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Invisiblecez
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Gurdjieff
    #19489768 - 01/29/14 03:14 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I've begun to dive into his philosophy and so far am at a loss for words regarding his teachings...Or the very little that I've read with an ability to understand.

His concepts to me seem out of this world.


I can offer next to nothing in conversation regarding the specifics of his teachings but id like to read the opinions/thoughts of those of you who have researched his word.

Edited by cez (01/29/14 03:14 AM)

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Gurdjieff [Re: cez]
    #19489909 - 01/29/14 05:04 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

good luck with it


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Gurdjieff [Re: cez] * 1
    #19490745 - 01/29/14 10:37 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)



--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Gurdjieff [Re: Icelander] * 1
    #19491057 - 01/29/14 11:54 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

aw crumb!


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Gurdjieff [Re: redgreenvines]
    #19491077 - 01/29/14 11:59 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

another crowley type.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Gurdjieff [Re: Icelander]
    #19491129 - 01/29/14 12:09 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Regurdjiefftated. :puke:


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Gurdjieff [Re: cez]
    #19493779 - 01/29/14 09:09 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

cez said:
I've begun to dive into his philosophy and so far am at a loss for words regarding his teachings...Or the very little that I've read with an ability to understand.

His concepts to me seem out of this world.


I can offer next to nothing in conversation regarding the specifics of his teachings but id like to read the opinions/thoughts of those of you who have researched his word.




I've been trying to read Gurdjieff for 40 years. One word: Awakening. For G., we are all stumbling around in various states of unconsciousness. His work with the centers is important to understanding him. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centers_(Fourth_Way) Related to G.'s work is this, which is excellent: http://www.amazon.com/Human-Types-Enneagram-Susan-Zannos/dp/0877288836/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1391055106&sr=8-1&keywords=human+types


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Gurdjieff [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #19496639 - 01/30/14 02:11 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

we are. if we weren't, there wouldn't be humanitarians, war, greed, famine, destruction and chaos.

some would probably argue that this is a good thing.

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Gurdjieff [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #19496883 - 01/30/14 02:49 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

what I like about your particular synthesis of symbols is that it accommodates so much poly cultural lore.
I get bogged down trying to follow the trails, but you have kept the energy up and are now entitled to use all the terms in their original dialects.
You are not  a fake guru
nor building a new religion.
and that
for the effort made
is amazing and honorable.

Gurdjieff who was practically a Crowley contemporary and who may have known Rasputin - not so much

but I agree
we mostly sleepwalk


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Gurdjieff [Re: redgreenvines]
    #19498057 - 01/30/14 06:56 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I love gurdjieff! 
which of his books have you delved into?
my my cez...you keep mentioning all my favorite authors (:

you may be on to something.
prometheus rising should help you under stand him a bit better..

and may i suggest Beezlebubs Tales to Grandson by Gurdjieff if you havent already..as a matter of fact i would suggest reading that epic before any thing else by him and you'll come away with a much better understanding.

to understand gurdjieff one must understand themselves..and that i believe is the main message, or the one i got atleast, "Know thyself". perhaps i should add "Free thyself" as well.


--------------------
zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes
Light up the darkness.

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OfflineXUL
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Re: Gurdjieff [Re: hTx]
    #19498520 - 01/30/14 08:29 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

to understand gurdjieff one must understand themselves..and that i believe is the main message, or the one i got atleast, "Know thyself". perhaps i should add "Free thyself" as well.




Autonomy.


--------------------
TRUMP 2020

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Gurdjieff [Re: redgreenvines]
    #19498866 - 01/30/14 09:33 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
what I like about your particular synthesis of symbols is that it accommodates so much poly cultural lore.
I get bogged down trying to follow the trails, but you have kept the energy up and are now entitled to use all the terms in their original dialects.
You are not  a fake guru
nor building a new religion.
and that
for the effort made
is amazing and honorable.

Gurdjieff who was practically a Crowley contemporary and who may have known Rasputin - not so much

but I agree
we mostly sleepwalk




Well, thanks RGV - I think. :tongue: There may have been an attempted meeting between Crowley and G. that didn't materialize (I seem to remember reading that somewhere).
No, I am not building anything, I try to distill the invariant features, the universals, out of the apparently different phenomena. This is the 'phenomenological reduction.' But in addition, I am an esotericist in religious matters, which is just like the phenomenological reduction in that it seeks out the universals within the particulars, uncolored by the socio-cultural and group psychology of the particular religions. But the higher one climbs on the many-sided mountain of religions, the difference narrow until they converge in a Unitary Truth. I learned this from Frithjof Schuon's book 'The Transcendent Unity of Religions.' This is the Perennialist School of religious experience. (The Constructivist School seems only to see the differences between Nirvana, Fana, Sat Chit Ananda, etc. colored by cultural concepts).



