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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: the absurdity of child pornography laws. [Re: SneezingPenis]
#8541450 - 06/19/08 04:59 PM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
YawningAnus said: look at prohibition. it is the sole reason that alcohol became so rampant.
all it did was drive up the demand and the price for it... it did nothing to squash consumption.
Correlation is not causation.
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also, I dont see the point in citing societies that are ok with child sex yet dont practice child sex.
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there are no pedophiles in cultures where it is acceptable to have sex with children
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Pedophile An adult who is sexually attracted to a child or children.
Edited by Veritas (06/19/08 05:05 PM)
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: the absurdity of child pornography laws. [Re: Veritas]
#8541490 - 06/19/08 05:07 PM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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So pedophiles are reacting to a perceived scarcity of sex with children?
Not like you to throw in a strawgirl argument. Are you a little bit under-the-weather today?
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
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Re: the absurdity of child pornography laws. [Re: Veritas]
#8541525 - 06/19/08 05:13 PM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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your right, correlation is not causation, but it is acceptable when no other alternative is applicable.
everyone just got thirstier? speak easy's just happened to be the hip place to be seen?
and my point that you quoted above was that there are no pedophiles in societies where child sex is ok.... meaning that we create the label and "disorder" of pedophilia because we find it taboo. it isnt like the american moral framework of human behaviour is the foundation for natural human behaviour. dont you see that the incongruency between real, primal human behaviour and "civilized" behaviour are what is causing mental disorders to stick out?
there is no pedophilia (in the negative sense of the word) in palces that find it to be normal behaviour. it would be like us calling soccer moms some word that denotes mental instability because they drive minivans.
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psilonaut1
mycorrhizal in da hizal



Registered: 06/10/08
Posts: 53
Loc: Houston Tx.
Last seen: 15 years, 5 months
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Re: the absurdity of child pornography laws. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#8541534 - 06/19/08 05:14 PM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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okay i think i am kinda getting this thread. I have three kids BTW. I also consider myself an Anarcho-Socialist. Frankly, Mr. Anus, you picked one hell of a topic to base the conversation off of. I think that is really throwing people off. Man i really hope your not having sexaul thoughts about children. I am just going to assume your not.
If i am understanding the point here..... In western society, not specifically USA but any modern civilization, fear is used to control the mass's. it is happening now with this whole terrorism BS. Frankly though, I am torn when it comes to crime and punishment. I have been in jail. it is no place for people. and considering that i believe that all crime either stems from social ill's or mental illnes' ( yes, some folks are just fucking nuts. they're nothing close to normal(term used very loosely mind you). there are imbalances in the brain. schizophrenia, for example.) locking people up is not going to help them. when they get out of jail,prison what ever, they will still be faced with the same problems that got them there in the first place. But what is the alternative? you really don't think it is ok to go around messing with children do you. that is a problem. you can not compare being molested to a child falling down. first of all the former is a NON consensual activity. the child does not haver the mental capacity's to make a decision as to whether or not they want to partake in sexual activity. the latter is something that happens to every one. its called an accident. children do not get accidentally molested. society has created molesters, murders and other predators. even if by some miracle we start a Utopian society tomorrow it will be decades and generations before all the existing sick people have died off or have been rehabilitated. so what to do? I hear you pointing out the problem but i do not see you giving us a viable alternative. one final point. I am a victim. I did not enjoy being molested. it wasn't fucking fun for me. and i still deal with over twenty five years later. and every time i hear about the NAMBLO fucks it makes my blood boil. If i knew with out a doubt that someone molested my children..............
-------------------- "Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither."
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: the absurdity of child pornography laws. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#8541582 - 06/19/08 05:26 PM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
So pedophiles are reacting to a perceived scarcity of sex with children?
Not like you to throw in a strawgirl argument. Are you a little bit under-the-weather today?
I was making the point that both of the examples you gave could also be explained as reactions to perceived scarcity. Do you think that people who were not attracted to alcohol became so because of prohibition? Likewise, did serious ganja-addicts lose interest because it was made legal?
Laws against sex with children or photos/movies of children in sexually-suggestive poses do not create attraction to children, and elimination of said laws would not end attraction to children.
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: the absurdity of child pornography laws. [Re: psilonaut1]
#8541594 - 06/19/08 05:32 PM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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im not saying that actual child molestation is being overblown. Im pointing out the absurdity of outlawing pictures of such.
there was a case not too long ago of a kid that had just turned 18 that posted or sent some nude pictures of himself to someone else, and he was charged with having child pornography. another case I read was about divorced parents and the father had his weekend with the child and took a picture of his 5 year old son mooning him. the wife used it to gain full custody of the child even though it was evident that there was no molestation occuring.
I also dont agree with you that children cannot make a decision in their sexual exploits. I imagine that everyone here had some sort of sexual encounter with another child before the age of 10. we take sex way too seriously and take it upon ourselves to pound this convulted outlook we have regarding sex, into the childs heads a little before puberty. this idea of "we know whats best for you" is a nice way of saying that you are going to grow up and live the same miserable life I did. recently NPR did a show on two 10 year olds that are transgender... what about those kids on the HBO special that are 3rd graders stating their sexual preference? what about 7th grade girls dressing like sluts? you want to say that these kids dont know enough about sex to make a "right" decision, but seems to me they know plenty about it.
on a side note regarding this... it is this type of "family first" self righteous mentality that ignites this fervor. "I brought a child into this world so you all better snap in line and limit yourselves for the safety of my child!"
bottom line, it harms no one if someone looks at CGI of child porn. it harms no one if you look at pictures of women posing as children. why make that illegal?
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psilonaut1
mycorrhizal in da hizal



