never lose weight, I'll be fat forever, whats the point of walking, I'll just gain it back anyway.

OPB: Stays inside.


Who is more likely to transform his body?


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
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Re: The Power of Positive Thinking [Re: Northernsoul]
    #3065713 - 08/29/04 05:45 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

The ONE that takes action - thought I already covered that. Brain ruminations will not affect weight-loss.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineFrog
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Re: The Power of Positive Thinking [Re: Swami]
    #3065722 - 08/29/04 05:48 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Obese Person A: "I am slim, fit and beautiful! I am slim, fit and beautiful! I am slim, fit and beautiful!"

OPA does not change his diet nor exercise routine.


Obese Person B: "I am a fat, disgusting slob! I am a fat, disgusting slob! I am a fat, disgusting slob! "

OPB cuts back on calories and walks several miles per day.


Who is MORE LIKELY to transform his body? "The universe" does not respond to your words. Action is EVERYTHING.




I read that book referred to me by Skorp called "What to Say When You Talk to Yourself", by Shad Helmstetter, and that's not what he means by the power of positive thinking. You can't "think" yourself to thinness. (Excellent book, btw, and easy to read and implement.)

If you talk to yourself and say "I am a disgusting fat slob," there is less likely of a chance that you will go on a diet and start exercising. If you confirm to yourself, in your mind, that you are a fat slob, you will continue to act as a fat slob would act: You would over-eat and not exercise.

But if you tell yourself that you deserve to be taken care of better than you are taking care of yourself, that you have the ability to be thin and fit, and you tell yourself that you have the self-discipline to be a better person, physically, you will most likely start eating right and working out.

Helmstetter says that the things we say in our brain are recorded in our unconscious mind, which then goes on to act out on what is recorded.

Saying, "I'm going to win the lottery today" is not the same kind of positive thinking that Helmstetter is talking about. I think that might be wishful thinking, and the odds of winning are still just as slim.

But I agree with you, Swami, that we have to put into action any positive thinking, ultimately. I can sit around and say repeatedly, "I'm going to be a successful lawyer", but if I don't work at it, I'll never attain success.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflineNorthernsoul
Your Reality

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Re: The Power of Positive Thinking [Re: Frog]
    #3065743 - 08/29/04 05:56 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah, and I was just saying that the positive thinking can help get into this action of getting what you think done.
I got the impression that action is the very begining of getting things done. But does anyone remember: "Think before you act?"

Thats all I'm trying to make clear.


--------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------

When it comes
I'll know, I know
Just take my clothes and leave
And I'll be gone




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Offlinethe_phoenix
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Re: The Power of Positive Thinking [Re: Swami]
    #3065747 - 08/29/04 05:57 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

A box can be red and a wall can be hard. A situation, however, cannot innately be awkward or boring, nor a turn of events depressing. If you're stuck waiting in line, whereas a negative thinker might become frustrated or board, a positive thinker could instead choose to appreciate his surroundings or contemplate a thought. In this regard, I believe that positive thinking does play a major role in our lives. It is a matter of perception.


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: The Power of Positive Thinking [Re: Swami]
    #3065752 - 08/29/04 06:01 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

but confident that I would play damned hard.

Ahem. Sounds a wee bit positive... Doesn't it? :wink:
You believed that you would play DAMNED hard.. which is a positive thought.. That resulted in the confidence of such projections of your future performance. [That you would play damn hard.]
And you won. Doesn't surprise me..



--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: The Power of Positive Thinking [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #3065801 - 08/29/04 06:16 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

You believed that you would play DAMNED hard.. which is a positive thought.
It is a historical reflection on past performances. If I were to get in a street-fight (never have been), my confidence of victory would be low as these skills (or lack thereof) are totally untested.

Positive thinking: flowery picture of desired end-result (forward-looking or projecting)

Confidence: awareness of discipline, training and skills (backward-looking)


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: The Power of Positive Thinking [Re: Swami]
    #3065811 - 08/29/04 06:19 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Maintaining a positive mental attitude is the single most important thing one can do to improve one's self. Positive thoughts precede positive actions.


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