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Baghwan Shree Rajneesh
    #2820901 -

Otherwise known as Osho. What's the deal on this guy? I have read a good bit of his writings, and it all seems pretty sound to me. But then I read about his fleet of luxury cars, tax evasion, inappropriate sexual conduct, etc. I'm having a hard time reconciling the two.

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Re: Baghwan Shree Rajneesh [Re: zorbman]
    #2821062 -

Why the hard time? Many people say one thing and do another. Many people espouse wisdom and knowledge, but are unable to live it.

Moral: don't be fooled by the power of words alone.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Baghwan Shree Rajneesh [Re: Swami]
    #2821177 -

So then the question is:

Should the words be discounted because the one who spoke them was less than ethical?

Does the messenger courrupt the message?


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What you're searching for is what's searching.

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Re: Baghwan Shree Rajneesh [Re: Swami]
    #2821212 -

I'm not surprised, just confused that so many people quote him as gospel, but then you look at the kind of life he led which seems anything but spiritual.

Did he start out good and become corrupted?

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Re: Baghwan Shree Rajneesh [Re: Source]
    #2821272 -

I have always contended that the two go hand-in-hand though many have vehemently argued to the contrary. Actually the deeds, lifestyle and accomplishments of the "wise man" should speak much louder than his words (borrowing an old cliche). Politicians are great speakers and wordsmiths (or have great speech writers), but so what? Why do people like to be dazzled so?

I would say that empty wisdom is no wisdom at all. Do we want bright & shiny gold plating or would you rather have solid gold that may be somewhat dulled on the surface?

It may be true that the greatest tennis player in the world might make a poor coach and a strong club-level player might make an excellent coach. This may seem contrary to what I have said, but the world champion may have had exceptional native talent and did not travel as far as the top club player who was initially slow & clumsy; so may have travelled much further relativistically. Or he may just be better able to communicate the lesser court wisdom much better.

Bottom line: Don't be seduced by anyone. Look behind the flattering & sparkly words.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Baghwan Shree Rajneesh [Re: Swami]
    #2821349 -

Yes, that's the thing about people who write or speak well. They can cast a spell with their words. Particularly in person. The great leader may be up on the podium giving a speech and captivating everyone with his smooth voice and twinkling eye, but the twinkle may just be him smiling inside thinking, "That hot mamma in the front row will be riding my baloney pony tonite!!"

Also, it is so easy to learn the lingo for a particular movement and just rap on with everyone believing you are thinking on your feet. I remember seeing a guest on Larry King Live one night and was so impressed with the articulation of his thoughts. I thought he was brilliant. That is until I saw him later on CSPAN repeating the same lines word for word. The audience was wildly applauding.

I came to learn he was basically a con man. It came to light when a car plowed into the side of a business owned by him. Out spilled hundreds of books of Nazi propaganda and hate literature. The store was a front for his underground hate library.

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Re: Baghwan Shree Rajneesh [Re: zorbman]
    #2821372 -

Exactly. Don't confuse style with substance.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Baghwan Shree Rajneesh [Re: Swami]
    #2821419 -

Swami, how does one do that in a forum such as this where the character of the person posting is unknown and there is no way of knowing that person's actions?

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Re: Baghwan Shree Rajneesh [Re: zorbman]
    #2821493 -

You cannot tell by one post or words alone. Why do you think I am such a stickler for consistency? When someone claims to be peaceful and loving, why do I test them?

Wayne Dyer (pop psychologist/spiritualist) made the observation that what comes out of a person must be what is ALREADY inside them. If you squeeze an orange, you can only get orange juice from it NO MATTER WHO DOES THE SQUEEZING. Sounds like it makes sense.

But what about when someone gets angry then blames another for their anger? The outside agent may be a catalyst, but you cannot get anger out unless it is already present.