--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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OfflineDeckard_Cain
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Re: Gurdjieff [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #19499054 - 01/30/14 10:18 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

" Gurdjieff was very aware of the properties and
effects of mind-altering substances and used
them both personally and with many of his students.
"
"Gurdjieff possessed an extensive and profound
knowledge of psychoactive substances and
their effects, much of it clearly based on personal
experience. Rafael Lefort, who attempted to
trace the sources of Gurdjieff’s knowledge, claims
that Gurdjieff studied in Eastern esoteric
schools where he was taught “the science of pharmac
y and pharmacology, how to plant and use
plants of importance, how to extract their essences
and how to use these essences"

This is the bit 'new-agers' are very adamant to deny. His dances, practices and meditations combined with specific drugs lead to breakthroughs, quicker changes and interesting 'abilities' like strong telepathy in his students.
The fourth way in a nutshell is the use of drugs alongside the 'traditional' style practices one may come across at a monastery or temple.

Though some of the drugs he used were still neurotoxins which I swore off personally. Also by the time I heard of Gurdjieff I had already come up with rituals and dances of my own which I sometimes performed for hours to great results. In that way I did not discover him at a useful time in my life. That happens a lot with me... though I am currently reading things new to me from other sources :P

Studying him may help you since you have a hard time grasping his concepts. When I meet something I cannot understand or wish to understand deeper I meditate on it. That has worked wonders over and over again for me. Some times years down the line answers will come... some times it's only 15 minutes away.

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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Gurdjieff [Re: Deckard_Cain]
    #19499098 - 01/30/14 10:30 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

his music was pretty interesting.

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Gurdjieff [Re: Deckard_Cain]
    #19499135 - 01/30/14 10:41 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Deckard_Cain said:
" Gurdjieff was very aware of the properties and
effects of mind-altering substances and used
them both personally and with many of his students.
"
"Gurdjieff possessed an extensive and profound
knowledge of psychoactive substances and
their effects, much of it clearly based on personal
experience. Rafael Lefort, who attempted to
trace the sources of Gurdjieff’s knowledge, claims
that Gurdjieff studied in Eastern esoteric
schools where he was taught “the science of pharmac
y and pharmacology, how to plant and use
plants of importance, how to extract their essences
and how to use these essences"

This is the bit 'new-agers' are very adamant to deny. His dances, practices and meditations combined with specific drugs lead to breakthroughs, quicker changes and interesting 'abilities' like strong telepathy in his students.
The fourth way in a nutshell is the use of drugs alongside the 'traditional' style practices one may come across at a monastery or temple.

Though some of the drugs he used were still neurotoxins which I swore off personally. Also by the time I heard of Gurdjieff I had already come up with rituals and dances of my own which I sometimes performed for hours to great results. In that way I did not discover him at a useful time in my life. That happens a lot with me... though I am currently reading things new to me from other sources :P

Studying him may help you since you have a hard time grasping his concepts. When I meet something I cannot understand or wish to understand deeper I meditate on it. That has worked wonders over and over again for me. Some times years down the line answers will come... some times it's only 15 minutes away.




http://www.thefane.org/client.html#item16,2


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Gurdjieff [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #19499381 - 01/31/14 12:03 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

holy moly, i must be a genius then.

:tripping2:

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Gurdjieff [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19500447 - 01/31/14 09:13 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
holy moly, i must be a genius then.

:tripping2:




Well, we all have 'a' genius. "In ancient Rome, the genius (plural in Latin genii) was the guiding spirit or tutelary deity of a person, family (gens), or place (genius loci). The noun is related to the Latin verb gigno, genui, genitus, "to bring into being, create, produce." Because the achievements of exceptional individuals seemed to indicate the presence of a particularly powerful genius, by the time of Augustus the word began to acquire its secondary meaning of "inspiration, talent." In Arabic, they had the jinn or jinii, which when Latinized became genii or today's genie. And no, they neither live in a lamp, a bottle, or look like a young Barbara Eden.
Clearly we're not geniuses for taking entheogens, yet I am convinced that they enhanced my own curiosity, desire for knowledge and wisdom, and my compassion. But I still had to do the homework.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Gurdjieff [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #19513452 - 02/02/14 10:19 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

well i haven't tripped in over a year and don't plan on anytime soon. my genius told me that i should. :thumbup:

