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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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Re: Alien Communication [Re: Swami]
    #2791828 -

You say that the aliens wouldn't understand our concepts of things that they didn't do themselves, e.g. sex, food preperation etc. BUT just take a look at us humans, while we ourselves are not photosynthetic organisms, we do understand the processes which happen in a photosynthetic organism. While we don't make our houses out of threads of silk coming out of our ass, we do understand the concept of that when a spider does it. We ourselves do not reproduce asexually, but we can conceptualise a life without the feelings of love and sex. etc. etc.

Humans are pretty intelligent creatures. We are able to analyse things indirectly and we can figure out underlying systems behind things. We can handle abstract concepts and use metaphors / isomorphisms to explain things to ourselves.

I think that it is true that there are conceivable life forms which we could simply just not communicate with period. But I also think it is possible that we could encounter another species of similar level of intelligence that we could establish quite an extensive communications system. Like that other dude was saying about maths, thats a good point there.

OK so I'm not saying we definatley could communicate with any given alien but hey you can't say its impossible either.

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Re: Alien Communication [Re: Swami]
    #2791843 -

Quote:
I would bet heavily that it still resisted and squirmed when you tried to administer it. Yes or no?



you'd lose
his eyes never left mine and he didn't flinch when the needle was inserted that put him down.

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Re: Alien Communication [Re: zee_werp]
    #2791850 -

We ourselves do not reproduce asexually, but we can conceptualise a life without the feelings of love and sex. etc. etc.
Methinks you miss the point. We will pretend that an intelligent (how we would ever determine that I do not know) asexual alien creature understands our sexual bilogical process. So what? Now explain to it so that it would truly understand, why we fantasize non-stop about sex, kill others or sex, destroy empires for sex, write music for sex (and love if you will), build entire industries (clothes, cosmetics, plastic surgery, shaving implements, hair fashion); etc. It would NEVER make even the slightest sense of what you are trying to communicate.

Humans are pretty intelligent creatures. We are able to analyse things indirectly and we can figure out underlying systems behind things. We can handle abstract concepts and use metaphors / isomorphisms to explain things to ourselves.
Uh huh, that is why no one is able to even remotely explain or communicate the DMT realm to another - no common framework.

But I also think it is possible that we could encounter another species of similar level of intelligence...
That does not make sense. How would one test for a similar level except by administering a human IQ test?

...that we could establish quite an extensive communications system. Like that other dude was saying about maths, thats a good point there.
That is a HUGE, HUGE assumption coming from watching too many old Outer Limits shows. There is no reason to believe any other race would use mathematics. Do dolphins, chimps, ants or plants communicate with numbers?

OK so I'm not saying we definatley could communicate with any given alien but hey you can't say its impossible either.
Of course I can and I did!


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Alien Communication [Re: Swami]
    #2791862 -

Quote:
Your psychic (or analytical) powers, like most here, are severely lacking. Even I am amazed at how often posters are totally wrong; worse than chance actually.



what do you mean, i just felt sad when i read it? and asked you a question.
am i wrong for asking a question?
ive never claimed psychic powers and my 'my analytical powers' were simply based on a common procedure in linguistic analysis where meaning is discerned or sought from examining the quantity of usage of certain words.
when it comes to the word 'alien' you seem to write it a lot, more than anybody else here, hence i pondered your enthusiasm for the subject.

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Re: Alien Communication [Re: mr crisper]
    #2791870 -

you'd lose
I would care to put that to the test as always.

his eyes never left mine and he didn't flinch when the needle was inserted that put him down.
So euthanizing a very sick or terminally ill animal is the same as force-feeding medicine to a healthy vibrant animal?


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Alien Communication [Re: Swami]
    #2791877 -

why would you force feed medicine to healthy vibrant animal?

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Re: Alien Communication [Re: Swami]
    #2791879 -

Quote:
I would care to put that to the test as always


better go get yourself a pussy
cat

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Re: Alien Communication [Re: mr crisper]
    #2791890 -

why would you force feed medicine to healthy vibrant animal?

Because I am a sadist.  :rolleyes:

Pets can have worms and still be relatively unaffected outwardly. ANY PET OWNER WOULD KNOW THAT!  :smirk:


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Alien Communication [Re: mr crisper]
    #2791894 -

what do you mean, i just felt sad when i read it? and asked you a question.
am i wrong for asking a question?

Ask away. Why would you feel sad unless you were forming a (false) picture in your mind? Let me rephrase: your empathetic powers suck. Is that better?  :cool:


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Alien Communication [Re: Swami]
    #2791921 -

Quote:
your empathetic powers suck


thanx swami, what other mental powers of mine suck? i'll focus em right on your knob, all week if i can. if you get a stiffie, i'm responsible!

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Re: Alien Communication [Re: Swami]
    #2791936 -

Quote:
Stage of evolution has no bearing on frame of reference.



So you are saying that however far we evolve we will not be able to have meaningful communication with alien lifeforms?