More importantly than that tangent, be your own master. No one is an expert on your life, but you. Others may be able to teach you physical skills such as carpentry or accounting, but no one can teach you wisdom. I have read literally thousands of books trying to get a drop and it always seems as if one can almost touch it or taste it, but not quite. Maybe if the words were phrased a little differently or if one struggled harder to grasp the concepts. It is all a fallacy. THE ONLY POINT OF ANOTHER'S STORY IS TO INSPIRE YOU ON YOUR OWN INTERNAL SEARCH. That's it. They cannot even point the way; just make you believe that the way is possible.

Here is your assignment: (a suggestion not a command) Pick one book that resonates with you. Read it slowly, then re-read it and digest it. Can you truly take something from it and add to your life? Something substantial? If yes, then great. Continue on this path of words. If no, then don't believe that the next book or teacher will have more to offer. Neither am I saying to be cyncial and disregard everything, but if this type of active search is futile, then let it go.


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The proof is in the pudding.

Edited by Swami (06/23/04 04:20 PM)

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Re: Baghwan Shree Rajneesh [Re: Swami]
    #2821672 -

15 "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thorns, or figs from thistles? 17 So, every sound tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears evil fruit. 18 A sound tree cannot bear evil fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus you will know them by their fruits.

Matthew 7:15-20

Be lamps unto yourselves. Be a refuge unto yourselves.

I remember very vividly when I absolutely REALIZED that no one can save me but myself. That I am my own Guru and there is simply no other way for it to be. It was actually quite liberating.


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What you're searching for is what's searching.

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Re: Baghwan Shree Rajneesh [Re: Source]
    #2821701 -

That I am my own Guru and there is simply no other way for it to be.

I would be honored to be your disciple.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Baghwan Shree Rajneesh [Re: Swami]
    #2821730 -

Preachers and gurus often become big headed about their position and start to use it for personal gain in the extreme. By convincing the masses that they need a spiritual "insider" to talk with God for them they maintain this power. Rajneesh was once asked to leave the USA due to tax evasion and related corruption at one point, though several of his early books are standards on the Buddhist religion. I have read Several of Mr. Dyer's books and I really like much of his philosophy. "Your Erroneous Zones" (though I still mave many) impressed me in the extreme.

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Re: Baghwan Shree Rajneesh [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #2821744 -

"Your Erroneous Zones" (though I still mave many) impressed me in the extreme.

Sorry hue, but I cannot help myself.

In this book, Dyer talks a lot about self image and acceptance of the way things are. Sounds good, but go back and check out the cover photograph. If you do not get the blatant irony, I will explain.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Baghwan Shree Rajneesh [Re: Swami]
    #2821757 -

I don't have the book here, and it has been a while since I read it (I was 23) but I basically remember the cover enough to understand an explanation...explain. I remember that the book discussed removing erroneous thoughts and feelings like guilt (one of many) for instance.

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Re: Baghwan Shree Rajneesh [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #2821775 -

Dyer is, and has been, quite bald for a long time. The original (it has been changed) cover photo disguises this fact by cropping his head deliberately right at the forehead so that you cannot tell. (Go to the library and get an old copy).

He was either embarassed by this condition or kow-towed to the publisher. Either way it goes against some of the tenets of his book.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Baghwan Shree Rajneesh [Re: Swami]
    #2821799 -

I remember. The cover and name is a takeoff on the cover and name of a bestselling book "Your Erogenous Zones", a book on sex. It had a good looking guy on the cover with blond hair and mustache similar to Dyer's. The cut off bald spot is a joke.

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Re: Baghwan Shree Rajneesh [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #2821824 -

The Swam has a hard time with jokes and humor...


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Baghwan Shree Rajneesh [Re: Swami]
    #2821846 -

I remember because when a friend gave me Dyer's book I said isn't this a sex book? and he explained.

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Re: Baghwan Shree Rajneesh [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #2821851 -

Word is out that for his next book cover Dyer will be sporting a condom on his bald head.

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Re: Baghwan Shree Rajneesh [Re: zorbman]
    #2821857 -

You got to be kidding...

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