(but cool, Marko, i didn't know that... i love how words have so much meaning even past the notions of how we use them on a daily basis. personally, i never let the definition of a word cement its self in my mind... because i feel if i chose a particular word, i chose it for a reason)

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Offlinesadspacemonkey
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Re: Gurdjieff [Re: cez]
    #19517335 - 02/03/14 06:44 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I never read much of Gurdjieff but I remember one thing he spoke of - always being aware of death, having a constant awareness of death - and by keeping that awareness in mind, it will bring light to the aspect of life, and bring greater awareness in general. It's been a concept that's been stored in the back of my mind for years and helped immensely :smile:


--------------------

"I can't be told by anyone how to live. If I said to the minister 'Move from your home' he would think I was mad." Bushman : Botswana

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Gurdjieff [Re: sadspacemonkey]
    #19518680 - 02/03/14 11:30 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

sadspacemonkey said:
I never read much of Gurdjieff but I remember one thing he spoke of - always being aware of death, having a constant awareness of death - and by keeping that awareness in mind, it will bring light to the aspect of life, and bring greater awareness in general. It's been a concept that's been stored in the back of my mind for years and helped immensely :smile:




Yes. As the fictional Don Juan Matus always said to Carlos Casteñeda, "Death is my advisor." The reality of our mortality needs to be our constant companion, but not in a fearful way, or else we're just living in denial and LalLa land.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
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Re: Gurdjieff [Re: cez]
    #19518694 - 02/03/14 11:35 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Since you recently also asked about Crowley, here's a quick cut and paste you might enjoy from Tim Leary's _The Game of Life_... The book is incredibly abstract, so it may be unsatisfying.

CROWLEY, GURDJIEFF
EXPOSED AS GENETIC AGENTS
THE ALEISTER CROWLEY TAROT SCHEME IS PRE-EINSTEINIAN-BASED ON THE FIFTH CIRCUIT

Several students of Magic (Brian Barritt, Andy Warhol, Robert Anton Wilson) have commented on synchronlclties between the life and work of Alelster Crowley and the publicized experiences of Dr. Timothy Leary.

Crowley's transmissions were primarily concerned with the Fifth Circuit. Sex-magick. Self-definition as a polymorphous erotic receiver. Somatic control. The tantric union of male-female. The Pan, Dionysus rapture myth. The alchemy of aphrodisiac drugs.
There is evidence to suggest that the evolutionary element called Timothy Leri has unconsciously repeated, step-by-step, the neurogenetic evolution of Crowley and carried his work to the next stage following the explicit Instructions of Crowley. Instructions about the completion of his work.

"In the last pages of his autobiography, Confessions of Alelster Crowley•, the Mage describes an Egyptian document which he believed to contain an important prophetic signal. The name TIMA was assigned to the mysterious transmitter. With this strange reference Crowley goes on to summarize his life's work as being unfinished, particularly his work on the Tarot. Crowley says that his task will be
completed by his successor who will make it more quantitative, scientific and objective." (Brian Barritt)

The cases of Crowley and George Gurdjieff are similar. Both based their work on sexual energies released by neurosomatic drugs (opium, cocaine, hashish) and expressed in aesthetic patterns.


Gurdjieff
Beelzebub's Tales to His Grandson

Both Crowley and Gurdjleff were Masters of Circuit 5 which was the highest point of consciousness and Intelligence possible before the Einsteinian era. Both were also sporadically capable of profound precognitive visions of Circuit VI and higher.

Toward the end of their lives both men lost their baraka; their nervous systems no longer operating as receivers and transmitters of high-energy, new knowleege. There is a certain poignancy in their histories. The lives of both men ended exactly at the time when the discoveries of electronic-atomic-nuclear energies made possible biological longevity and migration from the planet and when the time-dilation implications of accelerated motion were made known. Before the possibility of space-migration there was no apparent point In human life and planetary existence. What could Crowley or Gurdjleff do with the neurosomatic energies they released? Teach others? Play with erotic and interpersonal power? Entertain? Get Involved In all-out risky events that challenged their expanded energies? Shock the mundane? Pass on the primitive version of the message?

Gurdjieff did see clearly the galactic step which awaited humanity. Beelzebub's Tales to His Grandson is one of the great larval time-scripts, a comic, broad, philo- sophic, satirical view of larval humanity from the standpoint of Galactic Intelligence. An amazing pre-view of the Interstellar Age.