Registered: 06/10/08
Posts: 53
Loc: Houston Tx.
Last seen: 15 years, 5 months
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Re: the absurdity of child pornography laws. [Re: SneezingPenis]
#8541705 - 06/19/08 06:05 PM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
YawningAnus said:
I also dont agree with you that children cannot make a decision in their sexual exploits. I imagine that everyone here had some sort of sexual encounter with another child before the age of 10.
on the contrary. scientific evidence has shown that the human brain continues to grow and develop well into a persons 20's. there for, If a person is not capable of really considering the consequences to there actions, there actions need to be governed by some one else, like a parent. for example. my teen age daughter believes she can drive. she knows the basic workings of an automobile and has some knowledge of the traffic laws. yet because i know here maturity level, and most often lack there of, i really do not believe she should be operating a vehicle. a child does not have the mental capacity to realize all the consequences about sex. I also realize that in USA the line that says a person is capable of making adult decisions is blurred. 16 to dive, 18 to vote, 21 to drink etc...in Texas the consensual age for sex is 17 btw.
a couple of ten year olds exploring each others bodies is not the same as a thirty year old man exploring there body's.
as far as how this pertains to a CGI or photo of a grown adult woman portrayed as a child. those activity's perpetrate the idea that sex with a child is ok. serial killers never just start killing lots of people. normally they begin with small animals and then hurting people. often then leading to peeping or other sexual deviance. eventually there desires grow and poof 10 people are dead.
also, if you feel that child molestation is not ok, then why would you feel like media depicting children in a sexaul manor should be accepted?
-------------------- "Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither."
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: the absurdity of child pornography laws. [Re: psilonaut1]
#8541727 - 06/19/08 06:09 PM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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i am about to have to run a show right now, so I dont have time to fully reply to your post, I will in about two hours I hope...
Quote:
a couple of ten year olds exploring each others bodies is not the same as a thirty year old man exploring there body's.
so why are two ten year olds competent enough about sex to experiment, yet not enough with a 30 year old? and why do we find the former ok, almost "cute", and the latter horribly disgusting?
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psilonaut1
mycorrhizal in da hizal



Registered: 06/10/08
Posts: 53
Loc: Houston Tx.
Last seen: 15 years, 5 months
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Re: the absurdity of child pornography laws. [Re: SneezingPenis]
#8541773 - 06/19/08 06:25 PM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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YawningAnus said: i am about to have to run a show right now, so I dont have time to fully reply to your post, I will in about two hours I hope...
Quote:
a couple of ten year olds exploring each others bodies is not the same as a thirty year old man exploring there body's.
so why are two ten year olds competent enough about sex to experiment, yet not enough with a 30 year old? and why do we find the former ok, almost "cute", and the latter horribly disgusting?
are you fucking for real man!!!!! god damn dude if i have to spell that out for you, you have some serious freakin problems. I am so done with this thread...........
-------------------- "Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither."
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: the absurdity of child pornography laws. [Re: Veritas]
#8541853 - 06/19/08 06:55 PM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
I was making the point that
You were presenting an argument that I never made. This, as you know, is a strawman. I showed facts counter to your statement about illegality not attracting illegal activity and said nothing about kiddie porn.
You should know better. 
Alcohol use unsurprisingly increased shortly after prohibition was repealed (a spike), then settled to a lower usage then pre-prohibition.
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blewmeanie




Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 28,984
Loc:
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Re: the absurdity of child pornography laws. [Re: psilonaut1]
#8541890 - 06/19/08 07:01 PM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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psilonaut1 said: as far as how this pertains to a CGI or photo of a grown adult woman portrayed as a child. those activity's perpetrate the idea that sex with a child is ok.
So the idea is a crime as well? Hmmmm you seem to be suggesting that even thinking about the act is a crime.....the actual thought itself. Like some sort of crime of ideas...or thinking........of thought.....a thought<<<<<<<<<<crime thought<<<<<<<crime thought<<<<crime thought<<crime THOUGHTCRIME oh shit!
"Thoughtcrime does not entail death: thoughtcrime is death."
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: the absurdity of child pornography laws. [Re: psilonaut1]
#8541916 - 06/19/08 07:08 PM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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as far as how this pertains to a CGI or photo of a grown adult woman portrayed as a child. those activity's perpetrate the idea that sex with a child is ok.
Extending this silly thought-police idea leads to the banning of films and burning of books that depict murder. There goes my Agatha Christy collection.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Middleman