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Always Smi2le

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Re: Alien Communication [Re: GazzBut]
    #2792814 -

Yes, that is what I am saying.

Humans (the aliens to other life forms on earth) are not any more able (and may be less able) to communicate with a Giant Redwood than a squirrel.

Sharks have evolved for 50,000,000 years. Go tell a great white not to bite you.

Ants have evolved (albeit quite slowly) for several hundred million years. Guess we must be close to a communication break-through any time soon.

Don't forget, that we have not EVEN YET COVERED some basic (and probably false) assumptions about alien life-forms. If we are perceived as neither food nor threat, we may be ignored totally. A desire to communicate with other life-forms may very well be soley a human trait.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Alien Communication [Re: Swami]
    #2792825 -

Swami said:
Humans (the aliens to other life forms on earth) are not any more able (and may be less able) to communicate with a Giant Redwood than a squirrel.


Incorrect. Body language is an excellent means of interspecies communication. Of course it can't communicate complex ideas, but it can communicate aggression, passiveness, fear, friendliness, etc.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: Alien Communication [Re: silversoul7]
    #2792854 -

Swami said:

Humans (the aliens to other life forms on earth) are not any more able (and may be less able) to communicate with a Giant Redwood than a squirrel.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Incorrect. Body language is an excellent means of interspecies communication. Of course it can't communicate complex ideas, but it can communicate aggression, passiveness, fear, friendliness, etc.

Incorrect? That would be the first time ever, if true. Please explain how a Giant Redwood acknowledges and responds to body language.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Alien Communication [Re: Swami]
    #2792864 -

Swami said:
Swami said:

Humans (the aliens to other life forms on earth) are not any more able (and may be less able) to communicate with a Giant Redwood than a squirrel.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Incorrect. Body language is an excellent means of interspecies communication. Of course it can't communicate complex ideas, but it can communicate aggression, passiveness, fear, friendliness, etc.

Incorrect? That would be the first time ever, if true. Please explain how a Giant Redwood acknowledges and responds to body language.


That is exactly my point. A squirrel could understand body language, but a Giant Redwood could not(at least as far as we know). Therefore, humans are more capable of communication with a squirrel than with a Giant Redwood, contrary to your statement.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: Alien Communication [Re: silversoul7]
    #2792919 -

Humans (the aliens to other life forms on earth) are not any more able (and may be less able) to communicate with a Giant Redwood than a squirrel.

In long-hand:

Humans (the aliens to other life forms on earth) are not any more able (and may be less able) to communicate with a Giant Redwood than a squirrel is able to communicate with a Giant Redwood. (Implied using common laws of grammar)

Otherwise to fit your interpretation, it would have read:

Humans (the aliens to other life forms on earth) are not any more able (and may be less able) to communicate with a Giant Redwood than WITH a squirrel.

After this meaningless miscommunication :grin: between like-minded people, one can see how E-Z it would be to communicate with other species - NOT!


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Alien Communication [Re: Swami]
    #2793074 -

you dont think that aliens that travel across the vast universe wont know math of anykind?

if i yell at, or kick a dog it gets scared, or reacts in some other way. its an extreme form of communication, but communication the less.

why are zen masters known for striking their pupils? i seriously want to know your take on it.


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if you can't find the truth right where you are, where else do you expect to find it?

this is the purpose

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Re: Alien Communication [Re: CleverName]
    #2793417 -

You dont think that aliens that travel across the vast universe wont know math of anykind?
This was not mentioned anywhere in the post.

if i yell at, or kick a dog it gets scared, or reacts in some other way. its an extreme form of communication, but communication the less.
Yes, animals are aware of other animals and the threats they may pose. Big deal. The only idea communicated is I want to hurt you.

why are zen masters known for striking their pupils?
Because they had a mosquito in their eye. Next...


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Alien Communication [Re: Swami]
    #2793543 -

Communication. More with definitions...aye... or is that interpretation.

This conversation makes me wonder if we really "communicate" at all. We share information... This information is in the form of text via internet. Devices we as a species have created.

Our fears sometimes trigger responses inside our bodies and vice versa which cause things to change with how we project ourselves, which then in turn are picked up by other living organisms.

DNA communicates with cells.

Aliens could very well be communicating with people using advanced technology for purposes we do not know. But because we dont have the means to objectively proove to one another such an occurance, we sit here having discussions about the plausability of alien to human communication.

As was pointed out already, there exist a POSSIBILITY for the desire to seek out different species.

You say, if a civilization was advanced enough to even be able to reach earth or at least try and communicate, what would be the point? Information. Isnt information always the point?

We would be an alien civilization to them. Why would they not be concerned with learning? If we truely are alien, wouldnt we have an objective from their standpoint as a means for information?


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What?

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Re: Alien Communication [Re: Zero7a1]
    #2793621 -

Why would they not be concerned with learning?

Why would you assume they have this human trait?


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The proof is in the pudding.

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