CROWLEY:
A BRAIN ALL DRESSED UP
AND NO WHERE TO GO
Crowley's greatest contribution is his version of the Tarot, brilliantly executed by
his Alchemical Mate, Lady Frieda Harris. His Book of Thoth is a fascinating literary tour de force, a colorful, tasty goulash of concepts from every spicy religious magical
tradition loaded on to the Tarot plates. The book allows us to watch one of the most interesting minds of the century juggling neurogenetic concepts. Entertaining, educational, but limited and filled with deliberate or unconscious errors. Crowley's Interpretation of the Tarot Is based on Cabala-the Tree of Life. Whatever its original neurogenetic meaning, the Tree of Life as now presented is a boring larval moral code at the philosophic level of the Boy Scout oath. Consider the usual names for the ten node points of the Tree of Life: Kingdom, crown, foundation,victory, splendor, strength, beauty, mercy, understanding, wisdom. Where, one wonders, is thrift and cleanliness?

On the surface at least, the Cabalistic array seems to the uninitiated to be a Talmudic laryngeal-mind defense of Domesticated Primate morality. 

What is missing from the Crowley Tarot Is the scientific, evolutionary perspective.  Crowley does broadcast an erotic magnificence, a graceful, tawny lasciviousness, a gleaming phallic radiance, a soft hashishine luxury. The Circuit V energy seethes and murmurs; but eventually fades, turned in on itself. Even the most perfect neurosomatic union eventually becomes boring. "Keep me high," She murmured. But rapture  dissolves. Two sweaty bodies, pulled back by larval insecurities, worrying about passports and the rent.

The evolutionary process moves or freezes. Aleister Crowley represents human intelligence at Its transition point. The rapturous body, floating detached from terrestrial-life lines, all wired up and nowhere to go. As he got older, he increasingly amused himself with childish jokes, playing on the "Black Maglck" and "Satanist" Image given to him by vulgar tabloids. Funny, frivolous, futile.
Crowley understood the interstellar goal of human evolution and was bitterly aware of his Imprisonment on the planet. Gravity and the Inability of current technology to reach escape velocity kept him from breaking out. The first four lines of
The Book of the Law file his appeal for release from the custody of gravity:
"1. Had! The manifestation of Nuit.
2. The unveiling of the company of heaven.
3. Every man and every woman Is a star.
4. Help me, o warrior lord of Thebes, In my unveiling before the Children of
Men!"
And throughout the Book of the Law runs the refrain of Nult, the star-goddess,
who represents galactic Intelligence in Crowley's symbology, and who continually calls us home:
"Come forth, 0 children, under the stars and take your fill of love." ... "I am above you and In you." ...
"They shall gather my children into their fold; they shall bring the glory of the stars into the hearts of men." . . .
"Invoke me under my stars! Love is the law, love under will." ...
" I love you! I learn to you I . . . Put on the wings and arouse the coiled splendor
within you: come unto mel"
"To mel To mel ... I am the naked brilliance of the voluptuous night sky. To mel To mel"


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Gurdjieff [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #19520842 - 02/04/14 02:58 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

CosmicJoke said:
Crowley's greatest contribution is his version of the Tarot, brilliantly executed by
his Alchemical Mate, Lady Frieda Harris.




I hate it when people claim other people's work.
it should be Frieda's Tarot
it more looks like Frieda's work than Aleister's.
what a cad!


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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Offlinesadspacemonkey
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Re: Gurdjieff [Re: redgreenvines]
    #19521077 - 02/04/14 03:47 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:


I hate it when people claim other people's work.
it should be Frieda's Tarot
it more looks like Frieda's work than Aleister's.
what a cad!




Lady Frieda Harris is an incredible artist and each card in that deck is a work of art as far as I'm concerned. I don't follow Crowley's work anymore, but I enjoyed that deck while I used it. She did contribute ideas to it from what I remember..


--------------------

"I can't be told by anyone how to live. If I said to the minister 'Move from your home' he would think I was mad." Bushman : Botswana

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Gurdjieff [Re: sadspacemonkey]
    #19521162 - 02/04/14 04:02 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

if she only contributed ideas who drew it.
this is what I mean
on the one hand there is artistic appropriation,
but in such cases it is domination and assumption of credit.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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Offlinesadspacemonkey
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Re: Gurdjieff [Re: redgreenvines]
    #19521227 - 02/04/14 04:14 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
if she only contributed ideas who drew it.
this is what I mean
on the one hand there is artistic appropriation,
but in such cases it is domination and assumption of credit.




I heard he had a horrible reputation of using women's power for his magic them tossing them aside, used and depleted..so it would not surprise me if this was the case. I liked her description of the cards better as well.


--------------------

"I can't be told by anyone how to live. If I said to the minister 'Move from your home' he would think I was mad." Bushman : Botswana

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