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
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Re: the absurdity of child pornography laws. [Re: Diploid]
#8541932 - 06/19/08 07:13 PM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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Have you seen the new Onion Movie where they have a murder mystery party with a rape instead? Funny.
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psilonaut1
mycorrhizal in da hizal



Registered: 06/10/08
Posts: 53
Loc: Houston Tx.
Last seen: 15 years, 5 months
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Re: the absurdity of child pornography laws. [Re: blewmeanie]
#8542440 - 06/19/08 09:28 PM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
blewmeanie said:
Quote:
psilonaut1 said: as far as how this pertains to a CGI or photo of a grown adult woman portrayed as a child. those activity's perpetrate the idea that sex with a child is ok.
So the idea is a crime as well? Hmmmm you seem to be suggesting that even thinking about the act is a crime.....the actual thought itself. Like some sort of crime of ideas...or thinking........of thought.....a thought<<<<<<<<<<crime thought<<<<<<<crime thought<<<<crime thought<<crime THOUGHTCRIME oh shit!
"Thoughtcrime does not entail death: thoughtcrime is death."
Awfully nice of you to quote me after I had said I am done with this thread. Now i feel obliged to defend myself........
I never said, nor implied that such actions should be illegal. I simply said that it is a precursor to a far worse mental condition. And a person who is involving them selves in getting off to little girls need some kind of help. I have implied in a previous post in this thread I do not agree necessarily with putting people in little boxs. you should read the entire thread before you go off half cocked armed with some old, over used Orwelling attack.
so you were simply attempting to get a rise out of me or are you actually trying to defend child pornagrphy?
-------------------- "Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither."
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blewmeanie




Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 28,984
Loc:
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Re: the absurdity of child pornography laws. [Re: psilonaut1]
#8542514 - 06/19/08 09:49 PM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
psilonaut1 said:
Quote:
blewmeanie said:
Quote:
psilonaut1 said: as far as how this pertains to a CGI or photo of a grown adult woman portrayed as a child. those activity's perpetrate the idea that sex with a child is ok.
So the idea is a crime as well? Hmmmm you seem to be suggesting that even thinking about the act is a crime.....the actual thought itself. Like some sort of crime of ideas...or thinking........of thought.....a thought<<<<<<<<<<crime thought<<<<<<<crime thought<<<<crime thought<<crime THOUGHTCRIME oh shit!
"Thoughtcrime does not entail death: thoughtcrime is death."
Awfully nice of you to quote me after I had said I am done with this thread. Now i feel obliged to defend myself........
I never said, nor implied that such actions should be illegal. I simply said that it is a precursor to a far worse mental condition. And a person who is involving them selves in getting off to little girls need some kind of help. I have implied in a previous post in this thread I do not agree necessarily with putting people in little boxs. you should read the entire thread before you go off half cocked armed with some old, over used Orwelling attack.
so you were simply attempting to get a rise out of me or are you actually trying to defend child pornagrphy?
I do not agree with child pornography, but I will defend to the death your right right to pornographicate my.......er your children!hehe 
While I do believe trying to ban a though is absurd, I was only trying to bring a little humor to the child porn thread. Emotionally active topics sometimes need a giggle to soften the content.
Oh and thanks, I will happily be using the term cock armed at any opportunity from here on out.
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psilonaut1
mycorrhizal in da hizal



Registered: 06/10/08
Posts: 53
Loc: Houston Tx.
Last seen: 15 years, 5 months
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Re: the absurdity of child pornography laws. [Re: blewmeanie]
#8544094 - 06/20/08 11:41 AM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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Your right that this is an extremely emotional topic. So many people can personalize it that i feel much empathy should be used when discussing such things. like i said initially, maybe child pornography wasn't the best anecdote for the conversation. I truly believe that consensual activity's of all forms should not be criminalized. I also feel that a person should have the mental capability's to make such decisions.
-------------------- "Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither."
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TheHappieHippies
Uber-Goober



Registered: 05/12/08
Posts: 814
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Re: the absurdity of child pornography laws. [Re: psilonaut1]
#8544439 - 06/20/08 01:19 PM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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I had a disposable camera at the birth of my second son, a nurse took some pictures (at my request) of him coming out. I dropped the film off at Walgreens, and they REFUSED to give me one that had depicted both my vagina and his penis as he was exiting my body, saying that it was a "Possible sexual scenario" due to the presence of both adult and child genetalia...
RIDICULOUS!!
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: the absurdity of child pornography laws. [Re: blewmeanie]
#8544544 - 06/20/08 01:49 PM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
blewmeanie said:
Quote:
psilonaut1 said: as far as how this pertains to a CGI or photo of a grown adult woman portrayed as a child. those activity's perpetrate the idea that sex with a child is ok.
So the idea is a crime as well? Hmmmm you seem to be suggesting that even thinking about the act is a crime.....the actual thought itself. Like some sort of crime of ideas...or thinking........of thought.....a thought<<<<<<<<<<crime thought<<<<<<<crime thought<<<<crime thought<<crime THOUGHTCRIME oh shit!
"Thoughtcrime does not entail death: thoughtcrime is death."
Thought is often a crime or element of one. The problem with many laws, child porn laws included, are the lack of scienter, imo. We need more thought crime if this is what your saying.
ANyways "you seem to be suggesting that even thinking about the act is a crime". No, he was refering to having a CGI image of child pornography that you believe to be depicting child pornography.
In any case, you can drop the pretense. This is allready a crime.
As is merely thinking about selling drugs, making drugs, or whatever, if you decide to do it.
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psilonaut1
mycorrhizal in da hizal



Registered: 06/10/08
Posts: 53
Loc: Houston Tx.
Last seen: 15 years, 5 months
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Re: the absurdity of child pornography laws. [Re: TheHappieHippies]
#8544624 - 06/20/08 02:08 PM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
TheHappieHippies said: I had a disposable camera at the birth of my second son, a nurse took some pictures (at my request) of him coming out. I dropped the film off at Walgreens, and they REFUSED to give me one that had depicted both my vagina and his penis as he was exiting my body, saying that it was a "Possible sexual scenario" due to the presence of both adult and child genetalia...
RIDICULOUS!!
ya your right. i think the pic in the Op is fine too. Walgreens is a privately owned business and they should be able to make what ever decisions they want to concerning there business. If you don't like there ethics use a different store. they shouldn't be entitled by law to a damned thing IMHO. walgreens and walmart for that matter have refused to develop sexually explicit photos for me in the past. we have three polaroids and we love or digi cams. 
let me give a different anecdote that is every bit as extreme or at least as controversial as pornography. Years ago some friends of mine,(no really, this time i'm fo real ) were putting together a performance art show in Dallas. This would be a show involving people doing body suspension. Hooks in the skin from which people suspend. Adult people for the record. for the advertisement for this show they used my friends little baby boy. He couldn't have been more than six months old. They took the little guy and held him over A stainless steal table and sat his little bare ass on it. of course the table was cold so the baby made a horrid face and extended all his limbs spread eagle like. They then took the digital image and CGed hooks into the baby's chest so it looked like he was actually be hung from the skin in his chest. Just so happens that they release the ad during child abuse prevention week. Needless to say there was a huge uproar over the pic. the police got involved, the DA did an investigation. they talked about taking the kids away from my friend. a bunch of shit. I personally have many pics of my kids in the bath tub, them naked as infants and toddlers. I do not see any harm in that. I do feel on the other hand that there is a line between between pictures that intentionally portray a child in a sexually explicit manor and a harmless photo of you child. BTW CGI's of children IS NOT ILLEGAL. Real people pretending to be teens in a sexually explicit manor is.
-------------------- "Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither."
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blewmeanie




Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 28,984
Loc:
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Re: the absurdity of child pornography laws. [Re: psilonaut1]
#8545033 - 06/20/08 04:15 PM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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- Thought is often a crime or element of one. The problem with many laws, child porn laws included, are the lack of scienter, imo.
The problem with child porn laws is scienter? (intent) Im not sure I follow what your getting at.
- We need more thought crime if this is what your saying.
Again, Im not sure what your saying, I seem to be misunderstanding you. Is that a statement, as in we need more laws banning the thought of an act? Maybe I'm having a tard moment, but Im just not getting it.
- No, he was referring to having a CGI image of child pornography that you believe to be depicting child pornography.
When I asked him why CGI (is it even a crime?) or pretending should be a crime as well he stated.
"those activity's perpetrate the idea that sex with a child is ok."
Maybe you missed my other post the whole thought crime thing was just me being dramatic, and trying to lighten the mood a little. Anything involving the abuse of children can be pretty emotionally volatile, making it hard to have a rational discussion. Sometimes you just need a little kookyness to mellow everyone out.
- In any case, you can drop the pretense. This is already a crime.
As is merely thinking about selling drugs, making drugs, or whatever, if you decide to do it.
It can be pretty hard to tell sometimes reading what someone wrote, but maybe your were being sarcastic,(thats what this guy is for )but thinking about "selling or making drugs" is certainly not a crime.
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